Are You Serious Jo

Don't take any notice of what size the dog is claimed to be, a man in pain and shock is hardly the best judge. But the owner was found, and I'd say that is where they got the breed identification from.

That is the best way, be a good owner and let your dogs show people they don't need to be exterminated.

We've all done this discussion a million times and suggested what pittie owners should do to fight BSL. But a lot just pull out the "it wasn't a pitbull", or "they don't bite people". Until they admit that yes, sometimes pitbulls bite people and go after those irresponsible owners and comply with the laws nothing will change. Every unregistered pitbull that attacks is perpetuating BSL, and some on here are proud of the fact they break the law. We all agree it is a stupid law, but if breaking it is the way to go, why is BSL becoming more firmly entrenched? Discussion a little while ago, some people suggested dressing the dogs up in fairy wings and calling them cutesy names etc to show they are not evil, it was poo pooed. Better to be rebels and lose your dogs I guess

You pittie owners can either take advice about how to tackle BSL or keep on with your losing battle. It is getting worse, not better, and until you become proactive instead of living in denial you won't stop going backwards.

I don't think the owner was there, and I doubt the police had time to go google how to get a pitbull to let go of the guy's hand.

Here is what the RSPCA thinks, straight from the horses mouth. RSPCA says Australia no country for pit bulls AAP October 19, 2009 08:55am THE RSPCA's Victorian president has renewed calls for American pit bull terriers to be bred out of Australia after a vicious attack in Melbourne left a man in hospital and two dogs dead. Dr Hugh Wirth said the dogs were a menace and not suitable as pets for anyone. In the latest attack, police and paramedics were called to Arundel Ave in Reservoir, in Melbourne's north, where a roaming pit bull attacked a man walking his two small dogs about 7.20pm (AEDT) yesterday. The pit bull killed one of the smaller dogs and injured the other, then clamped down on the man's hand when he tried to intervene. The dog's jaw remained locked on the man's hand for more than 20 minutes. The dog wasn't shot but paramedics had to use "their resources'' to put it down. Dr Wirth said that pit bull terriers should never have been introduced on to Australian shores. "They are time bombs waiting for the right circumstances,'' Dr Wirth said. "The American pit bull terrier is lethal because it was a breed that was developed purely for dog fighting, in other words killing the opposition. "They should never have been allowed into the country. They are an absolute menace. "What that dog did to that gentleman is no surprise. "There is no reason at all for the dog in the country. "They are not suitable pets for anybody.'' Dr Wirth said local councils were not doing enough to enforce strict laws on pit bull terriers. Restrictions for owners include confining the dogs to their property, ensuring the property is escape-proof, while a signpost warning of the dog's existence must be displayed outside the property. The dog must also be desexed, with the RSPCA hopeful this will eventually wipe out the breed. "While the dog breed is allowed to remain in the country, unless the law is strictly enforced, we are going to see more and more and more of these attacks,'' Dr Wirth said. The latest attack comes after a toddler was scarred for life when she was attacked by a pit bull in Melbourne's west earlier this year.

Yes, silly people, why didn't they reach into the ambulance and just grab it.

Crap. I think this should be used as an opportunity to show what other things people should look for in a breeder. Obviously bindi thought she had done enough by going to a registered breeder but some of them as are dodgy as BYBers. PF did an excellent post about how to buy a purebred pup, maybe pet buyers should be directed to that from now on.

The Brelands paper isn't a good example to illustrate issues in dog training though, as the focus was on a different concept. I can't remember the specifics, haven't read it in ages, but it is about when animals don't behave as expected for other reasons, not related to training. Classical conditioning is also a part of dog training, even if not deliberately taught, so don't forget that as well.

There is one member here who is a PETA supporter and their dog of choice is on the list of breeds that will go, so dog owners do support PETA. They just deny what PETA is aiming for ultimately, despite the published remarks of Newkirk that they want to wipe out pets.

Yes, because that doco was the very epitome of journalistic integrity.

I can't comment on all your posts, but I think it is a common problem across the board. I do think I have seen cases where one person is referring to the concept and another to a +R event and they are confusing each other and everyone else. Since positive training has become popular with a lot of people the jargon is getting misused (I think). It is a complicated area, not as black and white as some people new to the positive training camp think it is.

One tip, make sure you are clear between the specific meaning of a positive reinforcement event and the concept of training using only positive reinforcements. What happens within a training session may include a few different types of reinforcement, don't think of it purely as only one of the other. One of the reasons I don't like the term purely positive is because it technically can't be always positive.

Dogs are a special case because of their co-evolution with humans, you can't make blanket statements about their behaviour and cognition based on evolutionary theory or how a captive lagomorph behaves. I don't have the time to discuss topics on a forum in the same depth I do for papers, I'd rather put that time into actual papers. No one has to read my posts, someone doesn't like them just keep going.

I save the detailed critiques for work, besides, I can't really make head nor tail of your posts, I don't have enough time to try to decipher them then go on to talk about concepts ;) My poor old brain hurts :p

I hate learning theory to be honest, drives me nuts!

Take from this what you will, but this sort of thing gets up people's nose. Don't forget that there are behaviourists that go to uni as well. Maybe they are right and you are wrong, just sayin :D

No, I'm talking in general about learning theory, but I am sure you don't agree with me

I don't see the point of an argument/discussion/disagreement unless something can be learnt. I don't like to argue for the sake of arguing, so I don't bother entering threads and posting lots unless there is a chance the other parties can take on board new information or I can learn something new. Stimulating discussion is great if there is progress, but if there is the same old I disagree and won't change my mind it is a waste of time. I guess my dogs are either really well behaved or I am on top of them as I don't have any problems with mine and I do adopt a my way or the highway with them, poor things

As an academic (who actually teaches learning theory) I don't find the posters here to be in any way backaward or ill informed. I try to break the stereotype of how academics view and treat layman or people in other fields, so get dissapointed when there are examples of that behaviour. Please don't think all academics are judgmental, sure some are, but that is because of who they are, not because they are in academia.

Punishment, reward, negative reinforcement and positive reinforcement are very specific learning theory concepts and easily confused. I'm not sure you are clear on what they are corvus.

I haven't seen anyone slam pitbulls, but I have seen people slam irresponsible ownership. Until the issue of d******d owners is addressed we won't see BSL go away. No, I am not in here to cause trouble I actually do have an interest in BSL and how to eliminate it. I am involved in a project on owner characteristics and dog attacks so have a bit of knowledge on this. BSL is spreading in Australia, until people change their approach on how to fight it they will continue to lose the battle. I can't understand why the good pitbull owners aren't going after the rednecks with everything they have, THEY are the ones who are the cause of your problems.

Nope not true l have owned this breed for 13 years and still l cannot id them properly. That's why l asked you to define a pit bull. tybrax That is problematic for you then. So you are saying that no one can identify a pitbull then?

Lots of people agree that dogs that cause serious human injury should be PTS, whether it belongs to that magical "breed" the pitbull or another breed. You want to keep BSL alive and well then fight to keep dangerous dogs (note I said dogs) in our community. They are the ones, along with their owners that are the cause of your problems, not the newspapers. Everytime an irresponsible owner allows their dog to attack it drive that nail in a little bit harder. It is a shame that there can't be some perspective taking and tactics changed, the current attitude drives away other dog owners who don't believe in BSL either.