Joan of Arc

4kelpies thank you so much for all that info and for your encouragment and support. As I said before ... for years many people have commented on how healthy and fit our dogs are and they show, trial and work as gundogs... they are not overweight and in fact the Lab pup in question is considered to be a bit lean.. so that destroys thier weight arguement.

I think I will just keep doing what I have been doing for the next few days while I do some more investigations ... not sure about the calcium for the clumber though... what do you think?

Rebanne can tell you that my dogs are very healthy and I always thought we were doing the right thing but now someone has planted the seed of doubt...

yes beautiful healthy dogs

I have had that seed of doubt too, makes you 2nd guess everything you have done or didn't do!

Rebanne - have PMed you

is it 5ml per meal or 5ml per kg of pure meat? If the dog was getting no kibble and just pure meat then 5ml per 5kg is the daily dose.

Sorry Nekbhet - its 5ml per day.... and she is now about 12 kgs

why the extra calcium?

The dry food is balanced plus the bones are full of it.

This is part of the question.... only following the breeder's insturctions... never had a clumber before... not what I would do for a lab but....

so the labs aren't getting it? The diet is what you are feeding the clumber only?

The diet is exactly what the clumber and the lab pup get but teh clumber gets the calcium as well.

considering the pup is also getting kibble, 5mls of calcium per day on top of everything else sounds a lot.

What kind of mince are you feeding and how much? I would be feeding meat off the bone instead of pure mince or 'pet mince' and decrease how much they get. If they're nice and lean you shouldnt be over doing it

when I say mince, they usually get chopped beef or a chicken frame and the clumber gets chicken meat... not often mince.... and the labs get meat off the bone - lamb flaps or pelvis bones or meaty offcuts - but the breeder of the clumber said no chicken frames as they cant hanlde them... as I said to Rebanne, never had a clumber before so a real learning curve

I have never fed my dogs pet mince ...

Rebanne can tell you that my dogs are very healthy and I always thought we were doing the right thing but now someone has planted the seed of doubt...

why the extra calcium?

The dry food is balanced plus the bones are full of it.

This is part of the question.... only following the breeder's insturctions... never had a clumber before... not what I would do for a lab but....

I realise that 'diet' has been done to death here on DOL but we have had a health issue with one of our Labs and the vet has said that it could be a combination of things but that diet as part of the environment could have been an issue during the growing stage.

Both too much calcium and too much protein have been discussed and here is the question. We have a new baby Clumber and in converstation with our vets over the other issue with the Lab he recommended that we feed her a low protein diet to avoid excessive growth too early.

So my questions to the DOLers are:

What do you consider to be low protein?

How much protein should a pup have?

The vet said she should be having the large / heavy breed biscuits if we are feeding biscuits. Do you agree?

If you are feeding biscuits would you only feed biscuits and no additives?

What do you feed your dogs if they are a large breed?

Do you consider a Clumber Spaniel are larger / heavy breed?

As I said, its been done before but I am interested in people's responses and of course always prepared to share and absorb information.

Our dogs have always been healthy and strong and we usually feed a combination diet so our baby labs and the clumber at 16 weeks are fed twice a day and usually get:

Breakfast: 3/4 cup of biscuits ( currently using Advance and switching for Puppy Growth Plus to Large / Giant breeds so about 1/2 cup of PGP and 1/4 to 1/2 of Large breed) and some mince or chicken meat or maybe a neck - and a slurp of yoghurt.

Dinner: cup of mixed biscuits and some chopped beef or chicken, a teaspoon of glaucosamine, a 1/4 teaspoon ester C and 5 mls troy calcium. One night a week they get an egg, one night they get a tin of sardines. Every second night the babies get a lamb bone to chew.

So any suggestions, condemnations or alterations are gratefully accepted

Are we talking 'personal' items or show equipment?

Oh GOd!! I just started a list for you and then thought s*#t this is a looooong list and that was just for me.

Equipment? One day or ten you take the same stuff

Deleted because I found the info....

and another one of Rosie

We had a lovely day at Gundagai yesterday - warmish weather, light wind, and Rosie came 2nd in 3 -6 months sweepies. A bit frustrated that the class in group seemed to be decided before we entered the ring but she was still a sweetie and we are very happy with her....

I am trying to locate a copy of the series of DVDs by David Lissett on gundog training... can anyone help me...

here is our baby Rosie who made her debut yesterday ... only one of the breed so nothing much to report but she took everything in her stride.

Weather was good ..no rain

Group

1......Havanese / Pug

2......Airedale / Irish Terrier

3......Cocker / Bolwarra Saint Nick (Markotany) R/U ?

4...... ? / ?

5.......Sheltie / ?

6........Boxer / ?

7.......Jap Spitz / Jap Spitz

Hope someone can fill in the blanks..........left before GS..........

