The Spotted Devil

OK - so what I have done is taught Zig that working = NO sniffing and NO peeing. Start small - ask for a few seconds of attention and then take him away from the area and release to sniff and pee. Extend the amount of time you ask for attention. No matter what you do, you MUST keep your dog engaged and focussed the whole time you are training. Keep him running hard and highly motivated during training - food, tug, toys, whatever it takes. Do not turn your back on him if he mucks up (or you muck up!) or to talk to a trainer. If the instructor or judge talks to me I either put Zig on a sit stay (which is very solid) or talk to the instructor and interact with Zig the whole time. He is not permitted to do his own thing until I say so. This means that we heel into the agility ring, run out to the bait bag and he is not released between exercises in obedience - verbal praise but we heel back to the starting peg. He loves that once he's had his treat for running the course we race over to the trees and he pees and scrapes and sniffs to his heart content ETA: It also relaxes him if he gets a chance to have a good sniff and pee before we trial/train as well. Back in his crate or tied up for a rest, out for a tug/heel session and then into the ring.

Oh, this is an endless debate I have in my head I don't play tug at the moment because she has such a lovely mouth for retrieving and I don't want to risk ruining it. I do know people who do retrieving (very successfully) and tug with their dogs and I do believe dogs can discriminate but she's my first retrieving dog so I'm playing it safe The only time I use it is after the occasional dreaded ear drops - nothing makes her forget them more quickly than a game of tug. She tugs like a fiend with Ziggy too!!! JulesP - Amber is a poppet, even if she doesn't have any coat Funniest thing tonight....it took me 12 months to get Zig to pick up the dumbbell and a good 2 years to get him to retrieve with his current enthusiasm. Em saw the dumbbell on the ground tonight, shot out, picked it up and brought it straight to me ;) I know she's wired to do that but that's a heck of a lot of time I've just saved ETA: JulesP - have you played the steady feet game with Amber much? I'm not even close to getting the pup yet and already having the debate! Only retrieving isn't a big goal for me - I am aiming at Utility Gundog test which involves retrieveing but I mainly want an agility/obedience dog performance wise I know tug isn't the be and end all but... all the agility propoganda DVD's and books would have me believe otherwise Yes I know, it's a very tough call. But my Dally is trained 90% with food, 10% with tug and I saw a lovely working ESS competing in novice jumping on Saturday night. As soon as her run was finished, her owner raced over to the grassed area and threw multiple retrieve items for her - she was certainly NOT lacking in drive or focus I figure, get started in retrieving first, work on all the obedience and agility skills and introduce tug later if you feel the need when the habit of a soft mouth is strong.

Do you have a problem with him peeing on the walk as well? In terms of the house, dogs don't tend to generalise very well. If there has been another dog in the house, the urge to pee might be overwhelming. When I moved here, the previous owners' dogs had been inside and clearly their smell was everywhere (I think they probably had peed on the carpet). Zig was beside himself. He has a command for toileting, so every 5 mins I took him outside, gave him his wee command, praised heavily and then brought him inside and got him to relax on his bed. When you are in a strange house, you could keep him on lead, or even better pop him in a crate - make sure he finds the crate a very rewarding place to be (food or whatever) and he learns to relax in there.

Because I met Em-Puppy?, lol Yes She's all grown up now anyway. Definitely not very cute

Oh, this is an endless debate I have in my head I don't play tug at the moment because she has such a lovely mouth for retrieving and I don't want to risk ruining it. I do know people who do retrieving (very successfully) and tug with their dogs and I do believe dogs can discriminate but she's my first retrieving dog so I'm playing it safe The only time I use it is after the occasional dreaded ear drops - nothing makes her forget them more quickly than a game of tug. She tugs like a fiend with Ziggy too!!! JulesP - Amber is a poppet, even if she doesn't have any coat ;) Funniest thing tonight....it took me 12 months to get Zig to pick up the dumbbell and a good 2 years to get him to retrieve with his current enthusiasm. Em saw the dumbbell on the ground tonight, shot out, picked it up and brought it straight to me I know she's wired to do that but that's a heck of a lot of time I've just saved ETA: JulesP - have you played the steady feet game with Amber much?

After a bit of a break from obedience (concentrating on agility/jumping) I went to training tonight and Mr Prancy - Spotted Pony - Pants turned up for his ring run through He was so much fun - we lost some accuracy but I didn't give a hoot. Fortunately my foot work has improved too although it still needs some work. Tried a retrieve over a (low) jump and Zig looked at me like I was completely nuts the first few times (as in, where is the rest of the course???) but then he was fine. Em did some "find heel", "one step, two steps", a lovely recall and a bit of retrieving. So much fun!

