MonElite Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 In another thread there was a short mention about how dogs observe other dogs (higher in the pack) and learn by observation. Im somewhat familiar with the concept, but would love to learn more, so pls you gurus and non gurus exchange some info here. I have seen one dog being trained in drive and another dog not being trained willing to go for the toy. I have seen one dog go into guard drive and another to follow and learn from it. One dog wants a stick the other dog wants it as well, one runs to the gate the other one follows etc. How do they learn Im interested aobut the positive as well as negative learnings. As an example of a negative learning. A young dog sees other dogs have a fight. The young dog isnt in any danger its just a witness, do they assosicate the dog fight with something thay will want to do or something that they want to avoid? As another example - lets hope a positive this time - I give my older dog a COME command the pupp observes and learns the command? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) I have a couple of articles of at least two published articles on this subject. From memory one was the training of guide dogs for the visually impaired. Another some type of working dog requirement. I do remember all youngsters were safe in their crates, for obvious reasons. I will find them tonight. Building drive through frustration, observing other dogs gaining rewarding, is a good thing!!!! I am so mean. Edited July 13, 2006 by Lablover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Yeah, well ...... I've had my dog observe me doing the dishes and washing the floors for 6 years now. Hasn't rubbed off on her yet. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Erny, that because our lazy selfish dogs, gain no satisfaction from such human silliness. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Erny, that because our lazy selfish dogs, gain no satisfaction from such human silliness. LOL. I thought it might have been because she hasn't been trained in "drive". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxlse Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 I'm very intertested in this too, myszka. I brought my new boy home last Saturday & his breeder assures me she never taught him how to sit but by Sunday afternoon, he would sit on command & I hadn't even shown him how! I've just said it to Mia & he's copied her. I'm quite amazed because you'd swear he's been trained. Mia is also helping me with his housetraining, yay Mia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grotty_rotty Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Myszka, last week Herr Rottweiler started to teach my Rotty to give him his paw. Rotty was trying all his tricks, dropping, talking, snuffling and twice he did something that could be seen as raising his paw. We had a chat about learning by observation, so that weekend I sat my Shepherd down in front of the Rotty and asked the Shepherd for his paw - which he did immediately. I turned to the Rotty and asked for his paw - perfect first time around. Training on Wednday night and Herr Rottweiler asks for his paw, he does it first time around now, keeps doing it and now won't stop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 I have been trying to find my various articles, but at this stage (apart from one, which I have no idea how to cut and paste) remain in one of those - very safe places!!! If you surf the net under: Canine observational learning you may find sites of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flames_Daddy Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Its MYSZKA here again After I posted the subject last night I went home and wanted to feed the dogs, Was carrying the food for baby and both dog were following me to the door. I needed extra hand to hold one back (well sort of) so I said to Rex heal down stay. He did it perfectly. Diva looked at me wit the food, looked at Rex looked at me and did a perfect drop in drive, wacking the front paws on the floor hard What a clever dog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Erny - the fact that Kal hasn't started doing the housework after 6 years of observing you just proves how smart she is, doesn't it My previous Border Collie, Sam, was really reluctant to get on the dogwalk. Until one day, when I was training with a friend, he was tied up watching as first her 2 Golden Retrievers went over, then my Kelpie/Border Collie cross went over. As I let Sam off the lead, he went straight to the dogwalk, and straight up and over, and it became one of his favourite obstacles from then on - so much so that he would off course to it . To this day, I swear that was learning by observation - with a good dash of jealousy as well. A lot of working sheepdog people will have a young dog working with a more experienced dog - partly to control the sheep so the youngster doesn't get hurt, but also it seems to allow the youngster to learn by observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Erny - the fact that Kal hasn't started doing the housework after 6 years of observing you just proves how smart she is, doesn't it Well, now there's a thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-j Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 QUOTE(Lablover @ 13th Jul 2006 - 06:56 PM) Erny, that because our lazy selfish dogs, gain no satisfaction from such human silliness. LOL. I thought it might have been because she hasn't been trained in "drive". Or could it be because you weren't trained in drive and aren't showing enough excitment at the prospect of finishing the tasks to tweak her interest Myszka also if you google model rival training which I think is the same?/similar? to observational learning there are a few interesting sites. cheers M-J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 QUOTE(Lablover @ 13th Jul 2006 - 06:56 PM) Erny, that because our lazy selfish dogs, gain no satisfaction from such human silliness. LOL. I thought it might have been because she hasn't been trained in "drive". Or could it be because you weren't trained in drive and aren't showing enough excitment at the prospect of finishing the tasks to tweak her interest You might be right, although knowing my dog, if I showed so much enthusiasm to the task at hand, she'd be thinking to not ruin my 'fun' and leave me to it anyway. (When I throw a ball, she tends to look at me as if to say "well, you threw it away, so you can't want it much" ..... no point in her getting it back for me! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-j Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 knowing my dog, if I showed so much enthusiasm to the task at hand, she'd be thinking to not ruin my 'fun' and leave me to it anyway. If you would like to try model rival training for this I could lend you my mother in law, she has a extremely high housework drive cheers M-J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 knowing my dog, if I showed so much enthusiasm to the task at hand, she'd be thinking to not ruin my 'fun' and leave me to it anyway. If you would like to try model rival training for this I could lend you my mother in law, she has a extremely high housework drive cheers M-J Send her over ..................... NOW!!!!! (errrmm .... does she cook too, by any chance? Tell her to pack her bags and be ready for a long stay .) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 16, 2006 Author Share Posted July 16, 2006 Im also interested in the perception of the "other" dog of some events. Giving an example. My puppy had witnessed my dog being extremly unhappy and agro towards other dog (nothing happened apart from some spit and dribble on the window - as the other dog was on the other side of the glass door) but would she learn from that? what would she learn? She was only a witness of an incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-j Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Send her over ..................... NOW!!!!! (errrmm .... does she cook too, by any chance? Tell her to pack her bags and be ready for a long stay .) WOOOO HOOOOO!!!!!! one mother inlaw coming your way for a loooong stay. She does all of the above and very well too. cheers M-J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 WOOOO HOOOOO!!!!!! one mother inlaw coming your way for a loooong stay. She does all of the above and very well too. ...................................... There is a money back guarantee, isn't there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Ok .... back on topic (for a moment ) .... Here's a story from a fellow who I got to know when I was doing the NDTF dog training certification course, years ago. He owns a boxer. Smart dog - had learnt to learn. Did all sorts of tricks and was very good at obedience at a high and reliable level. This dog buried its bones as dogs usually do. Until one week, his owner had the landscaping done to his back yard and spent a full weekend planting shrubs/trees. The dog enjoyed the activities of his owner, stayed by his side and generally hung around with interest. After that weekend, whenever this dog gets a bone to eat and he's had his 'fill', he now buries all his bones with one end sticking up out of the hole. Go figure. ......................................................... wonder if he thought they might grow ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 And here's another example. For dogs who have the genetic urge to dig .............. a method called "stimulus control". Where instead of insisting on the impossible (ie not to dig .... ever) you provide a sand pit and teach the dog that is where it is allowed to dig. One of the recommended things to do to begin the process of learning, is bury treats/favourite toy things and dig in the sand pit yourself to uncover them ... all the while with your dog looking on and participating when a treasure is uncovered. IE Learning by observation. My dog is not a digger. But sometimes I can get her to have "a little go" at digging, by pretending to dig myself. (eg when I'm at the beach). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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