doit4thedogz

APBT's are not being bred for anything in this country because it is illegal to import them so there are no fresh lines coming in. I doubt you will find a real purebred APBT in this country. Funny lots of "average" families in America own these dogs just fine. FYI they were known as the Nanny dog for a very long time in the US, they got that name for a reason. And that is all I can really be bothered saying. Everything has been said so please refer back to mine and others previous posts. Now Joe is right. SOme of you do have your heads in the clouds. So how do you plan to get the Apbt loved and accepted by society? When the world over it has a long running reputation? And statements like this: - Not being bred for anything. - No fresh lines - No real APBTS What are these statements based on? The fanatasy of an ideal world? Take off them rosey red glasses. These statements would also be offensive to the Apbt community in Australia especially those who've been into the breed for decades. Alot of average families in the USA own the breed? well look at the state of the breed in the USA, banned in how many states. The breeding also coming in how many shapes, sizes and forms. Look at the situation in Australia, don't compare us to the USA. there are a whole of differences between the australian and american people and australian and american pitbulls. Also your nanny dog statement is just plain ignorant. Just because a dog may be 'good' around children it doesnt mean it's suitable as a children's dog. It's ideas like these that add to the problem. Treating the Apbt like an average dog, something it is not. Peolpe who know the breed know it is not your average dog and shouldn't be treated that way. LMAO seriously. As already mentioned several breeds have previously been banned and their reputation has been terrible and yet here they stand now as much loved dogs. It may take a while but it will eventually happened like it has in the past. And we have the right to fight for that. You certainly do not have the right to tell us what we can and cannot fight for. If we choose to own the breed and fight for it's reputation then that is our prerogative and that is our right so stop telling us we should just accept it and move on. I am sure there are still some people in Aus in the ACT and NT who breed decent dogs but with the breed so restricted and the fact you cannot import it makes it very hard to breed for anything specific because you can only work with what you have. If any APBT people are offended by what I have said let them come here and tell me themselves. No dog in my eyes is suitable as a childs dog, children should not own dogs, sure in conjunction with a parent/adult they can help but as far as I am concerned they shouldn't own their own dog who is completely left up to them to take care of, exercise and train. I am not treating the APBT as an average dog, I never said that, I never said just anyone should own this breed. Read back through my posts, I have already said all dog owners should have to go through certainly licensing etc before owning a dog. If we were tighter in controlling who breeds dogs then you would have responsible breeders who know their breed selling dogs to people who they think have what it takes to own that breed. Yeah sure it is banned in many counties/states but there are a lot of counties/states in America, there are still a lot of areas who allow Pitties. There are still alot of regular families who own them. Do some research they are still a much loved breed in America by people in and out of the banned areas. BSL has already been abolished in some places due to the ineffectiveness of the legislation and due to people fighting against it. So whether or not you approve I will continue to fight for this breed and their right to live the same as every other breed of dog on the planet and for my right to own them and love them. Laugh away. People laugh to hide their sorrows... So how do you plan on improving it's reputation? The statements you made about no REAL Apbts, no fresh lines to develop the gene pool, and not being bred for anything are just ignorant. Don't confuse and misinform others with your 'internet' research. There are many REAL apbts in this country, many strong bloodlines and many being bred for work. Maybe your dogs, the ones on this forum and those you've met have none of those qualities but don't speak for everyone. And trust me there are ways about getting things into the country. No dogs are to be left solemnly in the care of children. So are just more suitable and less of a risk. These nanny dog comments are foolish and misinforms people into thinking they can leave a dog to run free with the children unsupervised. Something you shouldn't dog with dogs let alone an Apbt. Do you think to average family know the history of the dogs? the capabilities of the dogs and what to expect from them? And pit bulls in America? Don't even go there. Another brainwashed America follower? That is one country we don't want to be like. The breed as a whole in it's home country is a mess. You have extremes in all forms and a whole lot of rubbish. There may be some SHOW-bred pitbulls and american bullies which are more placid and easy to handle thus may be more suitable for families. These type of dogs would be more similar to the Amstaff. The breed in the USA can range from genuine gamebred and sporting dogs, to show dogs, bully dogs, and everything in between plus a whole lot of BYB random bred dogs. In some areas the pounds are filled with them and yes they are banned or restricted in many cities, regions, etc. So you think this a country we should follow?

