wolf82 Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Hi, I have a quick question. When ever i take my dog for a walk, he loves other dogs... i mean loves. He will happily wander along and look at people with his tail wagging, but if he sees another dog, even in the distance, he fixates on them and starts pulling. The closer they get, the more excited he gets. His tail is going 1 million miles p/h and he is yelping and moaning? to try and get to the other dog, he even hits the end of the lead and does backflips (full backflips and lands on his paws) trying to get to the other dog. Now as you can imagine, this can frighten some people. He goes to doggy school every sunday morning and loves playing with other dogs, we have never had any agro issues with him either, he just loves other dogs. He can see one far in the distance and will start pulling like crazy towards that dog. I have tried distracting him with food, he will eat the food and "watch me" for a few seconds until he goes back to fixating on the other dog. Any ideas how to stop this? Im a big strong guy, but its starting to get painful holding a 30kg AmStaff on a lead whos pulling as hard as he can. Any advice is welcome. Cheers, Steve PS He is also intact, and im not interesting in using a choker chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 What are you interested in using? My suggestion would be 1) NILIF and TOT at home, 2) a prong collar and some professional lessons about walking on a loose leash around distractions, and 3) requiring your dog to give you a behaviour before he ever gets to greet or play with other dogs (even at obedience school), so he learns that pleasing you is the only way to access the doggy fun. But I'm not a professional trainer, and hopefully others here will have some other suggestions for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf82 Posted September 18, 2006 Author Share Posted September 18, 2006 I do NILIF and TOT (similar, dog waits until he is told to eat, wont eat until i give him the ok). He can sit ok, if i yank him back and tell him to sit, he will, but he will just whine and stay focused, if i start walking again he will charge towards the other dog until i tell him to sit again, rinse repeat. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 You need to find out what distance the dog gets excited and keep outside of this distance until this is resolved. Eg, walk across the road if there are dogs coming or turn around and go the other way. The whining is suppressed/repressed drive (along with jaw clicking). Bella used to do this as well until we started Training in Drive with K9 Force. Your dog sounds like he has a high drive and would benefit from this training. There are hundreds of topics on how to fix this if you search for "Training in Drive" (satisfying the dogs natural drives) and "Neutralisation" (getting your dog to ignore distractions). If you put in a bit of work you will have a dog that is a pleasure to walk like Bella is now. Have fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf82 Posted September 18, 2006 Author Share Posted September 18, 2006 Ya know, your the first to say he might have high drive... Hes a lazy bones to me I thought he was my low drive couche potato! As for distance..... The other dog can be a tiny spec on the horizon... So much so that you can barely make out the colour, let alone the breed, and he will see it and start pulling towards it. He also does the jaw clicking (mouth trembles) if he sees another dog or something really smelly that he likes on the ground, even if i drag him away from the smelly spot he will whine for a good 15seconds and his jaw will tremble, then he forgets about it. Dont even get me started on when i was at a friends house and their dog was in heat, i didnt even realise this was the case and was patting their dog etc. When i got home he ran around the house crying for HOURS, he wouldnt settle and kept sniffing my shorts. Anyway, i make sure to stay away from dogs in heat these days, the house of whining drove me crazy! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 W: and TOT (similar, dog waits until he is told to eat, wont eat until i give him the ok). K9: there is a whole lot more to the TOT than waiting to eat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf82 Posted September 18, 2006 Author Share Posted September 18, 2006 TOT is enforcing pack leadership correct? My dog knows who is alpha. Bones, toys, etc all belong to me, i can call my dog from a bone, or pick it up with my mouth if i want, he will just sit back and watch me, wagging his tail and hoping ill give it back to him. Ill look into TOT more, maybe i presumed that its more than just leadership and showing whos boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 W: TOT is enforcing pack leadership correct? K9: its one of the aspects of it yes. W: My dog knows who is alpha. Bones, toys, etc all belong to me, i can call my dog from a bone, or pick it up with my mouth if i want, he will just sit back and watch me, wagging his tail and hoping ill give it back to him. K9: thats great, so why then does he pull the Alpha along on leash? ever thought about that? Your dog seems to have a high value for other dogs, he will need to have that value adjusted & it will be difficult to do without aversives... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf82 Posted September 18, 2006 Author Share Posted September 18, 2006 Hmmmm! Good point, i just read ToT. When i make him wait for his food, he doesnt stop looking me in the eyes, he doesnt even look at the food. I have had him sitting for 10minutes just waiting for me to allow him to eat, and leaving big piles of drool on the floor As for the pulling me along.. Thats a very good point. Do you have any advice what else needs to be done apart from TOT? You mention it will be difficult to do with out aversives... Such as what? Any advice would be fantastic :D Infact, i would probably be happier if you managed to come to SA, i know i have posted before asking if you were heading to SA anytime soon hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf82 Posted September 18, 2006 Author Share Posted September 18, 2006 I must say though, im glad that its not aggression which drives him towards other dogs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 W: Hmmmm!Good point, i just read ToT. When i make him wait for his food, he doesnt stop looking me in the eyes, he doesnt even look at the food. I have had him sitting for 10minutes just waiting for me to allow him to eat, and leaving big piles of drool on the floor :D As for the pulling me along.. Thats a very good point. K9 I have been known to make the odd good point... W: Do you have any advice what else needs to be done apart from TOT? You mention it will be difficult to do with out aversives... Such as what? K9: ask yourself why he doesnt pull to get to humans? what stopped him... He see's dogs as a higher value, ie level of distraction & he needs to have further training to & beyond that level of distraction.. W: Any advice would be fantastic :D Infact, i would probably be happier if you managed to come to SA, i know i have posted before asking if you were heading to SA anytime soon hehe. K9: Never know your luck in a big city.