Vickie

Yep, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

Shine thinks so too!

sorry Her name is Fly. I'm sure Trim's face tells you just how evil she is!

damn I wish I had read this before I got my new pup . Maybe it's true My 2 pretty colored dogs have been much easier to live with than my 5 common colored dogs. No wonder people charge and pay more for pretty colours!!! And all this time I have thought these people were idiots. Now I know the real reason!

The other big thing to consider here if we are talking about dogs you can live with first is...how accurate a picture can you get of this by seeing dogs at training or trials? My girls can look a little wild at trials, quivering, pulling on lead to get into the ring, making horrible whining noises etc. Peppi looks positively dopey and is often untethered & just trots around beside Chloe. People are always surprised when they come to my house that they are the other way around at home. Trim & Shine will certainly be up for a ball game with anyone who comes to visit, but they are excellent pets, quiet, easy to contain & generally just happy to lay around. I knew this as I got to know their lines well & observed them in a home environment before I decided they were right for me. Had I only seen them at trials, I probably would have thought they were too full on. Not sure about Fly yet, she's pretty full on, but most puppies are. She has learnt to settle well in a crate though. Pep is a lot more demanding. She is noisier, doesn't like to be left alone & much more demanding of our time. she also seems to spend a lot more time tearing around the yard like a maniac. I would hate anyone seeing her at a trial to get one thinking she was a quiet lapdog. She's not.

Our Peppi is a bit like this. My suggestion would be to get her turning tight on the flat first before you ask for it on the dw. A good way to do this is to teach her to run around a pole, or a tree. Increase the distance till she is running fast towards it, turns tight & accelerates out of the turn. Once her line is basically straight, you know you have success. Another thing about entries to dog walks, seesaws & even weaves is that people often try to make the entries easier but actually make them harder. By running right up to an angled entry, we are often actually asking the dog to move laterally across the front of it. Many dogs struggle with the turn b/c our body language is actually asking them to go straight ahead. I try to look for commitment from the dog to the obstacle, one I see it, I make my turn & I'm off. Often they do a much better job of the entry without our "help". Not sure if I have explained this well... I know what I mean lol. What an awesome team!

Weaves in the backyard are often a different exercise than weaves at training. Some reasons: Different spacing, different base, different flexibility based on poles/base etc Different number ie 6 at home, 12 at training Lots more distractions at training Handler approaches them differently at training, eg moves more/less confidently or stands closer/further away, verbalizes more/less at training etc There are often obstacles before & after weaves at training vs a stand alone exercise at home If you build enough value for weaving, all of the above should become irrelevant. If your performance is unreliable at home, deviation in any of the above is likely to create a dog who looks like it doesn't really understand the exercise. I probably wouldnt ask my dog to weave at training until I know it totally gets the exercise at home. This is one of the reasons I like to start with 3 poles. It allows me to do everything I need to build value & proof at home & I can easily take them to training and build value & proof there as well. Once 3 is perfect, I can move to 5, then straight to 12.

I know Skip quite well. She is a good trainer & handler who is doing well in agility in spite of some baggage that her dogs carry from a previous life. She hasn't given up on her current dogs or called them unsuitable. She is doing a great job training, with improvement every time I see them. She will do well with whatever she gets.

I think anyone who finds themselves in this situation, may need to face the fact that it is probably them who is the problem, not the dog/s. It would be unusual that a dog bred well to work, didn't, but highly unlikely that this would continue to occur. Same in agility/obed etc, anyone who has a series of dogs that they can't get the best out of (providing this is their aim) needs to look at their training techniques. but we are not talking about the average owner. We are talking about someone who wants to have a go at being competitive in agility. I have no problem choosing my dogs for their potential. That said, my measure of success is to get the best out of the dog I have. This is much more important than winning. I have always had BC's but have shifted the type/ lines I get b/c they are better suited, both physically & mentally. I retired my boys at 8 b/c I didn't feel their bodies were suited to the motivation I was training them with. Trim will be 8 in January & is in her peak physically & mentally. There are a number if examples in agility right now of people with non typical breeds who are getting close to the best out of the dog they have. it is amazing what research, dedication & hard work can achieve

Well done Vicki, Bo & of course Steve. I didn't know you before but can certainly testify to the wonderful bond you now have with Bo. It is beautiful to watch

