SkySoaringMagpie

We show three breeds. The Salukis are mine, the Afghans are OH's, and the IW was a surprise in many ways. With Salukis, they are my heart breed, I study them, I love them, they are what I intend to base my breeding program around and eventually I would like to judge them. The Salukis belong to me and are in my name only. The Afghans belong to OH and are from someone who breeds for what we would breed for if we were going to breed. She is a lot more experienced and a lot better at it. So we're happy to show the dogs she breeds and have no desire to dip our toes in the water breeding wise while she is still around. The Wolfhound came out of left field, but IW's suit OH, and again, it's a situation where we're happy to show, but probably won't breed ourselves - will leave that to others. Those who know us know that once a dog is with us, they stay with us. So while we have three breeds, we don't turf dogs if they don't win enough in the first 6 months. In our breeds that would be foolishness anyway. We have shelves full of books on our breeds, and we will talk IWs, Afghans and Salukis with anyone who stands still long enough :D So it's not a passing fad, any of them. I think there is a lot to be said for becoming familiar with more than one breed, learning about other breeds helps you gain a better understanding of your chosen breed. However, I also agree that there are people out there that churn through whatever breed/kennel they think will get them the most fringies and sometimes breed in the same style - a lot of breeds but no depth. That's not a smart idea, apart from anything else, the dogs that don't quite make it in a breed have a lot to teach you about what you need to do to go to the next level in that breed.

Some comments about lure coursing. No it's not the same as live prey, but it's a good test of stamina and agility that is closer to triggering the "natural" instinct of a sighthound than other tests of stamina and agility. A dog that doesn't chase on the first exposure to the lure can wind up a senior coursing champion. There is some work to be done sometimes in making the desire to chase "go live" but it can be done. I've also seen dogs that are too smart for the lure, but IMO they still enjoy working in pairs and can get a great deal of enjoyment out of chasing, even if they'd score poorly in a trial. There is also often a false dichotomy posed. I have seen dogs that are great on the lure and crap on live prey, dogs that are great on live prey and crap on the lure, and importantly, dogs that are hot shots on the lure AND on live prey. It is not either/or. If you offered me a puppy from a show only breeder, and a puppy from a show + lure coursing breeder, all things being equal I would pick the latter every time. I have a great deal of admiration for the Windrush (USA) and Hadi el Basher (Europe) kennels who are successful both in the show ring and on the lure coursing field.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/animals/the-dark-side-of-puppy-farming-20120316-1vaav.html The dark side of puppy farming Stephanie Gardiner March 16, 2012 - 5:01PM Read later Lucky dog ... Gidget now and, inset, how she was when found in squalid conditions at a Sydney breeder. Photo: Animal Welfare League NSW More on puppy farms Among 42 dogs found in a dark, dank, maggot-filled shed was Gidget, a miniature poodle with fur so matted and dirty it caused painful eye and ear infections. Looking at Gidget today, with her round belly and manicured fur, it's hard to believe she was ever the victim of a cruel backyard breeder in Sydney's north-west. Advertisement: Story continues below Gidget and the other dogs were recently seized from the property in Londonderry by Animal Welfare League NSW inspector Ian Hughes. The dogs had no water in their cages, which were filled with faeces and maggots. "It was quite dark ... there was just some light in there coming through some slats," Mr Hughes said. "You can imagine the temperature in the middle of summer ... you could be talking about 50 or 55 degrees inside. It's hot enough to kill animals." The Londonderry backyard breeder was fined more than $3000 in Penrith Local Court on February 27, for offences including "fail to exercise care", according to court papers. Mr Hughes and the inspectors regularly dealt with similar cases. "You go inside these houses and the smell stays on your feet for weeks; you wouldn't believe the squalor," he said. "I know there are hundreds of animals out there that I will never come across and that's heartbreaking. "People will never see them. "They're the ones that keep you awake at night." The Animal Welfare League has released details of a proposed breeder licensing scheme that could put a stop to cruel backyard breeders, puppy farms and anyone keeping large groups of dogs in a state of neglect. The scheme would require anyone in NSW selling or transferring a dog - including those online - to quote a breeder licence number. The licence number would be given to breeders whose premises have been inspected for a fee of between $300 and $500, which would go towards funding the cost of all inspections. Inspectors would also monitor animal welfare standards by making annual unannounced visits to breeders. Under the proposed user-pays scheme, people who buy dogs would be able to check on where they came from by using an online register. Animal Welfare League NSW chief executive, Tim Vasudeva, said the Londonderry case also highlighted the need for tougher legislation against people who are keeping animals in poor conditions. Mr Vasudeva said there were many good breeders out there, but a licensing scheme had to include all dog breeders or people would continue to abuse the system. "At this point in time the system that we have is not an effective one, as there is no transparency around where puppies have come from and people don't know if they're supporting cruelty when they adopt a new puppy." Mr Vasudeva said the scheme would stop cruel breeders and puppy farms from slipping past authorities. "We were lucky to find these dogs at Londonderry thanks to a tip-off from the public, but many more dogs are still trapped in conditions just like it. "The scheme would mean these cruel operators are no longer able to hide." The proposal is before the NSW companion animals taskforce, which is soon to release a discussion paper. Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/animals/the-dark-side-of-puppy-farming-20120316-1vaav.html#ixzz1pGuOEsar

