dee lee

Damn you!!! Im SOOOO jealous! Good work

Hi MarkS, sorry to nag... Tried again today and made extra sure not to pull, used longer leash with limited success. Not expecting her to "get it" overnight but how long should it take? She seemed to be responding then after about 15 minutes going back and forth began to pull away harder for greener pastures and i had to give more frequent "pops" so i headed off home thinking she was getting bored. Should I be limiting the time like i would if i was training for anything else? Looking forward to seeing your videos.

MarkS- Ive taken onboard your advice and gave it a whirl at the park this morning. Man is she stubborn, she just does not "get" it yet, still pulled after 30 mins of not getting to where she wanted to! Tedious, but i can see that it WILL work if i keep it up-Thanks a million!!! BTW she is generally quite submissive to me at home and does everything i ask of her. Hopefully I can post with glowing reports soon! AND on a more general note, i must say that she is maturing into a beautiful dog for our family. We had a bunch of kids here for our 5 yr old's bday party on saturday and she was SOOOO well behaved. I was immensely proud of her- no jumping, chasing or licking!! She just cruised around happily soaking it all in and doing the occasional trick. And did the same when my sister came around, AND when she accidentally got out of the house in the midst of ferrying children from cars in the rain she went straight back inside when i asked her to!!! Next step is the walking and then the "other problem"... But you'll hear less whining from me about her from now on. Promise

Oh snoozie- i couldve written your post word for word!!! Crazy bloody dogs... Cant walk politely but hey can do tricks, i know what i'd rather. I must say though that since i started this I have managed to stay a lot calmer whilst walking and have tried to be more consistent- its been easier with all your support and i mightve just had a good day today but she seems a little improved, so thanks guys! :D (and ok ok i'll get in touch with K9 as soon as im back at work in 2 weeks!)

:p Good work Bruno!!!! Yay to e-collar!! :p bugger on the price.

:p Oh merriment you make me laugh! I know i am the ultimate procrastinator!!! Gettin on it!! I cant really ignore the fact I NEED HELP (I wonder if steve does people therapy too?)

Its SOOOO hard to get the humans trained. But if you are vigilant you can slowly eliminate the problem, the ol "ah ah" or a squirt with one of those pop-up water bottles will get the message through! eventually... Then you can start on the dog! :wink:

BP did i get this right? "Costs $50 plus the ecollar which costs a little more than $50." Wow, i was getting excited about everyone's success with the e-collar then i did research into prices and was shocked into submission (pun intended :p) by the $400 min price tag! I did check out steve's website which was cheaper but still more exxy than you mentioned. How'd you get it so cheap? Or did you skip a zero? As always im inspired by ecollar success stories- im hoping that maybe they aren't out of my price range.

I agree with Dogdude- I made that mistake and listened to an idiot who said "they are just playing" -now im paying for it. I dearly wish i could let Evie offleash- she too loves it so much- but now i cant for fear of her attacking a dog. If Dolly is showing ANY signs of aggression prevention is better than cure!

Great that she's improving!! And she is, dont get discouraged by her slip ups. My dog is nearing one and she has gotten much better in the last month- OH even commented that he was able to leave his thongs out overnight and still wear them in the morning now!!! (Her fave toy- 4 pairs in 6 months!). She still has her moments though- ive just learnt to predict them. I find the eternal vigilance is becoming second nature and hopefully BOTH the dog and the people in our house will learn to coexist happily in the long run. AND its finally beginning to seem that a lot of my probs will lessen with maturity and hard work. Puppies- AARGH, who'd ave em? Oh, i forgot to say: Be careful with the guarding, we started to have dog aggression issues with that and were advised that WE should be the protectors of the dog, not the other way round. Keep up the good work, Dee

Ah, it always comes back to Steve... Distance is a problem but it seems I should work that out, I can only handle so many recommendations!! I did make a tentative appt last year with him for next week but could not commit- bugger!! Now that the silly season is almost over I can start to plan. Had a bit of a revelation yesterday though- I may not be the alpha dog! My OH, whose maximum interaction with her is jogging once a week and who doesnt like dogs (she is no great exception!), seems to be!!! He told her off for barking at a dog walking past yesterday and she stopped immediately! Then sulked under the table til i made him call her and pat her! Far-out!! So not fair...

