aatainc

I have a generic alternative to sasha's blend here: it's glucosamine, chondroitin sulphate, MSM and green lipped mussel extract. For a 20-40kg dog, 2 month's supply costs only $12.20. You can even buy in bulk for better savings. I have changed from sasha's blend to this glucosamine plus and can't tell the difference - i.e - the dog is just as good as he was after starting sasha's blend in the first place. Honestly, I dont' know how they can justify the cost of that stuff.

Rappie, don't be mean! I have been pondering these questions myself for quite some time in order to decide what we will sell to our customers, now that advantage duo is taken off the market. I don't like all in one products either. Be aware Advocate misses out on one important parasite: Tapeworm. (including hydatids.) Dogs can get these from other dogs and from eating offal, so especially if you are in a rural environment, do give a tapewormer (or any allwormer) quarterly just as you normally would for drontal. Given that you have to do this, I don't find Advocate that convenient at all. We have found a generic alternative to heartgard. It's the same amount of ivermectin as in heartgard, and it's even cheaper than proheart (depending on the size of your dog) for a dog 1-12kg, 6 month's is $8.82 For 12-24kg dogs, 6 month's supply is $17.65 for 24-36kg dogs, 6 months' supply is $22.20 for 36-48kg dogs, 6 month's supply is $29.80 This stuff is also available in bulk, so for people with big dogs or multiple dogs, or if I got enough orders that I could split up a bulk pack, it works out to $2 per tablet!! That's really cheap. (One tablet treats a 24kg dog, it works like drontal, you halve it for a 12kg dog, double it for a 48kg dog etc.) For wormers drontal really is the best, but also quite expensive - you can pay up to $5 per tablet. Endogard is also quite good, if you buy the bigger tablets and split them it works out to $3 per 10kg tablet. Then you can go to more generic brands, which can go as low as $1.70 per 10kg tablet - but it always depends on what sort of bulk you buy in. We stock all of these but I still recommend you use drontal for at least one of your wormings each year. For fleas, I think advantage is the best and cheapest. Not counting things like excelpet which stink to high heaven and often don't work too well. Sentinel is great for convenience as it does do tapeworm (unlike advocate) and it's $70 for the 6 month pack for dogs 0-4kg, $75 for 4-11, $80 for 11-22kg etc. Expensive stuff!! BTW, I would avoid the annual heartworm injection - there are reports of problems in the USA with it. At least be careful until more research has been done into these cases. *If enough DOLer's want to get together to make it worthwhile, I would be happy to get a 50tab pack of generic heartgard (just called monthly heartworm chews) and distribute it around for $2 per tablet. (12-24kg tabs) That would work out to only $12 for 6 months heartworm for 12-24kg dogs. Pretty cheap. If enough people are interested I could do this. Similarly, I could do allwormer tabs for $1.30 each (10kg tabs). I would need about 5 people to make it work though.*

Hi, ok, shall clarify. Please to the FLOOD of people that have emailed me for the diet sheet (over 10 of you!) can you email, rather than pm me, as my pm box is starting to get full and I don't want to delete my messages, and also, it's easier just to push reply in outlook. Also, can you please state whether you want the puppy version or the adult as they're in 2 separate documents. I didn't think I'd get this flooded. I should have charged!

If there's not many things being given to dogs with Vit C and E in them, then change the diet! The vit C is less of a concern though as dogs do produce it. Billinghurst does actually recommend a vitamin E supplement I believe but I personally dont' bother. Steve has explained what I meant about feeding plain meat as dangerous. Dogs are different in their requirements to humans. In a lot of ways, yes, you can compare the two, but dont' automatically assume it works. As for clinical trials, she hasn't cited any actual studies on her website, which I find odd, if genuine clinical trials have been conducted - they would have been officially written up. BARF diets produce exactly the same results she's listed. and we have heaps of proof of that from BARFers here in Aussie. The practical experience of DOLers amounts to hundreds of dogs fed BARF that have all done very well. In fact, I have not heard of even one report from a DOLer that they changed their dogs over to a good quality BARF diet and results did not improve. Myself alone, I have case studies from 43 dogs fed BARF. (my own case studies, not formally recorded - but I should one day!) I also have a nutritional analysis of my BARF formula which shows that the balance of my diet for protein, calcium, phosphorous etc is exactly within the guidelines put out by the National Research Council for nutrient requirements of dogs. I got a very high mark for that paper from the fac. of ag. and vet sciences so I trust my results. Honestly, the main problem with this diet is the grain. There's far too much, like steve said, it's just not natural. Note: her results of increased longevity, less muscular problems are compared to a commercial diet. BARF would probably do even better!