Quite a few sighthounds won't course a plastic bag. And live game is out. I call lure coursing and indicator of function but by no means a definitive method of proving it. Coursing lures don't move like hares either. Lure is not the same as open field, but it is the best we have. I'd like to see it available as a recognised activity. Can't really speak for whippets but as I've harped here before on many occasions, all the "long distance" breeds should be able to do an ET. By long distance I mean dallies, sibes, salukis etc.

www.dogstardaily.com - browse this site in depth, particularly the link under "Training Textbook" titled "Raising a Puppy" And I agree with showdog, ask the breeder - if you're worried about hassling her, email instead of phone.

There was a note in with the numbers saying contact details for the show sec had changed. My numbers are at home but perhaps someone here can give you the phone number.

I think Beauie has said it best in the Irish Wolfhound thread, so I will simply quote her: As some of you may already know, the Irish Wolfhound world has lost a very special young lady, whom loved life & her beloved hounds. She fought a very brave battle & gave her all. They say only the good die young and well, Irish Lassy (Tara) was that. RIP sweet Tara, your many friends will miss you

The NEC where Crufts is held is not hot and stuffy, they have good air con throughout the halls where the breed rings are, some areas a little warmer, some cooler, but still not so hot a person can still walk around in a jumper. Even the BIS ring isn't warm, even under the lights - I have shown in that ring twice in breeders stakes finals which are just before they did the groups. The arena is also where they hold a lot of concerts, so they are used to that hall being well filled by lots of people and lighting. Thank you, I had mentioned upthread that it certainly wasn't hot or stuffy when I was there last year. Nothing near most Australian shows in summer, which many people happily trot off to.

Posting this just because it's beautiful, best dogs in the world ;)

Oh well, Borzoi still lovely :)

Best In Show Judge: Mr Frank Kane CH ZENTARR ELIZABETH Lhasa Apso Bitch Owner: MRS M ANDERSON R/up MULTI/INT/SK/POL/CRO/HUN/DK/CZ/AU CH KING OF HELLULAND FEEL THE WIN [ATC AM00991SVK] Newfoundland Dog Owner: MR V & MRS S KROCKOVCI

Would it get up under the current State Government? At some point someone needs to make the call about when we start writing to our elected representatives. Assume that would be the ANKC/DogsNSW but I don't want to give these idiots credence if they don't have a hope of getting a hearing.

It's not up on the site yet, but I understand the Neo also failed.

That wasn't my experience at all, I recall it being very pleasant.

What message do you think is being sent? The message I get is "we're taking this seriously and regulating ourselves now". Thats not the message I'm getting and doubtful the one the public will get either. Its saying to me that purebred dogs which are bred for the way they look are sick. Whats more most people with two eyes in their head and who are not blinded by the culture can see it and have seen it for years. The thing they control is the judges and they should have thought this out better rather than make public sacrifices. So it's what, 3 dogs, out of all the hundreds of BOB's that will compete for Best in Show? I'm going to have go and straw poll my nondoggie friends and relatives again.

What message do you think is being sent? The message I get is "we're taking this seriously and regulating ourselves now".

