Vickie

Still leading at the end of today they are running a final tomorrow

Trims first & last runs and Shine's

You can download a form from the dogsnsw site & send together with payment and desexing cert. She needs to be registered as an associate at least to compete in any ANKC trials eta, you need to be a member of dogsnsw too

yes, they were warmed up first. Not sure what I was expecting I did expect Trim to get faster with repetition as that's just the sort of dog she is. Totally the opposite to a dog who slows down with drilling...she gets faster. Shine seems a bit flat overall today so not sure what her numbers mean. here's an interesting point. I just looked at Trim's part from where she first touched the AF till the SS banged. Her 2nd run was 1.1 seconds faster over this part so the contacts are definitely where she made the time up. One second is significant enough over only 8 obstacles, but enormously significant over only 3 obstacles!

I did not time well looking at the VCR final times were Trim 1st - 10.5 seconds last - 9.7 seconds Shine 1st - 11.2 seconds last - 11.2 seconds am trying to load video but keeps crashing on YouTube

I need to get it up on my computer to time it accurately, but timing it on the video, it looks like Trim was a whole second faster on her last run & Shine stayed about the same as she did on the first run

Just ran each 3 times in a row with food rewards & have already learnt something huge! I AM SO UNFIT!!!! Both are slower Getting onto position on their contacts with food, maybe bc I have never trained contacts with food? Or because I am decellerating to deliver it

I'll try to remember that! Should be extra interesting since they BOTH clocked exactly 11.2 seconds on their first run, will make it easy to compare results & progress. The video is pretty hard to see as I had to move it back to fit it all in.

I don't see why not...if you really want to the middle might be a bit tedious, but I'll try to post the first & last ones.

I've just set up a big loop & got the video ready. Jump, AF, jump, seesaw, tunnel, jump, jump Plan is to run it with each dog once then run it another 6 times with each dog, rewarding heavily with food on AF & SS then run it again & compare the times on the first runs to the times on the last run. Tomorrow, I will run it in the opposite direction, but reward with tug instead of food & again compare the times. Lol, what a boring life I must lead, but I love doing stuff like this. Sometimes it tells me nothing...sometimes it tells me lots! Often being able to measure something makes a difference in your perception of it. Hopefully this will be a "lots" experience.

A big Congrats to Dasha & Abby who are currently sheepdog trialling at Molong. Last I heard Abby was winning encourage on a score of 85. She also came very close in Novice, but DQd just as Dasha was closing the gate of the pen. she had a very good run with Teisha her new young dog as well and managed to work her successfully through an issue she has had I think this is a pretty big deal for someone out there competing with a bunch of farmers, many of whom have been training dogs since Dasha was a baby.

Helen is fantastic!

I wouldn't use the clicker for 2o2o other than in the VERY early stages to teach position (and even then I don't).

great news! Well done

so true LL when asked which pups they are keeping, sheepdog people often respond "whichever ones are left"

Best of luck Luke, I haven't read the book but it sounds interesting. Will you still train him in agility while you're working through the program? Not sure how to say this, so I'll just say it ... Are you working on a program for yourself as well? You may change Barkly but it is likely that unless you personally make some changes with regards to expectations, attitude etc that his issues may recur.

I would probably focus more on your placement of reward. If you get one step, trying throwing the reward between their front legs. Since they will have to step back to get it, it gives you another opportunity to mark & reward & so on. As you progress, try throwing reward deeper between their front legs. I guess the 2nd step could technically be luring but not really

I do find this a particularly odd statement for you to make As a group, I would say we have been given more specifics and examples of your 2 dogs' behaviours than any other dogs on this forum. You regularly give "the world according to Corvus" opinions on behaviour & learning backed up by examples of Kivi & Erik (oh & the dog you grew up with, whose name I should know, but it escapes me....penny?) It seems a pretty narrow viewpoint , and inconsistent with what you have written above, given how little you have actually done with them, and with the fact that according to you, each of them have issues which make them not quite your average dog.

