Steve

There is another thread here somwewhere explaining there has been a slight hold up due to an editing/publishing issue but its under control now If anyone isnt happy to wait we can refund just say the word but it shouldnt be too long now as we have someone working around the clock on it. Julie

You simply pay 60 and ignore the invoice.

I can't read the study so cannot answer your question. However as far as I know there are no breeders in Asutralia that are MRI screening all of their breeding dogs. I think the Uk is further ahead with more breeders screening, but it is still optional I believe. As long as Oz does their own study and scans several hundred dogs and gets totally different results which shows it is not a problem over here, that would be great! But until then, I think we can only go on the breed information that has already been obtained. Even if they are off by half and the affected rate is 35% it is still way too high. This is not my breed, but it is my registry and we are now all held to account. Clearly this will come under review soon in OZ and with out any clear plans to address this problem I fear for the future of this breed and the impact it will have on all breeds and breeders in the ANKC. There are some breeders in Australia who are testing all of their breeding dogs

One thing anyway by the time the rotten kids come out of plaster I will be fitter. Ive lost my labourers. Have a big job on for Pacers for the next two days so sewing is on hold again. Im coming Judi. Never fear but I broke the sewing needle and have to drive 60 ks to get some new ones too.

As so many have said on here, any that disagree with these ideas can only be guilty and have something to hide (I bet they are witches and do not believe in a world carbon economy too). I guess we will know if this plan works if we see a sudden drop off of breeders next year. If the numbers do not drop off then I am sure ANKC Vic will come up with more ideas to drive off their breeders who must have something to hide. Perhaps they could try requiring breeders to come in to the building each year to pay for membership? Then hang garlic and oleander around the door, which will repel and drive off all evil. What a terrible state of affairs in the ANKC Vic, good luck with it and do let us know when we can again, if ever, trust the ANKC breeders in Vic. Yep things are looking up! LOL Same old same old - If you're doing the right thing you dont have anything to worry about. Rather than debate the subject and try to educate us because we are so dull just attack us and accuse us of being dodgey and having something to hide. Time will tell.

I dont have anything to hide. I sat in a room where high on the agenda were a list of things which would impact greatly on registered breeders and Im concerned that this may be the start of that and that for me outweighs the potential benefit - unless Im given information which tells me that people who tell lies on their applications about who they are and where they live is a major problem which needs addressing. There is much going on behind the scenes but this is a done deal. Im over it.

The whole wide world doesn't know or care about a change in administrative procedures down at the CCCQ office. Members and other interested parties will get that message instead. People that may already suspect that some members are doing the wrong thing and hiding their identity to avoid the consequences of their actions. And they will get an even stronger message that the organisations are engaging in risk management by taking basic steps to verify who their members are. That is a good thing for everyone. O.K. so members and the public and interested parties are not the whole world. Time wil tell as to whether it is a good thing for everyone.

What info? The info they are already providing? Their name and address? Unless they are providing false information right now, verifying their identity will not alter the data held about them. It wouldn't allow data matching that couldn't happen anyway, and it wouldn't reduce the obligation the registering bodies have under the privacy act. If breeders do not trust the registering bodies to keep their information secure, how do buyers verify who they are dealing with should the deal be disputed? Why would breeders trust the registering bodies to keep their information secure when history shows us that they dont. Its not so long ago that Dogs NSW published all of a members details in their Canine Journals - including their addresses. We were told if we didnt want that info shared to set up a P.O. Box. In fact its why we first got a P.O Box Breeder addresses were publicised when rego details and export details were. Data matching is a lot easier when you can access someone's licence number as is already proven. I cant be bothered arguing this out - its a done deal anyway and time will tell if it makes any difference. Im sick to death of being assumed potentially guilty of numerous fraudulent and cruel activities because I choose to breed registered dogs. I think there is more on the agenda that we wont see for a little while. Just backs up what we already knew some Vic dogs members are croocks and whether Jo banks comes in as Jo blogs or if they say they live on a property when they live in town is the least of their problems.