Perhaps as far as you are concerned she is, but there are many who still think there is no problem except one of PR created by animal rights nutters.

We have an IW. It's not a huge issue for us, dogs don't live as long as humans so it's a given they will probably pass before we do, whether after 10 years or 15 years. I think with the shorter lived breeds there is a lot to be said for going to an ethical breeder. I also think that with breeds that have a reputation for long life, you do get some lines where dogs are turned over quickly, the breeding is slipshod and the dog could easily die young anyway. Ultimately there are no guarantees, you can only improve the odds as best you can. One method of improving the odds is to go for a long lived breed, but that will be pointless if not accompanied by responsible breeding and responsible pet ownership.

Most sensible thing written in the thread so far.

Interesting. I hope someone poses the question to the KC about scars and vet checks then. Some of the hound breeds are routinely shown at Crufts with scars on their bodies and some standards explicitly permit "honourable" hunting scars. We'll wait and see what Sunday brings I suppose tho' I expect a vet would be looking for scars that indicate previous surgery rather than injury scars? I'm no bulldog expert tho'. Edited to say I'm a numpty, should have realised that scars aren't an issue in of themselves, but alleged signs of previous surgery or damage to the eye arising from poor conformation might be.

Look, I don't know enough about this to do much more than pose more questions, but both you and Dog Geek have talked about the blunt nature of this approach. If I've learned anything from my time in dog world, it is that many dog people are impervious to tact and diplomacy, and even to direct speech and facts. Just look at some of the GSD threads we've had here. The KC would have known exactly what kind of hornets nest it was kicking when it set this into play. I suspect part of what is going on is transparency as well as expense. The lower level the vet checks, the more vets with varying opinions, and the easier it might be to establish corrupt workarounds. The higher level the vet checks, the more visible they are, the harder they are to influence and the greater impact they have. Plus it sets the onus back on the breeder not to present an iffy dog, rather than them relying on getting through a lottery of lower level checks. I do agree that perhaps a panel of independent vets might be the best way to go. As someone has already posted, we are never going to know the grounds on which the dogs were failed, but there are strong arguments for privacy just as there are strong arguments for disclosure - I would have to think about it quite a bit more before deciding which way I was going to fall. I suspect disclosure would involve some fundamental changes in dog world culture that people would have to sign up to when they enter shows so that they have a choice about whether to enter and risk disclosure, or not enter and maintain privacy. My main concern with non-disclosure is that I'm already seeing people saying on FB that the reasons they were given were minor and not related to extreme breeding. We have no way of verifying that and we all know from more mundane refusals back here that the exhibitor version of events and the judge version of events rarely bear much resemblance to each other.

Somewhere in the mess of quotes earlier in the thread is some discussion about the difference between extreme preparation and extreme breeding. I think extreme preparation can also not be in the interests of the dog's health and welfare. I can't comment on Cresteds as I don't own them, but dogs with excessively long coat are one example. As for the current shit storm, you know, I'm not sure this is the right way to do it, but to date people have shown they are incapable of making changes without someone using a stick of some kind. If this is what it takes to stop people breeding dogs that sound like a steam train at rest, let alone on the move, well, perhaps this is what it has to take.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-09/dog-fence-flooding/3879362?section=sa Floodwaters have washed away large parts of the dog fence in outback South Australia. It stretches thousands of kilometres as a barrier to dingoes, which are a declared pest in southern parts of Australia. Soggy conditions are restricting access for vehicles, meaning the fence might not be fixed for weeks. Station owner and chairman of the Marree Dog Fence Board, Peter Litchfield, said it was bad news for sheep producers who were already battling high numbers of dingoes on their properties. "We have a constant problem here. We've had 14 dingoes on our property inside the fence here since the first of December," he said. "We average one a week." - ABC Rural

But some of them have no teeth. My guess is that perhaps there may be an alternate view that a dog with primitive detention that loses teeth at an early age may be considered a "health issue" by some outside the breed. And its only a guess but no other breed feature I can identify would promote veterinary interest Epilation for show ring preparation was what Jemima Harrison had in her sights.

Interesting, is there any consequence for being absent at Crufts as there is from an Australian Royal? If not I'm guessing there will be swags of absentees now in some of the other targeted breeds. FB says the chow and the pug passed btw.