APBT's are not being bred for anything in this country because it is illegal to import them so there are no fresh lines coming in. I doubt you will find a real purebred APBT in this country. Funny lots of "average" families in America own these dogs just fine. FYI they were known as the Nanny dog for a very long time in the US, they got that name for a reason. And that is all I can really be bothered saying. Everything has been said so please refer back to mine and others previous posts. Now Joe is right. SOme of you do have your heads in the clouds. So how do you plan to get the Apbt loved and accepted by society? When the world over it has a long running reputation? And statements like this: - Not being bred for anything. - No fresh lines - No real APBTS What are these statements based on? The fanatasy of an ideal world? Take off them rosey red glasses. These statements would also be offensive to the Apbt community in Australia especially those who've been into the breed for decades. Alot of average families in the USA own the breed? well look at the state of the breed in the USA, banned in how many states. The breeding also coming in how many shapes, sizes and forms. Look at the situation in Australia, don't compare us to the USA. there are a whole of differences between the australian and american people and australian and american pitbulls. Also your nanny dog statement is just plain ignorant. Just because a dog may be 'good' around children it doesnt mean it's suitable as a children's dog. It's ideas like these that add to the problem. Treating the Apbt like an average dog, something it is not. Peolpe who know the breed know it is not your average dog and shouldn't be treated that way.

There will always be dog breeds bred for aggression, dog fighting etc. If you choose to buy into that breed. Then you should accept the bad press that comes with it.

If you choose to won the breed, you shouldnt complain about the negative stigma attached to it and the government attention it gets. Same goes for if you own a highly modified car. You choose to drive it on the road, you shoulnt complain about being defected all the time.

well said actually that quote is a load of excrement.. a myth perperated by the ignorant., try getting innformation from those who are knowledgable about dogs, training and the pitbull. Diane Jessup is an acknowledged pitbull 'expert' and her site give a warts and all opinion. I have immense respect for her. I also have had the joy of sharing part of my lifes journey with Jake.. a pitbull rescued from fighting. Jake stole my heart then shattered it into a million pieces 6 years later when he died.... No pitbull are not for every dog owner, just as livestock guardian breeds are bot suitable for all dog owners, http://www.workingpitbull.com/ Helen In memory of Jake I am thinking Diane Jessup should learn why a dog bites which applies to any dog. I have trained 4 Pitbulls in protection in Europe, compared with German Shepherd Dog and Rottweiler they are hard dog to switch off the bite and too foggy in the head in active aggression is the reason why professional dont using these dogs. They have very high thresholding on the pain much higher than Shepherd Dog and Rottweiler,is not Pitbull are bad dog, they having some very nice working quality but can be very dangerous dog in the wrong hands. Becuase someone had nice Pitbull not hurting a fly, I have Shepherd Dogs like this too and ones with the right combination in the dominant genes want to kill everyone serious in the social aggression can happen in this breeds more than others breeds is very unlikely. Is time the Pitbull people taking the color from their spectical and looking through the clear glass in my opinion and who letting the team down is idiots who breed aggression in the dogs and sell them to anyone is the problem. If the dogs breeding in social agression was sold to people handling these dog properly like happenning with the Shepherd Dog and Rottweiler most of this Pitbull problems disapperaing. Is the people dealing in this dogs is the problem where it begins which needing some control. Same applying to breeding cross genetics of bit Mastiff, bit of Pitbull and bit of Rottweiler is stupid breeding on my opinion, mix all these breeds up with potential for aggressive traits is going to come out aggressive on some dogs for sure. Expert breeders on the working dogs get it wrong on the balance of nerve and aggression, this people knowing what they do and people doing a backyard presentation to stick on the Gumtree add for cheap Bull breeding of cross genes what temperament quality comes from this I am asking? Breed the proper Pitbull is no worries and sell them to people on the credential to own them is ok, but this bit of Mastiff and bit of Staffy and bit of Pitbull breedings on the backyard needing to get rid of this and people wanting a dog buy a proper one with the stable in the nerve and temperament for community adaption for the pet. Sure I agree is owners fault this dogs get out and kill the lady on the street, but the point is this poor lady go for a walk and she dont come home becuase 4 dogs killing her in attack. Is very high in active aggression for dogs to do this regardless of the breed is aggression level that does the killing not becuase the dog escaping the yard. If she having 4 Silky Terrier run from the yard the likelihood she die is minimal is what the breed argument comes about. Deed is too late for the punishment to help this lady when she dead. Joe The Apbt does have some good working qualities. But some of the qualities bred into the breed for generations make them unsuitable for certain roles and the average family. for example the breed is not the best for pig hunting because they are hard to get off and control. They try to fight and kill the pig. Once they see the pig they go off and that's it. They're off. The same goes for Personal protection dogs, the apbt is not the best breed because they are harder to call off and control. Point is the breed is a working dog and should be owned by people who know the breed or want to work it. People who know how to train it, control it and contain it. But when people want a tough dog they go straight for the Apbt becuase of it's reputation as a fighting dog and stuff they see on tv. SO how is ablolishing BSL goiing to help the breed. By putting more apbts on the street and into the public again?