You see some incredibly high drive dogs doing agility but it takes a very talented person to train/handle those dogs correctly so that they don't get frustrated. They all come with their own challenges

ons - put simply drive is about how motivated a dog is to seek out things it finds rewarding - food, herd, retrieve, tug, human contact, canine contact etc - all those things the huge variety of dog breeds are designed to do. When I started training Ziggy for obedience he just didn't really care about any of those - it was around the dreaded 9 month age too, which didn't help and, had I known what I know now, I would have used different training techniques earlier on. So to increase motivation you can use particular training tools - deny the dog access to things it finds rewarding unless it performs a behaviour first. I ended up feeding all Zig's food to him in training (he eats a lot so there were a lot of jackpots!) and when we took the training to the park I'd use the highest value treats I could come up with, ask for a behaviour, reinforce the behaviour with food and then release him to sniff and pee on things. If he didn't give me anything I'd just pop him back in the car and go home. It started off with him giving only a few seconds of attention and we built it up from there. I used the 2 food game to build motivation, despite being told that it would make him sniff the ground for treats (it didn't). I don't just want obedience but enthusiasm and enjoyment. I don't want a Q in the ring if he is lacklustre and switched off. As I said, we are both learning and have a long way to go. He will even tug before an agility run which is great because he gets really hyped up and focussed but I will only use it on the first few runs, otherwise it becomes an aversive. Then I switch to food only. It took me MONTHS to get him tugging away from home and even longer to pick up a dumbbell. I make sure he is fit and then rested the day before the trial. If it's hot he has a cool coat. If it's cool he has a warm coat. He has up to 5 cups of dry food for dinner. The night before a trial he gets half that. After a run in agility or obedience he gets high value treats and then he gets to sniff and mark his territory. Now I think he does have a higher level of "drive" and he seems to really enjoy training and trialling. As I said - just my personal experience. ETA: Em is hilarious. Food? Yep! Retrieve? Yep! Tug? Yep! Play? Yep! Cuddles? Oh yeh It brings a different challenge as has been said - she finds birds very motivating. Fine for retrieving but not so great when she is getting dive bombed while doing a sit stay

Go for it RS! I'm so excited! Just had a huge box turn up from the USA full of the dummies I ordered Even got some "Dalmatian" patterned ones so Ziggy can do retrieving training in spirit at least

I saw a dog described on an agility list as being "high energy - low drive" and the description matched my Dalmatian perfectly. As a youngster he had energy to burn but Dallies are not bred to work closely with people - very independent and aloof and really couldn't give a toss. Not bothered by pats or toys or food. But I have worked and experimented and succeeded and failed on every aspect I can think of. Ziggy has his CCD (3 x 1st place and 90 + scores), 2 legs of his CD (1st & 2nd. Nearly got his 3rd Q with a 198 but I blew it!), his AD (4 x 1st), his JD (2nd, 2 x 3rd, 1 x 4th), 2 JDO passes and 1 JDX pass (1st place). I'm sure when people see him they don't immediately think "low drive" but they only see the end result and not the blood, sweat and tears that got us there The older he gets, the more refined my techniques become and the harder he works in the ring. He will never have the attitude of some of the high drive dogs but I'm absolutely delighted with him. In some ways his steadiness can be a real bonus - rarely knocks a bar when jumping and never takes himself off course without me causing it through poor handling. If he is confident and truly understands the exercise he will do it to the best of his ability. Training my (high energy - high drive) youngster at the moment is certainly a shock to the system I wouldn't like to speak in general terms - this is just my personal experience. ETA: He does, as my show trainer loved to say, have an extraordinarily high micturition drive. And yes I do use that as a reward

Can you teach her an alternative behaviour? Like fetching a toy or playing tug or nose touches? Just a thought as it's often easier to distract and redirect rather than stop the behaviour.

As a previous owner... A sniff of Beagles

Article here

Hmmm..... A wag of Dalmatians A mud bath of Springers

That's great huski What did you win in the bet?