Goodness, how very dramatic....asking people for the same information they provide to set up an account at the local video store is to much to ask Dog Showers? I agree. Anyone would think they had something terrible to hide. Steve a couple of days ago you were arguing that if a breeder is registered then it is a way that a puppy buyer can verify who they are dealing with. Kennel prefix can be matched with an individual responsible for the prefix. Now you are arguing that the registering bodies shouldn't be required to verify the identity of people obtaining prefixes? You can't have both. Where is the most basic consumer protection for puppy buyers? I can understand why you want life to be as easy as possible for good breeders, but buyers are going to be much better protected buying dogs from registered businesses than they are from hobbyists that do not properly identify themselves. Greytmate in order to be a member of Vicdogs you have to provide a name, an address and a contact number - within 2 seconds if someone said they were registered and in order to register puppies they have to own registered dogs - if they were not registered a quick phone call would tell them they were not with or without proof of identity. Making those who are joining prove who they are will not stop people who say they are saying they are when they are not. Those people who were used in the thread as an example you mention were not members and Id bet the bank on it they would never even think of being members. There is no comparison and the two are miles apart. All this does for me is send a loud and clear message to the whole wide world that they know that some of their members are doing the wrong thing and committing fraud. Not that they know some crooks pretend to be registered when they are not. The basic most consumer puppy buyer protection is with the fraud squad , consumer affairs and a list of other entities which track down crooks who rip people off with anything. Registered breeders should not be assumed to be crimminals and checks put in place to ensure the incidence of crooks getting in is limited. By the way we also check identities and where people live but not by making them hand over their rates notices or licences and keeping them on file.

So we assume that so many people who are breeding registered dogs are pretending to be someone they are not and having addresses which they dont really live at that its necessary for everyone who wants to be a member to prove who they are and where they live and have their licence numbers stored in a system which we have no way of knowing how secure that is or what that means? We also assume that puppy farmers use these tactics to hide from the CC how many puppies they breed. Why ? Last time I looked they can breed as many as they want . Or are we worried that people will hide where they live so they cant be inspected. - How often have CC gone to inspect someone and they dont live there? We havent been able to just use P.O. Box addresses for years anyway. Try telling people who are on an aged pension and who have a litter or two a year that this info will never be used as part of any data matching to put them under the gun for making an income. More animal rights baloney.

Yep I got yours . Having 8 kids often sees them working me over in tandem. Its the same two kids this time as it was a couple of years ago. One kid broke his arm at footy - hospital trip and he's at school - trips over the hose . Couldnt save himself with a broken arm so within 4 days of the first break he breaks his second arm. Couldnt even go to the toot , turn on a tap etc. Hospital trip. Then I have a bitch in whelp - looks like she may need a vet and I get a call from the school the second kid has had an accident.Come quick. I put the dog in the car , picked up the kid and on the way to casualty stopped at the vet and asked her to please just watch and if a C section was needed to go ahead and I proceed to the hospital with the kid. Hours later a call from the vet while we are still waiting at the hospital. Come and get the bitch Im going home. She has had a C section and has 8 puppies. I ring my daughter "come and sit with the kid until I can pick up the dog" I pick up the dog - still zonked from the anesthetic and leave her in a crate with puppies in a box on a hot water bottle in the car while I go back to hospital to be with the kid. Daugthers kids are running riot and Im going nuts so I tell her thanks - go home. Finally an hour later we get plastered up and when we came out to the car park you can hear the bitch yelling. She has come to and wants her puppies which have tipped the box over and are scattered all over the floor of the car. So Ive got an hour's drive to get home - its now been 8 hours since I left. Get home and have to get a bitch into a whelping box and make sure she is O.K. and will be good with puppies etc. then I find out that the kid with two broken arms is dying of thirst and hasnt had anything to eat and has weed all over the toot floor because his father forgot and fell asleep. The kid couldnt wake him up! Another time I had 3 with their right arms broken at the same time. One fell off a swing at the park, one was with her friends family when they hit a roo and rolled the car and the other did one at skating all within 2 weeks of each other. So it could be worse

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/victorian-motorists-in-huge-licence-rort/story-fn6b3v4f-1226035748093

Looks to me that its a done deal in Victoria. Did they ask the members first ? Look there are some circumstances that require proof of ID and address etc. Pacers for example asks for an ID photo and we attach it to the ID tags we issue for our volunteers which they wear while they are working for us to show they have approvals to fundraise- so people can see they are able to do that,if they are suspicious or want to check they can call and we can verify their approval numbers etc and we know where to look if we get a complaint or they run off with the money etc . But seriously why on earth would a member of a dog group need to attach a photo ID of themselves to their application? I get why they may need proof of where you live because they may need to inspect you its just so easy to get around if you are that way inclined but it makes breeding dogs so much more intrusive.

