Steve K9Pro Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 K9: OK I will add some answrs here but your not going to correct your problem... The problem is that you need to remove some of the pups other places of satisfaction... M: Oh was she worn out by the end of the day or what ;) at 10 pm she basically walked off to the bedroom got in her crate by herself and collapsed K9: then you trained too long, she has to finish the session dyiung for another go at the ball.... Small training sessions... & if you tell me this was a small training session then it needs to be timed when the dog isnt so tired... M: so I did few helicopters on lead as that seemed to work in the past than got home tied her up to the dining table and off she went yanking the table few times. Not ideal but at least she did it few times K9: ok so you do nothing but this until she hits the end of the tie out all the time... Dogs dont learn in one rep... More helicopters on lead inside, those that have been to my place will know how long my living room is, well for Ms Divani to drop the toy it takes for me to walk 27 times the lenght of the room there and back. K9: ok, helicopter blades dont travel in straight lines, they go round in circles, it cant be dont in a straight line... Than we had a theraputic visit of a friend with a child and Im pleased to say that after a while both the child and the dog ended up on the sofa cuddling. K9: I wonder if the dog could choose cuddling on the lounge with a child or chasing the ball, which would it choose? Neutralisation is the key to a high end dog... How do I know when to stop the ball chasing activity, the 3x3x3x7 rule I understand but how do I know if I got a desired amount of drive developed? K9: 3 weeks, of 3 times per day, 3 minutes per time 7 days per week is a guide, the other part of the rule is that you do nothing else. No dog parks, other toys, kids, no obience, playing with other dogs, walks, off leash romps etc... If you are still doing all of these things, the chances of developing the dogs drive are slim to none. This method is a professional dog training method that yields very high results very fast, but if you do only some of the steps you will get only some of the results.. You must do it exactly as described if you want those results.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 K9: 3 weeks, of 3 times per day, 3 minutes per time 7 days per week is a guide, the other part of the rule is that you do nothing else.No dog parks, other toys, kids, no obience, playing with other dogs, walks, off leash romps etc... If you are still doing all of these things, the chances of developing the dogs drive are slim to none. so what does the dog do all the other time? Crate/pen for the other 23 hours and 51 minutes a day? No bedding as well? Re child - had to do that as I have noticed that my dog was affraid of kids, Id rather have the dog have a positive value to the child than negative, if Im not commited enough to make the child a neutral value to the dog. K9: then you trained too long, she has to finish the session dyiung for another go at the ball.... she was and she was hitting the collar on a tie out not ONCE and wanted the ball more at the end of the session that I did at 7pm she was tired with other activities - such as the child interaction later at night. K9: I wonder if the dog could choose cuddling on the lounge with a child or chasing the ball, which would it choose? ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 (edited) M: so what does the dog do all the other time? Crate/pen for the other 23 hours and 51 minutes a day? K9: you only have 9 minutes per day for your dog? If you mean drive training is only 9 minutes, you can do more sessions, thats the minimum.. & this is only for three weeks... Re child - had to do that as I have noticed that my dog was affraid of kids, Id rather have the dog have a positive value to the child than negative, if Im not commited enough to make the child a neutral value to the dog. K9: not committed enough? K9: Neutralisation is the key to a high end dog... & This method is a professional dog training method that yields very high results very fast, but if you do only some of the steps you will get only some of the results.. & You must do it exactly as described if you want those results.... K9: Seems you need some more theory on this method... ;) Edited July 6, 2006 by K9 Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 (edited) K9: you only have 9 minutes per day for your dog? If you mean drive training is only 9 minutes, you can do more sessions, thats the minimum..& this is only for three weeks... I have asked what does the dog do when I dont do stuff with it - such as while Im at work for the 10 hours of every day. She will find ways of satysfying herself unless I cut out the trees, and concrete the yard there will be things there to chase, look at, bark at, dig etc. K9: Seems you need some more theory on this method... ;) Im a practial type of a person... - Id much more preffer a demo becouse I have heard the theory several times and obviously dont get it, such as in this example No dog parks, other toys, kids, no obience, playing with other dogs, walks, off leash romps etc... K9: you only have 9 minutes per day for your dog? leaves me cuddling her on the sofa... or doing more sessions, which she might not be genetically designed to do. I might not be able to get 3 minutes out of her to start with. Edited July 6, 2006 by myszka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 K9: these questions are all theory? Your right you need a demo... lol [email protected] for bookings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillian Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 K9: Neutralisation is the key to a high end dog... Just how do you neutralise a dog? No dog parks, other toys, kids, no obience, playing with other dogs, walks, off leash romps etc... My fella just might jump the fence or dig a million holes - all out of sheer boredom!