I agree with TN. I've never had a problem with sitting in the show ring - different leads, situational cues etc. One thing to think about is your footwork in obedience. I found Zig surged ahead a bit until I fixed my footwork - can't even remember what I was doing wrong to be honest because it's become second nature now. Be patient - you will get there

I've never withheld water although, technically, once Em goes to her crate at night (10-11pm) she can't access it. On a very hot night I leave her crate door open and provide a mat and bowl of water next to my bed. Routine helps with pup settling too - last meal at around 7pm (good training session to burn off all that energy), try to have some down time, final toilet stop before bed and a biscuit to go to bed with. Zig's crate is open all the time.

Not sure if you want to do dog sports but this is still a lovely book: "The Focussed Puppy" - free shipping from the Clean Run website last time I checked. A lot of things I already knew but it gave me a fresh perspective on a few things and a few new exercises.

Thanks FHRP and Tassie! I'm so chuffed Go Rogan That's awesome - can you tell us more please? Norty brown dog

ness, I guess that's the difficulty in retrieving because it is incredibly self-rewarding and is done at such a distance. It's very easy for a dog to 'blow the handler off' because they think they KNOW where the bird/dummy is. Not good when they have to be picked up in the right order or you get DQ'd!!! But that comes back to taking each step really, really, really slowly, proofing the daylights out of it and not putting the dog in the situation where it thinks it has a choice to make a decision - Lablover has good advice about that and I am learning not to jump ahead in training. In terms of balance of rewards I love the precision of food (and am also more familiar with it as a training aid) so have certainly trained that from the start with Em. She'll take anything you offer - food, play, squeaky toy, retrieve and cuddles. ETA: She also tugs like a fiend but I'm not experienced enough to risk ruining her lovely mouth so will hold off on that for a while.

It's really interesting now that I've gone to the dark side (i.e. retrieving) The dogs are super keen to retrieve and we often throw a "happy bumper" as a reward for a nice present or nice handling etc. They still don't mind gobbling up some chicken though if presented with it

Hi Seita - just curious as to why you don't want him to view the retrieve as a reward? My 2 dogs are at either end of the spectrum in terms of love/hate relationship with retrieving and I don't really have a perspective on which is easier

That's awesome TN Huge congratulations to you and young Jedi!!! Thanks Ptolomy, ness, TN, RS :D Thought I'd post an action shot of the lad..... I arrived home at 1.30pm and Mr TSD tells me that was the first he'd seen of Ziggy all day :D

We had a fantastic time last night at K9 Agility's Twilight trial. Very relaxed atmosphere and the rain stayed away for most of the night. Zig ran really well in Open Jumping but we couldn't handle the distance challenge (handler had to decel hard out of the tunnel and Zig read me perfectly and pulled off the jump ). However he absolutely flew around the Excellent Jumping course and, with 5 s to spare, he gained his first pass and 1st place We were next to last to run the course and the fact that we got a big cheer from the stewards only made sense when I found he was the only dog to run clear I wish I had videoed it as the course felt lovely and smooth to run. ETA: 1.30am by the time I made it to bed. Funny how a nice run can make a 6am start seem not so bad

retrieval is a different kettle of fish. You want the dog to focus on the bird/toy as the prey item so they can find and retrieve it at speed and dont lose the bird. Hence why many hunters use live birds during training, to engage the dog to focus and actively seek the item wherever it is. Retrieving (trialling) is more about a dog bring able to mark (memory) and take straight lines as there are often several birds that must be picked up in order. What you describe sounds a little more like field trials but that's not my thing. We definitely use dead birds too. But that's beside the point. Vickie described it better than I could but for me, who trains/competes in agility, obedience and retrieving, my point is that a reward is a reward is a reward. The retrieving dog in training is taught that looking forward (and straight) earns the reward. No I wouldn't throw a toy to teach the sendaway in obedience because it's a completely different exercise but I do use it in agility. My dog beat me to the finish line by several jumps last night with that 'go forward' training (I use a food pouch not a toy). In agility we spend a lot of time teaching our dogs to read body language - shoulders, decel, etc. so you need something that makes them disregard body language (ie we can't keep up) take the cue and run like hell. Had I thought to use that cue in Open Jumping last night it might have helped us nail a tough distance challenge - straight out of the tunnel, handler forced to decel due to the 'line' and a lot of dogs read the handler perfectly and pulled off the jump. I've also found that tossing a food bag or large biscuit coming out of the weavers has given Zig so much forward momentum and a surprising amount of independence, confidence and concentration, allowing me to get in position more quickly. When pup starts agility I'll use a lot of toy throwing as I don't want to encourage too much tugging at a young age - although I do think dogs do context very well, I'll wait until her retrieving skills are more solid.