My advice...RUN A MILE from that trainer! Where do you live? Maybe we can recommend a trainer who actually knows something about dogs

Me too...other than for a few specific children. As far as other people disciplining my dogs, I have no problem with most of my friends enforcing what they will allow from my dogs. I would not be happy about a stranger doing it though. And obviously I feel hitting any dog is neither acceptable nor effective. I have no problem disciplining friends dogs at my house. Same as I have no problem disciplining other kids at my house. My house, my rules. If you don't like it, don't come, lol.

possibly, but they are only likely to be wearing her out if you are asking for too much at a time & your reinforcement rate is not high enough. People often think their dog is worn out, only to find they have a heap of energy left to chase a ball or play with other dogs. Means your reward history is not strong enough. Try to be a bit more unpredictable with your rewards & break things down more. Do you crate her between runs? Putting her away when she's wanting more will help her come out fresh for each run.

Generally, Speed should come with confidence & experience, both yours & Quinns. I suspect your reward rate is much higher when you are working on individual things as opposed to small sequences and this will affect her motivation. What is your reward & how are you delivering it? How long are the sequences? I would shorten them so that they become an exercise you can mark & reward. Eg if the exercise is a curve...jump, jump, tunnel,jump, jump...just do the tunnel until she is driving into it fast. Get her excited "ready,ready", then as soon as she's in, "yes" and take off so she learns to power out to get to her reward. Then add a jump in front. When you are getting the same level of motivation as you got for just the tunnel, add 2 jumps,etc. IOW, Only extend what you are doing when you are getting what you want.

My advice would be to give her a break from training for a couple of months. Spend the time building fun motivation games in a low distraction environment (eg lounge room), then backyard, then paddock etc. I know how frustrating it is, one of my previous dogs was like this. I tried to build motivation with him using training. It didn't work. After spending a couple of months just playing games with him, he came back to training a totally different dog and stayed motivated till the day he died. The good thing about just playing motivation games is that your expectations are a lot lower than, say weaving/heeling etc. It tends to put the joy back into things for both of you.

Last one is my new favourite

They are awesome Shell !!!! I love them all, but the 3rd is my favourite

What a great story! Huge congratulations Tamika & Jessie!

It's all relative isn't it. If you have a dog with good solid nerves & structure & you are an experienced trainer who has worked at building a strong reward system with your dog, then yes, I guess it's easiER than trying to achieve this without some or all of those elements. For anyone who thinks it's easy for the average person & dog, go watch an agility trial & see what percentage of dogs actually move with that kind of drive & focus. And then reduce the number who do to factor in the environment, crowds, noises, fire etc. Again, I thought it was very impressive. Anyone know when it was filmed?

What magnificent looking & moving dogs! Very impressive

Fly & her Mum Abby. Can you tell they're related?

I would be taking Nehkbet up on her very generous offer. It's likely that the emotional response you may (understandably) have to this issue will make it harder, so getting an experienced 3rd party to help seems like a great idea I recently took in a dog for training who had a number of fear issues. It was amazing to see her transform from a totally shut down & fearful dog into a confident happy one who was eager to learn & train. I think coming into a pack of normal dogs was a big part of the progress we made. Her owner is an excellent trainer but found it hard to separate the history from the dog she had in front of her. It is much easier to be objective when it's not your dog.

X 3

I've found the working lines much easier to handle & live with, but then I've also grown a lot as a handler & trainer since having them. One thing is for sure, they have a much better off switch than my previous BCs.

Difference in temperament, training & exercise needs between the 4 breeds will depend on the lines you are looking at. They will vary widely between each breed for BCs kelpies & coolies. I'm not sure about the Aussies, all the ones I know are very similar, but since they are rarely bred for work as the other 3 are, that kind of makes sense. When you ask about working styles, I am assuming you mean stockwork? There are general differences here, but again, it is dependent on the lines. I think it's always best when looking for a dog for sports, to spend a lot of time watching trials. Usually a breed will stand out to you & often you admire a number of dogs only to find they are related or similarly bred. I've just got my 6th BC (other than childhood ones). 1 show/pet bred, 1 farm bred, 1 showbred, 3 working/trial bred. The last 3 I got b/c I loved everything about their parents/families. I often now see a pup or dog that catches my eye, only to find out they are related or similarly bred. This is the type that suits me & the one I'm likely to stick to. Jmo