The Apbt is a working dog and is still being actively 'tested' and bred for gameness in this country. People need to understand that they are a working breed and they arent for everyone and should be kept only be knowledgeable people because they are a dog with special needs. They are not for the average family, they are not a 'kids' dog, and they are not a off-lead follow me around the trailer park bogan dog. The APBT is a dog that has been developed for fighting and over the generations have developed qualities like gameness, aggression, high-pain tolerance, athleticism....The qualities that have been bred into the dogs over the years make it a highly capable fighting breed and also not suitable for the average family. The point is the Breed was and is a 'fighting' breed and thus will always attract the wrong crowd. SO if you can't deal with the negative stigma attached to the breed. Why not just get another breed?

Never said I would step into their yard doit4thedogz - why can't people learn to read If you go to sth America I'll find you a well bred fila for you to stick your hand in. And if you make it, you can find me the baddest poodle you want and i'll step in it's yard.

OK, in a purely handler/human to dog context. In terms of a Human/dog relationship context. You think it's the handlers fault for putting the dog in danger. It's the human's duty of care to keep the dog safe and out of dangerous situations, as he is the human in the relationship. So you think that, he shouldn't have used the dog in the first place (being a possible dangerous situation). In that line of work there are many dangerous situations, so you are saying that dogs shouldn't be in the police force because it's dangerous. If anything happens to a police dog on the job it's the humans' fault, because thew human put him there. Now i get you. Human's shouldn't put dogs in any sort of work that is dangerous.

Not necessarily. My issue is with the irrational way the buck is passed to the suspect, when it is clear that it is the police who should be bearing the responsibility. Although having said that I do see the use of dogs in this kind of work being phased out in the long term. Within a generation of their disuse, people will be wondering how we could have ever been reckless enough to willfully put a dog in such a dangerous situation. One guy followed the other guy, that is the reasoning. For example, Australia followed the UK, and it snow balled. I don't know a great deal about all the breeds, but a theory I dare put forward for why they where chosen is that atleast some of the breeds involved are currently work bred in different parts of the world, and the type of work they do is considered displeasing. For example, the Tosa is widely fight bred in Japan and Korea, the APBT is widely fight bred in the USA, and to a lesser degree Asia and Europe, I also understand the Fila to be bred for use as a bold and aggressive guardian in South America. These dogs are strictly selectively bred, and even then many dogs are killed as pups because they are deemed to lack the potential to fulfill their work requirements. As soon as they stop being tested and selectively bred, they begin to lose their abilities. Thats why Australia is full of essentially useless dogs, from GSD's, Dobermans, Staffords, Danes, ect you name it and most are of little use for their originally intended task. Why, because they are bred as pets generation after generation. Does not matter what a fight bred APBT is capable of, a pet and a fighting dog are not nearly the same thing. Further to that, i'm of the belief that even fight bred dogs are not NECESSARILY dog aggressive, rather they have all the right potential to be champions if they are conditioned to fight, in other words, the epitome of a great dog. Structurally sound, hard nerved, tenacious, willing to please, ect. I think I have done put one forward. If we enforce the dog control laws we already have properly (minus BSL), and introduce a system like the one I described, that is a positive alternative that will in fact reduce dogs attacks, imagine that. First of all my post is personal attack, only if you take it that. My post about working dogs is to do with the fact that you seem to think ‘working’ dogs are more worthy, but in this thread you believe that police dogs are no use. If dogs shouldn’t be used as police dog, what kind of so called ‘work’ do you think dogs should be used for?