Toohey is right, the shorter length of the gut makes a big difference. Also, what steve said, ALL of us have e-coli all through our houses, food, and bodies. No biggie, unless you're immunocompromised. Fin, and anyone, my BARF diet is free for anyone who wishes to email me for it. It has worked very well for me with over 40 dogs in the last 4 years.

Celidh, I suspect perhaps this is because human's share more diseases with humans than they do with dogs? Interesting, thanks. Fin, go to the thread "overweight cavalier" and read the long long post I posted there - it helps refute some of the worries about raw food. As for e-coli - if you feed human quality food it is rarely a risk. My mother in law is a top microbiologist in australia - and she feeds her dog raw chicken all the time! It is important to teach dogs not to touch children's faces, however you also need to think about your child's immune system. If I had an immunocompromised child I'd be a lot more worried - but kids will develop some resistance to these bugs too and overall, this low level long term exposure will make them stronger. I train assistance dogs. I go out everyday and feed my dogs treats out of my bumbag. I'm pretty much finding myself covered in slobber all of the time. I would pay out about 300 treats per day - directly into my dog's mouths (6 of them at present.) Basically, I would go INSANE if I washed my hands every time I treated a dog. Well I do wash them after a long session or if I'm using really yucky treats, but not just for a tiny bit of slobber. (you should see the slobber marks on my jeans from wiping my hands!) Also, when I'm out in public often a washroom is far away. I'm sure that I have licked my fingers, eaten, wiped my eyes, handled food etc etc with dog slobber on my hands hundreds of times this week alone. My dogs all eat raw food, especially raw chicken bones. I've never been sick. I don't really think that the US led "hype" about dogs passing salmonella and e-coli onto people has any factual basis at all.

This is not true. Think about it. How did all those people survive before vitamin supplements were invented? If you eat a well balanced diet then you don't need vitamins. Note: on the back of every packet of vitamin supplements it reads: "Note: Vitamins can ONLY be of assistance IF the DIETARY vitamin intake is inadequate." In other words, supplements are designed to be instead of dietary vitamins, not as well as. The vitamins not produced by the body (of either human or dog) are designed to be eaten by them in the diet, not in tablet form! How do you think all those people who dont' take supplements survive? No, they don't. They only need to consume them if their diet is NOT well balanced. We get them from the diet. Have a bit of vegemite for your b vitamins. And I agree with steve, you can use human vitamins - if they are a single formulation. However multivitamins with different amounts of different substances I think would be best specifically for a dog. I feed a raw food diet and I only use the following "supplements" -Vegemite because I know my dogs don't get enough vit. B -Honey - for lots of trace minerals -Apple Cider Vinegar - to help get rid of my dog's yeast infection -Oils - for essential fatty acids. I am also using "megaderm" at the moment on one of my dogs who has dry skin. I would give other supplements like vitamin C etc if the dog had a health problem, was very old or recovering from severe stress or previous bad diet. I also agree with Steve that variety is much better than the same menu. While a recipe guideline is a good idea for starting off. To answer your specific question about the Volhard's diet - there's a few things I don't like. She asks for a multimineral supplement for pups which will almost always include calcium. She then adds plain meat with no bone. While these two may balance each other out for calcium/phosphorous adding ANY artificial calcium to pups is really playing with fire!. I would absolutely not ever supplement calcium unless the vet prescribed a specific shortage. Secondly, she uses plain meat without bone as the basis for the diet. Once again, dangerous - this is likely to be too high in phosphorous. Raw meat on the bone is much safer than de-boned meat - for getting the balance right. Thirdly - grain everyday is far too much. Some raw feeders do without grain altogether and I have no problem with it. I add just a 1/2 cup of oats to my barf mix which helps bind it together. This mix lasts a week for a dog dog 1/2 cup of oats a week is hardly anything. I certainly wouldn't be feeding the amounts she recommends every day though. I think the plan is far too complicated in general. I would be going with my pup's BARF diet. If you want a copy email me and I'll send it to you as an attachment - it's great.