For those with lots of negativity towards Caesar, do you see any positives? As someone who has watched many episodes, I try different things from time to time that I have seen him do. Some of them I have never done & others I realise I already do when I consciously try them. Example I can easily walk 4/5 of my dogs together with no pulling or bustling. It wasn't until I watched the show that I realized I pretty much always walk multiple dogs the way he does. I have a friend that I walk with sometimes. Her dogs pull like crazy & react to their surroundings a lot. If I give her my dogs & I take hers, mine are a little worse & hers are a little better. If I take either of hers & walk it with mine, it is perfect within a couple of minutes. Same if we are at the beach. Her dogs are reactive by themselves & she keeps them onlead. When we are together, hers are not reactive & seem happy to follow the lead of my dogs. There are things he does that I would never do, but much of it makes sense, especially since I am rarely in contact with dogs who are not in the normal range.

and another of my favourites me: there is a foundation exercise that we can do to help this problem handler: oh we've done all the foundation stuff me: well you may not have done this one,let me show you handler: oh yes, we've done heaps of that me: no offence but it seems you haven't done it right or you wouldn't have this issue handler: ok I'll practice it some more me: um, let's have a look at what you should practice...if you have dine heaps of it & it hasn't worked, it is unlikely to work now I see the above scenario a lot with people training from books or DVDs. They follow the steps, but often don't seem to know how to apply/use it in a training setting

Patricia McConnell loves herding and I am pretty sure she attacks it with the same scientific scrutiny she attacks every interaction she has with animals. ;) I have no idea why you are shrugging...any more than why you feel the need to bring up Patricia McConnell at my suggestion that THE AVERAGE AUSSIE STOCKPERSON (something she is CLEARLY NOT) would be reluctant to discuss detailed theory. It is actions like this that, if performed continually, would irritate most instructors. It is simply not relevant. I have attended a lot of seminars and classes. There are always the same people that ask the same types of questions. I feel most of them are subconsciously (or not) trying to earn attention, form some alliance with the trainer, big note themselves, belittle others etc. Most of the questions are irrelevant to the group & often irrelevant even to that person. Even if they save these questions till later, these people often end up learning the least at the seminar. They are too busy planning their statements/questions/interruptions to be really taking in the information. Added to that, they negatively impact others as well, since the trainer is often interrupted half way through giving valuable information. They are also the people that often perform poorly with their dogs, since they have placed unreasonable pressure & expectations on their abilities. Trying desperately to impress is a sure fire way to make you dog wonder why you're acting weird. I enjoy playing devils advocate during online discussions, but would never consider it in a class or private training situation. What works for me is to be quiet, listen & try really hard. Not only does it get results, it often earns the respect of the trainer that the constant questioners seem to so desperately seek. Sometimes instructors have the answers you seek, sometimes they don't. I learnt a long time ago that the information is there if you need to access it & research further. Maybe some or none of the above applies to you Corvus, but I would suggest that a little humility in a training situation never goes astray.

:rolleyes: I think this suits & sums up most of us perfectly. I find learning easier by doing. Not to say I don't think about the how's & why's, I do. But i only feel the need to discuss them extensively when I encounter issues/barriers/breakthroughs.

i was getting at the fact that most people teaching stockwork are unlikely to be discussing much learning theory. I find it easiest to listen & try to do what they say, although I do ask the occasional question. Of course there is theory involved, as with everything...but good luck to anyone who thinks it will be discussed in any detail by the average Aussie stockperson :rolleyes:

I can't imagine why they would turn out anything like that pup, they are totally unrelated & very different types of dogs. I would not be interested in sheepdogs that did not have the ability to chill out. Agreed (relating to me not you) I know what you mean, but I have found that there comes a time where I do need to be more right than the dog. Letting a dog do what it does well & naturally can only take you so far. Although I am inexperienced, I feel it is my job to train my dog to do what I ask, while at the same time keeping everything in control enough not to ask for something totally unreasonable. not sure if that makes sense...

I hope you never get a stockdog & start to train it Corvus. You will get VERY frustrated!