Not necessarily. My issue is with the irrational way the buck is passed to the suspect, when it is clear that it is the police who should be bearing the responsibility. Although having said that I do see the use of dogs in this kind of work being phased out in the long term. Within a generation of their disuse, people will be wondering how we could have ever been reckless enough to willfully put a dog in such a dangerous situation. So in your BSL post you were pro-working dog, now your anti-working dog. What's your stand? You say Bans on certain breeds should be lifted, because these dogs are working breeds, not useless 'show ring' dogs. So why would you say, police dogs should be phased out.

What about this analogy? 1. Policeman feels justified in deploying a taser on an aggressive attacker. 2. Aggressive attackers pulls out a gun and shoots the policeman. 3. Now, is it the policeman's fault he got shot? Same context, idea . Just replaced dog with taser and, dog getting killed with policeman getting killed. So does the cop in my analogy deserve to die? They are not referred to as the thin blue line for nothing. People need to stop defending the actions of crims and making the police the bad guys. We don't need a world where the police don't respond because they are scared to get sued. Your post is an analogy of the law enforcement context, you take it out of context. My analogy puts it back in context. So if we are in this post making comments about the news article in question we should be talking in context, not remove all details and focus on what we want to. Same goes for analyzing anything. Eg, dog attack on a kid, are we just gonna analyse the confrontation bewteen the kid and the dog ("who started the fight" etc??) Or should we look at the context??(environment, breeding, family situation, pack order, dog's environment, family dynamics, trainining etc) If you want to talk about hypothetical situations, i'll create a thread for you. I'll name it " A hypothetical situation: when a dog bites".

What about this analogy? 1. Policeman feels justified in deploying a taser on an aggressive attacker. 2. Aggressive attackers pulls out a gun and shoots the policeman. 3. Now, is it the policeman's fault he got shot? Same context, idea . Just replaced dog with taser and, dog getting killed with policeman getting killed. So does the cop in my analogy deserve to die? They are not referred to as the thin blue line for nothing. People need to stop defending the actions of crims and making the police the bad guys. We don't need a world where the police don't respond because they are scared to get sued.

You like to talk about 'working' dog this and 'working' dog that. How most dogs are losing their working ability, not being worked etc. How some breeds are far superior and more worthy because they are work-bred and bred for a purpose etc. Now you think police dogs shouldn't be used because they might get hurt. Of course the dog handler will feel some degree of responsibility, but whats the point of having a police dog if you don't want to use them?? So should the offender NOT be charged for attempting to kill a police dog? Should he just get off?

One guy followed the other guy, that is the reasoning. For example, Australia followed the UK, and it snow balled. I don't know a great deal about all the breeds, but a theory I dare put forward for why they where chosen is that atleast some of the breeds involved are currently work bred in different parts of the world, and the type of work they do is considered displeasing. For example, the Tosa is widely fight bred in Japan and Korea, the APBT is widely fight bred in the USA, and to a lesser degree Asia and Europe, I also understand the Fila to be bred for use as a bold and aggressive guardian in South America. These dogs are strictly selectively bred, and even then many dogs are killed as pups because they are deemed to lack the potential to fulfill their work requirements. As soon as they stop being tested and selectively bred, they begin to lose their abilities. Thats why Australia is full of essentially useless dogs, from GSD's, Dobermans, Staffords, Danes, ect you name it and most are of little use for their originally intended task. Why, because they are bred as pets generation after generation. Does not matter what a fight bred APBT is capable of, a pet and a fighting dog are not nearly the same thing. Further to that, i'm of the belief that even fight bred dogs are not NECESSARILY dog aggressive, rather they have all the right potential to be champions if they are conditioned to fight, in other words, the epitome of a great dog. Structurally sound, hard nerved, tenacious, willing to please, ect. I think I have done put one forward. If we enforce the dog control laws we already have properly (minus BSL), and introduce a system like the one I described, that is a positive alternative that will in fact reduce dogs attacks, imagine that. That's excatly why the government has banned them. Now why should the government un-ban them?