Lablover, I[ appreciate your posts, Thankyou for taking the time to reply to my cries for help! ;) Frankly I dont find your advice to be too harsh, horses for courses and if it works im sure that fly swatter is out of action pretty quick. Forums do seem to encourage a less than friendly tone sometimes i must say. Lets keep it noice guys!! Pax, I've been looking for a long lead actually (someone even mentioned getting one from a horse supplier) - planning on internet ordering one. My big problem is finding something that my dog wants. Food is NOT it when we are out. But if i get the gist of what you are saying I should find her motivation and reward her with something like a run free instead of food. Im SUCH a novice... Ive avoided this because i'm a bit inexperienced at this kind of training - food has been IT before. I'll see what i can come up with. Jaybeece, Funnily enough i did do the ol TOT on the street this morning- we stopped and did not move on until she looked at me. Not an amazing result but im expecting it will improve, she is great at it at home. Havent even thought of clicker training, will do some research into it- As i said above, im a bit of a basics gal, it takes a bit to get me beyond that Thanks guys, you have been great support. ETA: man you guys are fast, there have been 4 posts while i've been typing!!!

Ouch Lablover, you probably shoudve listened to your own advice!!! :wink: I heard a similar story from a country guy i know with a kelpie who used the end of his leash and said that it made the dog feel that it was the LEAD punishing it not him. Interesting idea but not for me i'm afraid- reminds me too much of getting smacked by the wooden spoon as a kid!! ;) Daily update- ok day today, kept it short and followed with a training session in a medium distraction area. Judging by her minimal interest in me at that sesion i think that may be where my problem lies. Any suggestions on how i can get her to focus? this was in a tiny park where she knows cats are so food treats just were of no value to her. She managed a couple half hearted sit, drop, stays (on leash so she couldnt ignore me + bolt off for a sniff) but there was lots of whining and if the leash wasnt on i wouldve had no chance. Just keep it up until she gets the idea? I feel like im back at the beginning- its been so frustrating knowing that in the last few months since i havent been able to let her off leash at the park her recall has all but vanished!!! Along with her outside training... Bugger, but onward and upward eh?!!

Thanks for the pep talk Jaybeece! Its good to hear a success story that started like mine. This has been a very tough learning process (having had an easy dog previously) and i've probably been beating myself up too much over it. I can see improvements- i've got to learn to accept them with grace no matter how small they are and not give up.

Bella's person- good tip, keeping walks short til she improves may help her to appreciate them and be less distracted. In addition to this I have been thinking, as Petmezz suggested, that i need to expand my training area in the street outside the house, maybe that will help with many probs. I try hard to stay positive but i just get tired... must say though my dog is not soft at all and does not seem even slightly interested in doing a good job!! Positive praise is just ignored outside the house. Even at home during training she just seems to get more and more excited rather than seeming to want to please. Jaybeece- Yes i have found it hard to enjoy my dog (did my myriad of whingeing posts give me away? She has just spent a week at a boarding kennel and after this breather i have found it all a bit easier to step back as you say and appreciate her. She is a real sweetie and I have realised she is in fact quite well behaved- she just has a couple of BIG issues that make it tricky to leave the house with her. OH has not helped with the tension... Next week i'm calling a trainer i was recommended and we'll see what it is i am doing wrong- cant wait to get on the road to the perfect dog!! :wink: Just joking, I will be happy to settle for her to walk easy on lead and be less obsessed (and "defensive") around other dogs. As for using harnesses etc, I think i will continue as i am- i have been trying to ease off the check chain a bit and she behaves much the same on her flat collar now. By which i mean she still forges ahead then stops when i stop, the check i use mostly when i have my kids with me and i need to be assured of complete control. My wish is that she wouldnt forge ahead at all regardless of the tool.

I once asked for some advice on here about other anti-pulling tools and got so many responses about needing trainer to show you how to use them that i decided to stick with what i knew and i'd used a check chain many years ago. Also from what i understand about these halter type tools (correct me if i'm wrong) there can be neck danger from pulling on them when the dog's head is turning- she is a real head snapper, she will turn and pull the other way so quickly if she sees a dog or cat. I really just cant see what i'm doing wrong.

