Vickie

so are you saying he will run with Kaos? So he sometimes has more drive than other times?

Yes I do. I will adjust my statement to say "if I wanted to breed successful racing greyhounds" actually, no I won't. I know very little about greyhounds. It was probably a bad example to choose.

thanks for that. Still think it's not for me. If you are breeding for function, I think it's a little more complicated. If for instance I wanted to breed greyhounds, I think it would take a bit more than the above. I would have to learn all about racing and training and actually have to dedicate a significant amount of time actually racing dogs before I produced my own. Same with a BC (for me). It would require a significant lifestyle change for me (moving, giving up agility, learning a he'll of a lot more about sheep, training a number of different dogs over a period of years, etc) to be as competant working dogs as I feel I'd need to be to earn the right to breed them. As I said before, luckily for me, there are other people already doing this & doing it well.

The problem with people giving up on a dog with low drive is that it is often not the dog that is the problem. The same basic principles are applied for training regardless of drive. A person unable to train a low drive dog is also unlikely to succeed with a higher drive dog. Different problems maybe, but problems nonetheless.

What a great bunch of dogs we all have!

Ooo forgot this one: when your dog goes over the last jump, then over 2 ring ropes & is 3 obstacles into the course in the next ring before that person realizes she is running the wrong dog and when your dog mistakes the ball of rope at the end of the distance challenge for her reward & picks it up & brings it to you

So are they high-drive dogs, or have they had the best brought out in them? probably both, some were paddlng their feet & screaming to have a go, others were going about as fast as I think they could. plenty of very high drive dogs have the ability to switch off & relax when they need to

When your dog is shaking so violently at the start line that people think she is fitting

You know your dog is keen when: you walk out the back door with a motivator & your dog runs away from you at top speed to line up in front of the closest obstacle your thighs are permanently covered in multiple bruises from dogs launching for the toy your dogs go out of their way in zoomies to take obstacles on the way round your dog places a slimey tennis ball in the pram of a baby for it to throw Anyone else? give me your things that make you smile

I think that's changing Aiden, at least in agility. When was the last time you went to a trial? I joined a club last night, first time I have trained at a club for about 4 years. I was absolutely astounded, in the 2 classes we participated in, I did not see one dog who did not have great speed & drive to do the courses. It was wonderful to see & vastly different to what I saw the last time I attended a club To some degree Vickie, that is also influenced by dog/breed selection. The types of dogs doing agility has also changed over time. not relevant to what I saw last night PF, there was a really diverse group of breeds, a number of scruffy little dogs, terrier mixes,a couple of labs and yes a few typical agility breeds, running at almost maximum capacity

I think that's changing Aiden, at least in agility. When was the last time you went to a trial? I joined a club last night, first time I have trained at a club for about 4 years. I was absolutely astounded, in the 2 classes we participated in, I did not see one dog who did not have great speed & drive to do the courses. It was wonderful to see & vastly different to what I saw the last time I attended a club

I don't really think I have ever seen too many truly low drive dogs training for competition. I have seen heaps with who seem low drive, but I would say it is suppressed drive, either created by fears, distractions or poor training. I have also seen some incredible progress made by people tapping into drive that they had always assumed didn't exist. Many people will tell you their dog is low drive during class & then throw a tennis ball after class to that same dog who has turned into a crazed lunatic. If your dog won't play enthusiastically with you but loves playing energetically with other dogs, it is not low drive. And yes Jules, I agree, the ability to training basic (or even complex) behaviours is not the same as training for competition eta, I did see a maremma once trying to learn agility who appeared to have very low drive, but the owner was right up there with one of the worst trainers I've ever seen, so can't guarantee it was the dog

I'm yet to see anyone who's missed the assumed point of the article; only people who think the point isn't valid or think it hasn't been made by that article. still standing by your statement ML?

that's interesting, I have heard many people say just the opposite of bc's & kelpies. Many say that the more episodes they have, the more often they are likely to happen.

Yes, I think a low drive dog is capable of earning titles in dogsports, providing they have a dedicated and or good handler. As to whether they can win...depends on the competition. A low drive dog can beat a well trained high drive dog, however it would be unlikely to beat a bunch of them. I think people often mistake different types of drive for low drive.

Thanks for posting. I have observed exactly what the page describes & the videos show a number of times now in both BC's & kelpies. I still can't help thinking that there is a link between EIC & work ethic. It would be very interesting to conduct the same study on a few other breeds.

Maybe so, many would have tackled the same topic differently, but one thing's for sure, if I have understood it correctly, the points made in this article/thread are well worth considering. When I started reading this thread, I dismissed it as extremist. The more I read & think about it, the more valid I see the warnings to be. I'm surprised at how many people in this thread seem to have missed the whole point of it. One day it might be too late, I hope not.

Great shot! And a very cute pup

In my book it does, even if you go with what your mentor is telling you. It does take two to tango after all fair enough

I am assuming the above statements are limited to/relate to breeders who exhibit. I certainly don't see them as true for those breeding for the performance & pet market

Thanks that makes perfect sense whiskedaway

personally if you allow your dog to be used then I consider you a breeder and the onus is on you to present your dog in the best possible way and any health testing that should be done for your breed, would have been done. That you will only allow your dog to be used over suitable bitches that meet your standard. That you are happy your dog can contribute to the breed in a positive way. I understand what you are saying, but...I have already said that I don't have the knowledge to breed to the standard I want in a dog, choose a suitable stud/bitch or to be sure that offspring would be a positive contribution to the breed. If I were ever to do this (LOL, not likely for a long time since every dog I currently own is sterilised), it would be on the advice & faith in someone who did have this knowledge...not sure if that would make me a breeder or not...

I just added that option. This is a statement that particularly interests me. To be honest I'm not sure I really understand it, other than, I guess, in a rare breed. Can you elaborate?

I have always said I would never breed dogs. At this point I can't see that ever changing (although there are circumstances where I would consider a breeder using one of my dogs in the future). I am curious about what makes some people want to breed & others not. I don't breed because people with a heap more knowledge than I have are producing exactly what I want and maintaining the standard that I strive to have in my breed. Thoughts? Why don't you want to breed? why do you want to breed?

Her new book is awesome! One of the best handling books I've seen eta, I keep adding points . I think I've been to too many seminars