How gorgeous a big black oversized CLUMBER SPANIEL

I'm with pf, only free play until about 3 months and then 5 minutes per month until 12 months. No agility or jumping over anything higher than the bottom line of thier stomach unti l18 months - only what they do naturally like jumping on the lounge :rolleyes:

Do you mind if I ask a 100% dumb question, I am not being facetious, I just want to know.....

how exactly do gundogs "work" seeing as guns are banned in this country?

Guns are not banned in this country and you can shoot birds over dogs in Victoria at least. You can shoot fur (rabbit) on private property in most states I think,

You can also do field work and retrieving work towards titles.

Mercedes, here's an English photo of working Clumbers - far less heavy in body, coat and flew than what we see in the ring out here IMO.

They're not? I honestly thought they were. What was with the gun amnesty a decade or so ago then?

What do you mean "shoot over dogs"?

Gaylek let me try to describe it to you...

firstly it was not all FIREARMS but only certain types such as semi automatics and certain calibres that were banned. To shoot today you must have a licence, be a member or a regular organised club and in NSW have a mandatory number or attendances at that club to justify the keeping your licence. You must also have a valid reason for applying for a licence in teh first instance... such as hunting and / or target shooting... think about the logic of banning fireames - where would our olympic standard shooters come from?

When we shoot over our dogs they are already extremely well trained, not only in obedience work but also in field work - just as spotted devil is training her dog now - the animal sits beside you (this is a gundog) and waits for instructions and they depend on whether she is a retriever, flusher, pointer or utility gundog.... lets look at a Labrador

She sits beside me and waits for me to fire ... I aim and shoot at a rabbit, or duck during duck season,... she watches me and eyes the target (what I have shot) and when I send her, she swims out to the duck, picks it up and returns to sit in front of me and gives it to me.

Hounds work slightly differently and I will leave that up to a hound person to explain to you....

PF ---

Great photo .... dont you think they are spectacular animals... but I have to admit they are more destrcutive than Labradors and have a strong will.

some of the difference comes from the fact that these dogs get far more exercise, so it is not exactly different lines.. we have a couple of bitches here that we shoot over and when the season is on they are much leaner than normal ... as would we all if we ran and swam all day :D Despit the fact that we actually increase thier meals a little during the season.

Casperoz you are correct in some ways about the damage from being overweight... like all breeds that are or could be classified as giant breeds they have to be kept a bit lean as pups and of course you can not over exercise them as babies.. However the same should be said for any puppy.... a Lab if over exercised as a pup is just as likely to have hip trouble and no doubt that goes for many if not all breeds..

They can have very sobering hip scores.

Not a dog to overfeed or over exercise as a pup or allow to be anything other than lean IMO.

I prefer the working ones (ligher in type) but there are none of those here that I'm aware of. Pity.

Pf there are a couple who are working thier Clumbers and my girl is in training to work... she will show also but she is a gundog and I expect any gundog to be able to earn its keep so to speak... if it wont work then its not a good example of the breed.

Oh Ceilidh, words wont help I know, but, he is in good company over the bridge :p

Clumbers are a large dog, around 35 kg and the size of a small Labrador - about 19 inches they are very fast over open ground, are very loyal and loving dogs.

They are affectionate and a real peoples dog but they are a gundog and do need exercise despite thier lazy outlook.

Jed I assume that your friends are the people from whom my new Clumber baby came from ... they have exhibited some new babies just yesterday and today. If this is the same people then my baby is from the same litter.

See if this link works

She can sign into bigpond tho the web page..

I did mention that TS but it appears there is also a hiccup with that and Bigpond... go figure....

anyway she has suggested you all try this email address

mailto:[email protected]

Please note the change in the spelling ---- as it is connected to the laptop....

have just spoken to Janelle and she has confirmed that her computer died and she is only on the laptop and cannot receive emails.

mobile 0427 736882 or 07 32000720 till Wednesday.

She aplogises to everyone but hopes this helps

Good question really.

I have an almost 8mth Lab girl whose topline at 8 weeks was spectacular and now looks like a section of the big dipper... but she also is bum high and at that growing spurt age...

Her parents and grandparents had great toplines so I will interested to see what happens over the next 3 months..

I would have thougth that by 11 - 12 months what you see is what you get....

Posting this here because most of us use crates every week.

We have several crates that are only about 2 yrs old but they have small spring steel clips that act as hinges and hold the different panels together. These clips have come loose and we have lost some, after spending hours trying chase them I cant find them anywhere.

I have been to upholsterers and mattress makers who use very similar clips but nothing that big.

Was hoping someone here might know where to buy them or have an alternative.

i will try and post a photo of them....

hi there I had the same problem, I went down to the hardwarestore & got some small D shackles normaly found in the isle with clips & chains. I found them better

Murve I think you are thinking of different clips than Mercedes was. I am also after some clips. The ones I am after look like they are made from flat metal and wrap around the wire panel to act as a hinge. I need some for some fence kits I have here. But I have not been able to find any yet.

Exactly ....

I went to upholsterers and they told me they were like something that was used 100 yrs ago... figures if the crates come from OS>>>>>

Seems to me there's an avenue here for someone to set up a spare parts office