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 K9: yes well from a training perspective he has possibly a level 7 or 8 / 10 value for dogs, aggression would just be a level 7 or 8 / 10 in the negative. The closer you are to zero the easier training is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybeece Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 I can offer a little advice on this- my dog does this as well and if he starts fixating on another dog I work on redirecting him to gain his focus back. Clicker training has been helpful, but just making myself more interesting than the other dog does the trick too. I'll call him back in an excited way and do a little bit of a trot back in the other direction- the quicker movement grabs his focus. If he's really fixated he's more hesitant to come, but once he gets going I can turn him around again and he's a lot less interested in the other dog and more interested in what I'm going to do next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatdex Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 I must say though, im glad that its not aggression which drives him towards other dogs! Give him time, he is only 10 months old. My boy snapped into dog aggression around the 14 month mark. Not saying he will, just saying he still could and be prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf82 Posted September 18, 2006 Author Share Posted September 18, 2006 Ok, Thanks for that, i will keep a close eye on him. If he starts going feral towards other dogs, ill probably get his knackers off. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Ok,Thanks for that, i will keep a close eye on him. If he starts going feral towards other dogs, ill probably get his knackers off. Steve Be aware that any hormone driven behaviours also become learned as the dog exhibits them and is reinforced. If your dog starts showing dog aggression that is motivated by hormones having him desexed will not alter the learned component of the behaviour. Phatdex is quite right, aggression can show itself between the ages of around 15-24 months especially when it is hormone related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityBites Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 I don't think chopping bits off your dog will help with training issues :D BUT you definately need to make him see that other dogs are not fun! Does he have a favourite toy you could take with you out on a walk? Don't play with it at any other time but when he goes for a walk. Do you have a friend who has a dog that is not interested in other dogs but is calm around them? Find a dog like that and have your dog try and play with it and fail, and then have a big game with him with his toy. If you can do that several times, he'll start to realise you are more fun than other dogs. Out of curiosity (For my own research I am doing at the moment) did you take him to a puppy socilisation class of any sort? Or was he sociliased around other dogs as a pup? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 I dont see why you would wait and see before getting him desexed. Do it now. Aversives are things like corrections. You seem to be relying on the tender balance you have between you and the dog to keep him under control. You dont seem to be showing him 'no' per say but 'try this instead'. The dog is still seeing other dogs as something fantastic. Food is not enough, because the emotional reward he receives when playing with other dogs far outweighs food. If you rely on food then starve him for a meal or two. You need to start lead training again because frankly a dog that flips himself and strains on a lead is pathetic. You dont want to use a check chain but letting your dog bang himself hard enough on a lead - thats worst. Of course he frightens people - he's out of control, and other dogs can lash out when ran at. If I can make a 58kg male DDB and a SWF aggressive malinois walk past other dogs calmly you can handle one Amstaff. You need to teach focus completely. He's old enough to learn real focus. When you let him off at obedience he should not be let to play until he is completely settled and looking at you. If he's been having so much fun, that has been cementing him into the 'OMG OMG ITS PLAY TIME" mindset. Do not approach other dogs. When you see one in the distance make him sit, practice focus be it with a toy, food, whatever. Frankly this dog needs a correction for carrying on like a pork chop because he needs to be taught this behaviour is completely unacceptable. If you dont like check chains get a prong and a good trainer. You need to break through that excitement with something. This dog will have a distance where the excitement starts being released. The trick is to have him focusing, then gradually approach, over time, closer and closer, decreasing that critical spaz distance. You should be able to have a dog that walks past other dogs without even turning their head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybeece Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 (edited) Frankly this dog needs a correction for carrying on like a pork chop because he needs to be taught this behaviour is completely unacceptable. Yikes Nekhbet, be careful what you advise when dealing with this stuff. Correcting a dog that's reacting like that to another dog could easily only aggravate it and even encourage an aggressive reaction. Also, the OP said there's not agression involved, but what if there is? Correcting a dog for aggression is a terrible idea that will only lead to further problems and potential heartbreak. Edited September 19, 2006 by jaybeece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TangerineDream Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 ...must be Tango's sibling you've got there That's exactly what Tango was doing, backflips, spins, shrieking, the lot.... To stop this sort of behaviour, I created a command "leave it"... when he starts (and long before he gets into full 'idiot mode'), he gets a total cessation of activity from me, a hand on the collar holding him still, and a gruff "leave it"....it's worked for me - didn't take me long to teach it - and now, if he starts to get silly I just have to say 'leave it' and he behaves. He loves other dogs too and will take any opportunity to be a lunatic....(and this is the key)...if I let him get away with it. Once he's calmed down, he's allowed to play politely, but is then under control, rather than out of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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