Big D - I would place my life in the paws and jaws of a PROPERLY bred Rottweiler, German Shepherd, American Pit Bull Terrier, Japanese Tosa, Brazilian Fila or Argentine Dogo miles before I would even enter the yard of a BADLY bred Golden Retriever, Labrador, Standard Poodle, Cocker Spaniel or any other "good" breed you care to mention. As for Golden Retrievers having rounded teeth, sorry that's just not even worth answering. Learn some dog anatomy please! :rolleyes: You'd be crazy to step in to the yard of a well bred Fila, dogo , or Tosa.

The Ovtcharkas (which quite a few fall under this breed) are known for their very aggressive nature. I've seen footage of these dogs and not only can they aggressive (towards humans as well as other dogs), but the sheer size of them can well be a recipe for disaster. They must have some stats in their country for this ban. The Boerbel another interesting one. Several of my South African friends (who are dog lovers and owners) cannot believe they are allowed in this country - they have said that time and time again this breed makes the front page and TV news because they have attacked people, and usually members of their own family (of course that doesn't mean all will by any means), but just shows that these large powerful breeds in the wrong hands can be a disaster. What we don't want here are the irresponsible dog owners picking these breeds. I'm all for responsible dog owners having these breeds. Hmmmm.......not much else to say really other than my experience with Boerboels is the complete opposite. Again, why we are extremely selective on who owns this breed. Why we continue with the appraisal system of which the largest scores pertain to temprement then health. Why, if the dog doesn't pass its appraisal, won't be elegible for registration. Still doesn't mean your BYB can't go out and breed, but we are doing the best we can. Of all the owners and breeders that i've had dealings with in this country, all has been positive. My experince with them is that they are very protective of their owners. They have great working abilities that are lost in most mastiff breeds, especially in Australia. They are large powerful and athletic for their size. They aren't pussy cats. I think the breeders are doing a great job, not peddaling them out.

The Ovtcharkas (which quite a few fall under this breed) are known for their very aggressive nature. I've seen footage of these dogs and not only can they aggressive (towards humans as well as other dogs), but the sheer size of them can well be a recipe for disaster. They must have some stats in their country for this ban. The Boerbel another interesting one. Several of my South African friends (who are dog lovers and owners) cannot believe they are allowed in this country - they have said that time and time again this breed makes the front page and TV news because they have attacked people, and usually members of their own family (of course that doesn't mean all will by any means), but just shows that these large powerful breeds in the wrong hands can be a disaster. What we don't want here are the irresponsible dog owners picking these breeds. I'm all for responsible dog owners having these breeds. Large powerful 'working' breeds are a disaster in the wrong hands. In some parts of the world no-nonsense large powerful working breeds are required. I met someone from sth American and he told me that Cane corsos and Filas were the most popular guard dogs in his country, a place where they carry knives and guns around.

Apologies for the delayed reply. My point was that an APBT is a dog suited to dog fights by way of its genetic makeup. It's not easy to wipe out generations of being bred for a purpose. I don't understand your point though. Do I support game-bred dogs? Depending on the individual's definition of "game-bred" which can vary. Do I support the breeding of dogs who have old fighting lines and/or deeply game dogs featuring heavily in their pedigrees? Sure. I'm not about to have a hissy fit because some dog somewhere has Chinaman or Jeep or Barney in their pedigree and I'm not going to lose sleep if someone breeds that dog. Do I support testing a dogs gameness and then breeding them, in this day and age? Nope. Hope that cleared up the confusion in your brain. I get it, So you believe in breeding game dogs and but not testing them (i.e. finding game dogs) . How can you continue breeding game dogs without testing the breeding stock? Just because a dog has a mad pedigree doesnt mean it will be a game dog. So I cant see how you plan to continue breeding game dogs without game testing.