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Just how do you neutralise a dog? do a search on a Socialisation and Neutralisation subject done by K9 heaps of info there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillian Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 do a search on a Socialisation and Neutralisation subject done by K9 heaps of info there. ta myszka - will do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbbb Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 I have been following this thread as I am planning to get my own little bundle of terror in the next year or so.... Ok, so you do drive training 3 weeks, of 3 times per day, 3 minutes per time 7 days per week. The pup should have no walks, obedience, play or toys the rest of the time, so that YOU are the best thing in the world. Is the theory that the 3 times a day drive session will tire the pup out enough to not need other stimulation? (like the pup will sleep or be calm the rest of the time?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 (edited) This doesn't tire them out it satisfies their drive (prey) so they are more relaxed. They can still run around the backyard by themselves. It worked on my GSP who is normally salivating for a walk, if I missed a day. Doing this TID, she was relaxed and happy. My pup, cyclone Bruno, did the same and also happily stayed at home. Magic ;) Edited July 6, 2006 by BellasPerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 How much time a day do you spend on it BP? What age is you puppy, do you do anything other than the drive developement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 (edited) How much time a day do you spend on it BP?What age is you puppy, do you do anything other than the drive developement? Myszka Bruno has been doing this since he was 12 weeks old (only because that's when I found out how to do it!) he is now 18 weeks. I do three times a day, drive building Twice a day Triangle of Temptation - for his meals Also trained basic commands - sit, stay, drop, stand etc. as he has so much to learn. We did no lead work while building drive. Now we are on the next phase so we do lead walk training and puppy class at obedience school. He has picked everything up so fast I am amazed. The other students at puppy class want to know the secret to his focus and attention ;) . Forgot to answer time per day: 30 minutes for TID maybe? Edited July 6, 2006 by BellasPerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 30 minutes for TID maybe? and the other 23 1/2 hours? he jsut hangs around doing nothing? Also trained basic commands - sit, stay, drop, stand I read that this is not recommended... in the 3 weeks drive building period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 (edited) Just a thought, if I may, some pups have a low attention span. Ooops a daisy, I meant to type short attention span (depending on age mainly), so that is why I probably "do" 5 drive building sessions a day. I do admit though, I have been known to take young pups with the big dogs to SAFE known farms, and they may do water, obstacle, and some running (eeeccckk) around. I do tend to train them last, I like causing them frustration (in a nice way of course) from them, as they observe the big dogs having fun. Otherwise they are crated in the house. Edited July 6, 2006 by Lablover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Otherwise they are crated in the house. Im away at work for about 10 hours each day Mon - Fri.... what to do than? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Pen with no toys. With the chewers no bedding either. Remember, I do not work, so mine are only in their pens for short periods of time. I have to go out with human friends too sometimes LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 (edited) K9: Neutralisation is the key to a high end dog... Just how do you neutralise a dog? In your case, Gillian, your dog has some negative values (to certain things) - consequently we need to socialise. Think of it this way: -10 .......................... 0 ............................. +10 Negative ///////////// Neutralised /////////////Positive value //////////////// (no value)/////////////// value You can take a dog from negative value to neutralised value by way of socialisation. But, once the dog perceives value beyond the "0" point, you can't go back. Where there are negative values, IMO, it is better to work forwards, even if it means gaining some positive value. In my dog's case, she began at negative value and has reached "neutralised" ..... in some things and in some cases. Occasionally, she's a tad under the "neutralisation" and occassionally, with some things, she's a tad over the "neutralisation" mark. We can discuss this further, if you like, when I see you. I'm sure Steve would approve. ;) Edited July 6, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 30 minutes for TID maybe? and the other 23 1/2 hours? he jsut hangs around doing nothing? Also trained basic commands - sit, stay, drop, stand I read that this is not recommended... in the 3 weeks drive building period. The other 23.5 hours he amuses himself in the backyard chasing leaves and birds and stuff. He also runs around (I have two dogs). The training regime is different for each dog. Pups are much easier as they don't have bad habbits already. I am focusing mostly on Bella - the older dog - who did not have any other training during the drive building. Bella takes a lot more work cause I spent the first two years in blissful ignorance trying to trian out her drive Now have to pay the price by reversing all this ;) Bruno has all his natural drives and I'm am slowly encouraging him. Also, only Bella has been to see K9, Bruno will be going to his own workshop soon so I'll find out some more stuff then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Bellaperson, Do not give up on Bella. Stamp and Peppa were gee about 2/nearly 3 when I started the extra drive building regime. Stamp had intermittent hard mouth for example and it cured him, something which other professional trainers around the world said impossible!!!!!! Peppa and a few of my other labs all were tested, for different responses. It was very..................interesting seeing the differences in each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Thanks lablover I won't give up on Bella, she is already responding so well. I just know I have a lot of hard work in front of me, and I happen to like hard work ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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