Vickie

Agree. I often watch dogs training or competing now and cannot tell whether they are rewarded with toys or food.

Ah yes, but you see, this is not about being competitive at all. This is about maximizing fun for the DOG and consequently the handler. Why on earth you would want to proceed with something, after a bunch of experienced people have explained why it's a bad idea and that it will have negative consequences for your dog, is totally beyond me. This has nothing to do with being competitive.

Sounds like you have it all worked out. Please be aware though that this WILL have a negative impact on your teamwork. He may not shutdown, but he will trust you a little less each time you do this.

Be very careful here KTB. In something you can clearly measure like weaves, start lines or contacts, this can work so long as your criteria is clearly defined. With general handling this becomes much harder to get right. If my dogs miss a jump or take the wrong one, they are never wrong as far as I'm concerned. 99 times out of 100 it is a bad cue I gave or poor timing. To make them think they did the wrong thing when responding to a cue at speed is to make them hesitant and erode the trust they have in me & my handling.

Sincere condolences to you & Brett. Yes, some dogs are very special and there is no doubt to anyone that Webster was one of them. Look after yourselves. Your pain will be replaced by happy memories, but knowing that doesn't stop it hurting like hell for now.

So glad you updated & the news is better. I am sure you will both be in all our thoughts again today.

Hoping she has picked up this afternoon...

Thinking of you & Mindy today. I can only imagine what you are going through right now... Hope things turn around & she makes a quick recovery.

Actually it will/should affect you. Rings set for 600 will include larger spaces than what you will see on an all heights course. This needs to be trained too...not always as easy as you might think. The person I talked to said that the spacing for the bigger dogs remains unchanged? But if not, you are right, something that will need to be trained. It will be tricky at clubs with not many small or not many large dogs (sometimes I am the only 600). Yes the rule has remained unchanged ie 4-8 metres between obstacles for 4,5,600's. However, it's not regular to see any spacing bigger than 6 metres. We should now start to see more spacing between 6-8 metres for the larger dogs.

Actually it will/should affect you. Rings set for 600 will include larger spaces than what you will see on an all heights course. This needs to be trained too...not always as easy as you might think.

At our Festival of Agility for the last 2 years we have had a separate ring for each height. Courses have been set to challenge each height group. It seems to work well & the smaller dogs face challenges in spacing thst they wouldn't normally see, but larger dogs see all the time. As someone who runs a very large striding 500 dog who faces similar challenges to some of the 600's on tighter courses, I welcome the option of having courses appropriately spaced for different heights. It is not always what the judge is testing, but sometimes it is It is important for smaller dogs to train this, just as larger dogs currently do.

Woooohooo!!!! Sounds like a fantastic experience for a first trial . Huge Congrats to you Krustie!

Good Luck Krustie & Kuda

This is the one we are using http://www.k9pro.com.au/products/2%22-x-16%22-Synthetic-Bite-Tug-Two-Handle.html Shine LOVES to swing through the air on it . I like it b/c it's compact, easily goes in my back pocket and especially because it's not much fun on it's own and other dogs dont seem to find it interesting (unless they have one themselves). The French linen was great to start with, but not really durable enough now for the grip they have developed. Good for my puppy though

Never heard of him but here's his website http://www.allaboutthedog.com.au/

I have found that some dogs naturally have rear end awareness & others don't. Trim knew where all her legs were and how to use them by the age of 6 months without any help from me. Shine was slower to mature & needed help at 12 months Fly, at 14 weeks already has a very good sense of rear end awareness. I certainly don't think there's any harm in rear end awareness exercises, but also don't see a great need to specifically focus on them early either. Often if a dog lacks awareness at 12 months, they are probably not ready for any kind of serious training anyway. Waiting 6 months till they mature can achieve the same outcome anyway. Jmo

I think I misunderstood when you explained the don't wanta don't haveta thing the other day Kavik. Lol, I have a different thing going on If you don't wanta, you don't haveta because I have a bunch of other dogs here who wanta! Or the...oh you want the tennis ball more than the tug. Whoops I threw it over the fence, go stare at it all you want, I'm off to have fun with someone else.

I totally agree with what you are saying - BUT the handling cues should be that ingrained in the dog before it gets on equipment that it is a moot point. Not moot for me 90% of the training, & therefore rewarding, that I do right now relates to handling, ie the dog responding to my cues. I still reward obstacle performance occasionally, but I see (in an ideal world) obstacles as finite training exercises. Handling, including my dogs response to it, is something I will always strive to improve.

Ahhh, but remember, the obstacles are only half the equation. The ability to get your dog around the course is the other (and probably more important once your obstacles are trained) half. Obviously the dog has to have a reward history associated with correct obstacke performance, but Personally I want more value for my dog responding to my handling cues than any piece of equipment.

On the contrary Huski it's a very popular opinion and you are explaining it very clearly.

I didn't say you would want it. I just said maybe some people have to handle it anyway and do so successfully. In a stockdog you would want it. How else are you going to get them to do what you need them to do? There is so much emphasis put on reward value and so little on methods of controlling reward access and conditioning. I don't think we need to be afraid of our dogs coming to love something more than us. We just have to be sensible about how we manage their access to those things. Having a dog that loves to run agility courses more than they love, say, a game of tug is not necessarily a bad thing in itself. Failing to control their access to equipment so that it's not contingent on the desired behaviour is. In contrast, I find it highy unlikely that I'll ever be able to sufficiently control access to, say, wallabies. So dogs are on leash around wallabies. She says, hopefully. Either that or I get some e-collars. In a stock dog, there are no rewards other than the work. However you can still reward the dogs with various components of the work. In agility, having a dog that loves to run the course more than taking a reward such as tug or food that you offer IS a bad thing if you want to be successful. It is almost impossible to train these dogs to respond to the the finer points of handling & obstacle performance and it can also be downright dangerous.

Mine are both pretty tuned in to me. I have to watch Trim with weaves though...if I am not prepared, she will "misread ;) " my cues to go do them. Shine used to be an AF suck but she seems to be over it.

Congratulations Jess . It was a brilliant run on what looked like a very tricky course.

I doubt you'll get criticism...looks awesome! Well done

I know! I think I would have been embarrassed too, it was quite an uproar Agility people are so awesomely supportive