Thanks guys, just logged on again. Tony- firstly I was told by a trainer i used a couple of times to use treats to encourage her to want to walk by my side, much like a heel. This works fine during training sessions but she is not interested in food under distraction so I have given up on this for general walks. For months now Ive been trying what many people on here have advised (and the trainer had touched on this too) which is to stop (engaging the check chain briefly) everytime she pulls ahead, wait for her to stop and come back to me, then move on- continuing this process constantly, with the occasional sit command to refocus her on me. I also add a "back" command occasionally before she hits her stride to remind her before the check engages. Pax- I just mean I want her to be aware that i am on the other end of the leash and not pull. I've read on here that that is the ideal case and thats what i'm after- I dont need her to be looking at me constantly. Petmezz- She does TOT easily in the backyard, in fact i was suprised (and proud) the other day when i put food down for her and went to walk away and she just sat there looking at me (i hadnt done it for a while). But I must say i havent done it outside our house- mostly because she is not food driven under distraction and there are CATS everywhere in our street!! Im a bit stumped as to how to do it due to that. Dogdude- Yep, looking forward to some professional help :D but in the meantime... Actually today she was a little better than usual, but i put it down to the heat . Essentially she is just SOOO dog and cat focused that i have no control over her when either one appears- hence the check chain, otherwise i would be pulled over. Also my husband or i take her for a jog once or twice a week- he wonders if this may be why, could she be expecting me to start running? I'm of the opinion she should be following my cue. She gets ALL her exercise on leash so everyday is a pain at present. Bloody hell WHEN will she get it into her head????!!!! :rolleyes:

I am going bonkers with my dog's pulling on the lead whilst walking!!!! She is nearly one now and its been months of me walking her with a check chain, stopping when she pulls, directing her to get "back", training her to heel, you name it i've done it and she STILL pulls!!! Im not worried about leadership issues- i've use NILIF, TOT, she will do pretty much anything i say at home, she behaves well if we stop for a coffee on our walk (she's a very cosmopolitan dog ), but she just will not pay consistent attention to me when we are walking- the slightest thing distracts her and she pulls pulls pulls. We dont go to obedience (not by choice but by circumstance), i have previously used a trainer and i am going to be using a behaviourist/new trainer in the next month or so but at the moment all i want is to walk her stress free! Help!! Dee

Oh, and my dog will only "play" like you describe with dogs who are submissive to her, or rather those that dont dominate her- (mostly dogs her age or a bit younger)- it sounds like your dog is the same. Can anyone elaborate why? Is it just because they are easy target and the bullying is enjoyable or could it have to do with some kind of fear aggression?

This thread is REALLY interesting. Miss maddy you have described my dog's behaviour to a T. Drives you nuts doesnt it when the only advice you get from a trainer is to get better treats?! I've come to the conclusion some dogs are harder to get to focus and obviously we are both compounding the prob somehow. I gave up on the park a couple of months ago after my (nearly 12months old) dog started bullying other dogs. Funnily enough i had an identical situation with a boxer as you have with the doberman- the bullying mentor becomes the bullied. I used to LOVE taking my dog to offlead parks but i've changed my mind now after the influence it has had on my dog's behaviour and wish i had never taken her.

It looks like so much fun!! I've been thinking about trying to redirect my dog's naughtiness and think that, since she is probably part kelpie, agility might be the answer. I note that you are all in sydney- is there a club close to the inner city? Thanks, Dee

Thanks guys, think i'll wait till i've gotten some training- i'd just not heard much about E-collars before and wondered if they were an easily used tool. Steve, one way or another I will be in touch in the new year.

Crusader, Did you get the E-collar before you saw K9? Is it it easy to use? Do you think it would it be worthwhile getting one to practice with until I manage to organise an appointment? It would make life much easier in the interim if that was the case. It would be nice to go back to the park sometime soon... "we" have some sociability issues not disimilar to yours but compounded by some unacceptable "tug-of-war" style rough-housing.

Stop it, I'm jealous!!! and still waiting for xmas to come and go!! Seriously- i love hearing these stories, gives me hope.

YAY KONGS!!! Wish i was the guy who invented them, can you imagine what he is worth now?! deservedly so too. Do you freeze them? Evie's last 2 minutes unless they are frozen! Anytime i leave the dog alone - even if i'm home but busy- i make sure i chuck her something to eat/do. She never gets fed in a bowl - its all given to her in Kongs, bones, plastic bottles filled with kibble or even a quick (frozen)chicken wing. Still get some damage but not as much as we used to, and there is no separation anxiety either, she views us going out as food time. As for training- This week my dog has become a trick training junkie!!! I took her for a jog this morning (ouch..) but a couple of hours later she started bouncing around me! Now im not fast jogger but i was suprised she wanted a walk- then i realised she was trying to get me to train her!! Wow! maybe there is something in this training caper?! its certainly got HER mind working. Hope this week has been a better week for you chloebear, you sound cheerier. Dee