Are You Serious Jo

I'd take breed ID with a grain of salt if it weren't for what was in the news report. You are so determined to stick with the false report excuse that you are ignoring the fact that in this case, the owner has been involved in the story and probably does know what breed his dog is. Considering that most of the people who are the cause of BSL won't have an Am staff, but prefer pitbulls, we might see a bit of progress if pitbulls are bred out. Of course the bogan owners might then turn to staffies more, but they are still a recognised breed and have people who care enough about their breed to do the right thing. Let's just pray that once the irresponsible pitbull owners have caused the demise of their breed they go get pet rocks, because they shouldn't be allowed to own a dog, let alone one that can go so badly in the wrong hands.

The police spoke to the owner, they couldn't have made any attempt at IDing the dog as he had already removed it. Do you think the police just decided to say it was a pitbull, even though they hadn't seen the dog at all? Where do you think they go the breed from? Go back and read it again.

I'm not sure you have gotten the point. It was the owner that identified the dog as a pitbull, not the victims. In your case it was the victim, this is different.

Because pitbulls NEVER bite humans, don't you know. The owner mistakingly identified his dog, simple enough mistake to make

Don't underestimate the amount of damage irresponsible owners do to a breed's reputation. Unless people are willing to acknowledge that some breeds attract bad owners and that yes, these bad owners can be the cause of their dog being aggressive the war will not be won. I agree with PF, dress them up in silly costumes, emphasise that well bred dogs with good owners aren't the problem, and stop denying that there are problems with the dog/owner diad that means some of these dogs do bite humans. Imagine how ridiculous it would sound if people made claims that chihuahuas, cattle dogs and labradores never ever bit people. All dogs and breeds are capable of biting in the right circumstances, so if people drop the emotional hero worship of a breed that is just another dog you might find the fight easier to win.

I'm sorry you lost Ellie DA The little feral we rescued was also the nicest cat we have ever known, they do have big hearts.

Nice girl, great to see a working dog that hasn't lost the confirmation. If I were into dobes I'd be looking at importing from those lines for sure!

Please point out where I said a growling dog is always fear aggressive? The OP was concerned enough to ask about a behaviour and I mentioned that fear aggression was one possibility based on two things she described. Thankfully she was sensible enough to talk to a trainer as suggested. A growl does not automatically make it a bad dog and I can't remember anyone saying it did. What it does indicate is that someone who knows what they are talking about should assess the dog as the OP wasn't confident enough to determine what was behind the behaviour. Can you tell me what the hell is wrong with suggesting that an inexperienced person take something seriously, because a dog that growls can mean behavioral issues that would result in a bite in the wrong hands. Seriously, are you trying to tell me that dogs that have bitten people never ever growled first?

Heretic!

Fear aggressive dogs do growl. I don't know if this dog is fear aggressive, which is why I was careful to use the word "might" frequently. My dogs don't growl if I go near their food, if they did I would not accept this as normal and would rectify it. I am the last person to humanise an animal, but I will not accept aggression in my dogs towards humans and I would be concerned enough with this dog to have a professional trainer assess it. I certainly would not consider growling at humans ok by any stretch of the imagination. Again, I am unsure what you really mean as the above two statements are contradictory. Did you mean that fear aggression was not expressed by growling, as you said in the first bit?

I'd already suggested to see a trainer. I was responding to your post where you said you couldn't see growling as a problem. I don't agree that a growling dog is not a problem, and outlined why. The bits I have bolded prompted my reply as they seem to be at odds with each other. You seem to have said two different things.

I disagree with this, simply because there are too many people out there who would use it as a first option rather than a last option. Even as it stands now, people will try "bark" collars but will refuse to put one that delivers a static shock on the dog because it's considered "cruel". As long as it's done as a last option I don't care, but I agree with the restrictions on it and if anything I'd like them tightened. So do you see desexing as a last resort and restrictions put in place?

It is a problem if a dog who growls under pressure or fear goes to the average home that has no idea how to deal with this behaviour. What may be nothing to someone who is educated in dog behaviour and knows how to handle it becomes a time bomb in inexperienced hands. Some dogs carry out their threat when pushed, and you don't want the kid of some adopter finding this out the hard way.

Talk to the good trainers on here, but it might be the confined spaces are the issue and might be the best things to test. I don't want to recommend you do something if you aren't experienced enough, so ask specifically what you should do now. The dog might be fine when he feels he has an out, but fearful when he perceives he is trapped.

I wouldn't describe this dog as confident if he did show this behaviour as well as growling at the kennel manager in a strange situation. You need to probably have someone assess this dog as he could be fear aggressive in some circumstances.

I got it through uni, send me your email addy and I'll send it to you.

There should be 10 pages, do you have the whole paper? I am too braindead to concentrate, have given up reading a friends draft and can't even form a proper sentence so have to read the paper when I am clear headed.

Nah, I usually agree with most things you post

Shelter dogs and all desexed males, variables that could affect the results. I have it now so I'll review it a bit later today.

I'll see if I can access it, might have to order it if we don't subscribe to the journal. I'm already seeing red flags though with the posts.

I won't criticise anyone who recognises a dog is a difficult case and they are taking on too much, or that the poor dog is better off PTS. May is hardly what you call a difficult case, she is extremely ill and suffering quite a bit now.

I guess the concept of mentoring and learning from others with more experience is not for you. Poor dog, I hope she gets some relief soon.

I just hope that other new rescuers don't feel they will be critisied if they don't save everything with a pulse.

This is what I am talking about, she is suffering yet kept alive to make the humans feel better. Please do the kind thing and let her go, look at her poor face, she is in pain and sounds like she hasn't got a good prognosis. It's about the dog remember, not the humans.

Anyone who comes onto a public forum and sticks their hand out for money is accountable and if they don't want to be questioned they shouldn't ask for money in the first place. I think it is reasonable to ask in this case, as a living creature is involved, what would you have done if you didn't get donations to cover her vet costs, did you have a contingency plan in place to pay the vet if people didn't give money. My own opinion, it is risky for someone to pull a very sick dog and hope/assume others will pay for it. Emotion plays a role in rescue, but it is not enough to sustain it.