yes, immune mediated responses are built by exposure to pathogens but surely you acknowledge that a good diet and appropriate exercise are going to strengthen the dogs' immune system in general? I think the idea is that if the dog has a strong system it will be better able to make antibodies quickly if it is exposed to the disease and to fight that disease accordingly. If you think that diet and exercise play no part in helping to strengthen the immune system that's like saying that someone with immune suppression should just eat macca's and coke all day and sit in front of the tv - because a healthier lifestyle wouldn't help. Of course it does!! The healthier the dog (or person) is in general will help determine how well they resist infection. Diet and exercise are very important for general health, so therefore there is a direct link.

Well I personally have been vaccinated for Whooping Cough and Measles and I have had serious cases of both diseases. Also, I had identical symptoms to German Measles, 3 days after I had the vaccine for it. So basically, I think my body reacts badly to vaccines!! My old border collie also got Kennel cough despite being vaccinated for it only one month earlier. We give all pups the c3 and the adults the c5. I agree with showdog though, sometimes those that have had more vaccines get more illnesses! I would choose to use c4 if I could but ours comes in c3 all in one and parainfluenza and bordatella are both together. So it's all or none.

yeah, I was going to say get the anal glands checked! They can smell very offensive if the dog is discharging them due to impaction, infection or fear. And it's just a very doggie strong smell. Have your vet examine them perhaps?

Sorry pawsonpaths, I disagree. I think you can do a lot more harm by walking a young pup than by restricting its exercise. I think the amount of walking showdogs described is great. Less would be fine if you were able to do lead training and walking around the yard a little bit.

Hi Stitch, I think from memory it's not specifically the pH of the urine, rather the nitrogen content. It's very normal for dogs (and any animals) to excrete lots of nitrogen in the urine.

my dogs get no dried and the males wee doesn't kill of the grass but the girl's does - only if she goes on the same spot a few times in a row though.

for chester's touch, use such a big card that he can't bite around it - like a book. I"d just allow the bite, knowing that he won't be able to bite the door once he's doing that. It does sound like you went a bit fast. Big bum, which dog is the faster learner - the toller or the flattie? ( I know which one I'd be guessing!)

Well my dogs are all expert at these as they are assistance dog tasks. However I would add a few pointers. Firstly, a laminated business card is a great target. IF you teach touch on that, then you can just put it on the door and ask them to touch and click and treat. I would avoid doing what you suggested above to click for harder and harder pushes. I find a lot of dogs then get confused about the goal. What I do is to click when the door actually shuts, not when the dog pushes, so that the dog realises the goal. This way, after a few touches on a shut door, I open it the smallest bit and as the dog touches I push the door closed myself. I then click as the door clicks shut. After a few repetitions the dog realises that it's the shutting of the door that makes the click happen. then you can usually immediately progress to completely open doors and the dog will work out on his own how hard to push. Also, because the dog knows that the goal is to shut, and not to just push, they rarely get the direction wrong. Also, a lot of dogs will refuse to do it with the nose, so some will need to use the paw. I find that unless the door is very old they don't usually scratch it. Keep this in mind if your dog seems very aversive to touching with his nose. Many will be quite happy with the paw. Great trick big bum

bb, what would be wrong with a silent whistle for this? I personally would prefer not to attract as much human attention as a whistle might attract!! With a silent dog whistle you can still hear when you are making the silent noise because you can hear the air rushing through it. Great topic idea though. I can contribute plenty of tricks if you want. How about "open the fridge, get me a drink and then shut the door after yourself!!!"