As far as I know the SDR is an organisation that chases you down for fines, increases your fines if not paid etc . And if you finally do pay then the SDR get a percentage of what you pay and the rest goes to the people who fined you(i.e. the council) With most fines you can either pay up, write a letter to SDR (unlikely to work) or take it to court. If you take it to court(local) you are up against the council NOT the SDR. If you have all the evidence to back it up then you should be good.

He was totally wrong. Good posts "Greytmate" Which part is totally wrong rottiadore , most of what the ranger told me reflects the same as what Greytmate has told us??? A game dog "can" be handled and stopped from fighting whilst retaining a will to win because of their level head. That is one of the things looked for in a pit fighting dog. Nobody wants a dog that can't be stopped or controlled by a handler. Both dogs must be able to fight another day. That's a training issue and is often the most difficult thing to teach in Schutzhund for a determined "game" dog to out on command and not re-engage. Untrained dogs in the fight will not out and the gamer the dog, the less likelihood of stopping the fight. I agree with Longcoat stopping and dog is more of a training issue. A dog can be 'game' as anything, but if too dumb to learn anything useful then what good is the 'game'. Also a 'game' dog aggressive dog will no doubt be harder to release. And if you think the 'fight' can be trained out of all dogs, then good luck. I think it was easier for the dogfighters to realease by force rather than trying to train the dogs to realease on command. And Rottidora- Both dogs don't have to live to fight another day. Unless your talking rotti fights lol.

nothings gonna change with the breed. If you dont like the restrictions, negative image, discrimminations. etc. Tough luck, deal with it or get another breed.

Bans or No bans, the APBT will always be around and those who love them will always own them. That sort of comment does your cause no favours either. Those with influence and those who make the decisions care very little for talk like that. Once again i here what your saying, But its just reality, do you really think the APBT will become extinct because there is a ban on them? I agree, nothing about the breed will change. So why bother with it at all. However BSL might change i.e. more restirctions and bans.

Thats all you do. Joke. Pretend to care about BSL but really don't.

You ought to talk. You are the one who had an AmStaff that became a SBT. Im talking about a stand on fighting BSL. Having an actual STAND is a topic people like you always avoid. You're passing an AmStaff aka Pit Bull off as a Staffy. Is this your idea of a stand??? I can call my dog whatever I want. Are you gonna correct all those people who say staffy instead of staffordshire bull terrier. Awww have a cry now And what i call my dog has sooOoo much to do with having a stand on BSL. What else do you want to talk about??? what I had for breakfast? As a matter of fact it does. You and those like you calling your Pit Bull (an AmStaff unreg with the ANKC) a SBT is a sure fire way toward BSL for them too. First of all you dont know what breed of dog i own. Secondly i never called my dog a SBT. I said staffy, short for Staffordshire. Actually you said both. You said you owned an AmStaff in one of your early posts, then almost 2 years later you edited your post to Staffy. Why was that?? http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...c=69193&hl= You got caught out. Someone quoted you. 'doit4thedogz' Original version 19th Jul 2006 'doit4thedogz' Edited version 9th jul 2008 You just confirmed it. I never called my dog a SBT like you said I did. So you realised this and agree with me. Thats great. Atleast you admit it. I can call my dog whatever I want. Why is it that you own rottweilers but keep posting as rottidora, and not rottweilerdora? Why is that?

You ought to talk. You are the one who had an AmStaff that became a SBT. Im talking about a stand on fighting BSL. Having an actual STAND is a topic people like you always avoid. You're passing an AmStaff aka Pit Bull off as a Staffy. Is this your idea of a stand??? I can call my dog whatever I want. Are you gonna correct all those people who say staffy instead of staffordshire bull terrier. Awww have a cry now And what i call my dog has sooOoo much to do with having a stand on BSL. What else do you want to talk about??? what I had for breakfast? As a matter of fact it does. You and those like you calling your Pit Bull (an AmStaff unreg with the ANKC) a SBT is a sure fire way toward BSL for them too. First of all you dont know what breed of dog i own. Secondly i never called my dog a SBT. I said staffy, short for Staffordshire. I can call my Amstaff a staffy if I want. Staffordshire was also what the Apbt/amstaff used to be called. Look at your own dogs, I never heard of a Rotti before. What is a Rotti??? a dog that is rotting??? And everything in life is not a slippery slope. one thing does not always lead to another.