Melisski Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I can see you've had differing opinions on this one, but in my experience, yes, it works. I began teaching Diesel on a flat collar and in a low distraction area, he was fine (no pulling, although he does wander around - mind you I am only talking about going for walks). However, when we began formal obedience training when he was 6mths old (high distraction) he started pulling all the time and honestly it became really hard to not get frustrated with him. I got him a BlackDog head collar (my obedience club has all the BlackDog products) and it worked a treat. He didn't sulk like I thought he would and started to respond to subtle changes in direction etc. Now, six months later, I no longer use the head collar - for either walks or formal training. He walks to heel during obedience, and I allow him to wander when on walks within the length of my 'walking' lead (about 2.5metres). I found that it probably helped that I only used it for formal training, as well. I don't want a dog that constantly walks at heel and it seemed to make him realise that training and walks were two different things. I'm not saying the head collar fixed it - rather it allowed me to manage his pulling until I was able to train him to heel properly without it. I think if I hadn't got the head collar I would've got so shitty at him for pulling I probably wouldn't have continued with the obedience. All up, he probably only wore it for 2 months, then 2 months of head collar on but lead attached to flat collar (slowly increasing the level of distractions) and then a further two months of 'proofing' him to heel in the correct position etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Now, six months later, I no longer use the head collar - for either walks or formal training. K9: I guess what Im trying to get at is, you may have some success with your dog, but as Im talking about general results with hundreds of dogs, its a littel different. For example, last nite someone brought a long a beautiful Lab, very exciteable & a leash puller, with halter... The lady had been trying to sort this problem, not sure how long, maybe not as long as six months. Her dog lunged, pulled etc etc... I fitted a martingale collar & the dog stoppped pulling for me & then the owner in under 3 minutes.... Distraction was added & the dog was able to be handled with one finger after that. These results arent outstanding, they are typical... As I have mentioned, many dogs dont like them, many shut down, many are highly distracted & the risks of injury to the dog are higher than I am happy with. This is not the same with other tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Head collars are a management tool. They won't teach your dog to walk well without pulling. TRAINING does that. I see dogs at my obedience club pulling on everything including head collars and sporn harnesses. The key is to train your dog. If you don't you'll still get hauled along - difference is a head collar will place a lot of strain on your dog's neck when he does pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melisski Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 (edited) I had originally had Diesel on a limited slip style collar, but it had absolutely no effect whatsoever. I think, for a lot of people (like me) I essentially needed to be able to control him before I could work on the problem. Mind you, I never intended to continue to use the head collar so maybe that makes a difference as well? Essentially I did only use it as a management tool rather than a quick fix. I fitted a martingale collar & the dog stoppped pulling for me & then the owner in under 3 minutes....Distraction was added & the dog was able to be handled with one finger after that. These results arent outstanding, they are typical... Problem is, the majority of dog owners have no idea and that's when they use a head collar as a quick fix, and don't actually put any further effort or training into the dog. Now, if you wanna come to my house and train my pup to walk nicely on a lead, I'd be very grateful she's a terror. Have you got any more articles on actual leash training etc?? Or should I just drop her off at your house and come back later?? Having said that, are you planning on doing any seminars around the ACT region any time? Plllllllleeeassssseee? ETA: Sorry for hijacking your thread, miss whippy Edited February 9, 2006 by Melisski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I had originally had Diesel on a limited slip style collar, but it had absolutely no effect whatsoever. K9: any tool is entirely dependant on the user though... Now, if you wanna come to my house and train my pup to walk nicely on a lead, I'd be very grateful laugh.gif she's a terror. Have you got any more articles on actual leash training etc?? Or should I just drop her off at your house and come back later?? K9: I have articles they accompany the lessons I do, lol I dont take dogs in for training, because its the people that need it more than the dog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 K9: There was a couple of people talking about setting one up, if there is interest I will be there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffles Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 (edited) Princess has always pulled (walked on a chain), and beings that she is only 10kgs lighter than myself could sometimes cause a problem. I was going to try a halti (or the like) but didnt like the idea of pulling on her head so thought I'd give her a go on a Martingale (black dog). She is doing much better, still holds the lead taught but isnt actually pulling, if that makes any sense! Miss whippy I'd try a few different things and see what gives you the best response but as others are saying its not necessarily going to stop her pulling on a flat collar. just my 2cents Edited February 9, 2006 by Ruffles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemibabe Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Ok Shelby and I have had success today walking on a flat collar without pulling WITHOUT the HALTI!!!!!! I did the never ever rule...where you never ever walk forward on a tight lead. It took 15minutes to get to the park which is about a 3 minute walk normally... But Shelby soon realised that we go when she stops pulling I praised her every time we moved on loose leash, and stopped on a tight leash. It took us about 5 minutes to come back Yay!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 (edited) Thread Title:Â Replying to Head Collars - Do They Get Your Dog To Walk Well? It's the work YOU do (technique etc.) that achieves the results. The equipment you use affects/effects the communication of your work, to the dog. The head collar is generally used as a control tool, not a tool of communication. IMO, the head collar provides fast management (ie control) but slower training results. But, for the more novice handler, the head collar has proven useful in providing control to an owner where it perhaps wasn't possible for the owner to obtain before. Having the control might at least avail the owner the opportunity to apply behaviour modification methods and/or desensitisation techniques where they before couldn't. One of the biggest 'risks' is that many people do not seek to learn to fit and apply the head collar properly and the other biggest 'risk' is that people often stay on the head collar longer than would be necessary or elect not to go that extra distance by working to wean off the head collar. This is where, IMO, any behaviour modification program begins to slow down even further. IMO, if the owner is not hindered by weakness of limb or other physical limitations (and even then, there are other, better choices of equipment), there are better training tools that will communicate more clearly to the dog and hasten a training/behaviour modification program much more efficiently. Edited February 9, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 K9 the reason I say almost is that we have not completed the process of taking it off all the time yet, we are in effect half way through training him Before we started training with the head collar I couldn't even walk him ( and he was only 7 months old, but big) on my own. Now I can walk him without a head collar, in reality even when there are distractions he will walk without the head collar but we are just refining his skills now so that he knows NOT to get distracted. I do put it on him sometimes if I am going somewhere that I know the distractions will be MASSIVE such as the local market but that is more for my peace of mind given that I often have Sascha and my toddler in tow as well. The reality is that we were successful in transferring him back to a flat collar(not even a choker), BUT I think it is because we weren't actually using the head collar as the training tool, we were doing the training and the head collar simply allowed us to control the problem behaviour while we retrained him. At the moment I don't actually own a head collar as it got eaten by Sascha about a month ago I haven't rushed out to buy a new one yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Ok Shelby and I have had success today walking on a flat collar without pulling WITHOUT the HALTI!!!!!! well done you two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemibabe Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Ok Shelby and I have had success today walking on a flat collar without pulling WITHOUT the HALTI!!!!!! well done you two Thanks Rusky Thought I was invisible for a while there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 (edited) K9 the reason I say almost is that we have not completed the process of taking it off all the time yet, we are in effect half way through training him Before we started training with the head collar I couldn't even walk him ( and he was only 7 months old, but big) on my own. Now I can walk him without a head collar .... Fantastic, KC ... it's great you've used the head collar to what seems its fullest potential. I think what K9 (if I dare to speak for him! ) and I are driving at is that we have trained dogs (small through to very huge; shy through to confident and even over the top; young through to old; little through to a lot of past experience in pulling; etc.) to not pull on the lead in the space of minutes. The 'reliability' component of "not pulling" on the lead under distraction might take a few sessions with some, but the process is very quick and the dogs remain positive, motivated and happy. The equipment we use does not take the time a head collar takes to be properly 'introduced' and, when the dog yields a loose lead, the aversive is removed, whereas, in a head collar, it remains - this is more particularly true when dogs do not appreciate wearing the head collar, but resign themselves to it all the same. You'll see by my earlier post that I suggest there may be circumstances where a head collar might assist an owner overcome initial difficulties (and if that alone inspires an owner to work to resolve the dog's issues, then better than not ). It's just that we ... or at least "I" (K9 may or may not agree) see how 'walking on a loose lead' can be established much more efficiently, which is, of course, better for both dog and owner. Edited February 9, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I agree entirely Erny, I have trained a number of dogs and have been able to train all without resorting to a head collar (martingale at the most severe) however Beau was large, stubborn and not long after we got him I discovered I was pregnant and it was important that we controlled the initial problem behaviour quickly as I wasn't able to reprimand him on the choker as we had been up until then. Beau is quite happy to wear the head collar which probably made the difference in our case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baileyb Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 A halti/head collar can sometimes be the difference between taking your dog out for a walk or leaving him at home. I have been able to wean mine off the haltis most of the time but still use them when we are going for a really long "on lead" walk. Some people are dead against them and others love them, so what ever is best for you and your dog is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cactus Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 my first dog learned not to pull by wearing a halti- she wasn't a horror puller though, and now is consistently perfect for me wearing her flat collar. 2nd dog is a horror puller and a whole other story.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now