I will consider any that arent here by today not coming. I started looking at it seriously last week end but got held up with a broken leg on one kid and a broken arm on another. Means I have no labourers so have to do stuff myself I wouldnt normally have to do. Hoping to make a pretty big dent it it this week end. Julie

Well just remember the CC have to share info and with the behind the scenes push on for breeders to be reported to centrelink and the ATO Im not feeling all warm and fuzzy about this. They can track when you buy a new TV set and open a new bank account and anything else you have to show your licence to obtain so they will also be able to track how many dogs you own and how many you register and data match all over the place including councils because of their involvement with reduced rego fees etc. Im a member of lots of associations and none ask for photo ID. How are they going to be sure its doing anything anyway. Are they going to be able to compare one face against another - flick through all of the files to see if the same photo appears twice or check whether its a real licence number or even a real licence? Or wait it cant just be a licence right - thats why the airlines cant introduce it easily because lots of their members dont drive and dont have a licence! Perhaps for all the members who live in the boonies we will all have to attend their office and stand in a line and have our faces snapped. Or maybe attend our local post offices for them to do it and send to DV. Or maybe they will just ask for a passport photo . Will we have to carry these photo ID'S ? Will the photos be added to our member cards? Who will have the right to demand to see them under what circumstances ? Will I have to attend council personally to show my member photo ID each time I want to register a dog ? Will the security on the member cards ensure the cards cant be reproduced and forged? Will we be punished if we dont carry them ? Sounds like big money to me especially if its going to go anywhere near preventing the minute amout of people who re join under another ID when they are suspended. For God's sake there are only 33000 ANKC members Australia wide and throughout the entire country there are only 4 and half thousand ANKC breeders throughout Australia. 70% of them only have one litter per year. How many get chucked out per year in Victoria ? How many of the ones who get chucked out would care enough to join up under another ID? How many of the ones who get chucked out and care enough to have to be dodgy enough to have a second ID couldnt get someone close to them to join up and use their ID? A very big breeder I know has a prefix in her name and one each in her two daughters names. Has done for at least 28 years. If one got chucked out - unlikely because there has never been a suggestion she was doing anything worthy of being chucked out then she could use one of her other prefixes. She uses all three prefixes for various reasons. Not that hard for a mother to obtain her daughter's photo is it? Two I know of have a membership with Dogs Queensland and one each with Vic Dogs - will they be doing data matching and checking photos to see if its the same person? I voted no. They were originally intended to be a stud registry and way,way before they start looking at photo IDs for their members they need to look at how they can identify the dogs which are being entered on their stud registry. If someone wants to get stupid - get chucked out and have some delusion they can benefit by joining under another name that doesnt affect me and the rest of the members or their dogs anywhere near as much as entering false data on their pedigrees. Based on the extent of the problem which they would be supposedly addressing by introducing this its hard to buy that there isnt some other reason tucked away - even if that is only a PR exercise to snuggle up to government or RSPCA. RSPCA called it a win for them when Dogs NSW announced that as from 2012 all dogs to be registered on their registry must have their chip details entered though the reality is that this wouldnt impact what the RSPCA do as it stands one bit because all dogs in NSW have had to be chipped at point of sale or by 12 weeks anyway since 1998. So whats in it for the RSPCA or what will be in it for the RSPCA? Why do they have an interest in all dogs registered in a stud registry being able to be identified by microchip? Why are they seeing it and taking it as their victory? How is that going to stop someone saying one dog parented a litter when another did ? How is that going to stop someone using a chip number that is already in another dog or changing a number here and there to say a dog exists when it doesnt? Where will the info be matched to and how will that be treated when prevention of cruelty acts is changed to cover line breeding?

Its not going to go horribly wrong even if I have to edit it and prepare it for printing myself it will be done and sooner rather than later.

the orders are still being taken.

Thanks guys - it will be sorted any minute Im sure.

We are happy to refund anyone who doesnt want to wait though considering how hard hesapanda bear has been trying to pull this altogether and its not like the book wont be here at all it might be better to wait a minute until we have a clearer idea on how long the wait will be before we get jumpy. Obviously if its going to be too long we should go ahead and refund but hesapandabear wouldnt have called for payments if she hadnt been confident it was almost done. If the people who have been helping are not in a position to finish it off quickly surely we can find a replacement.

Not a lot of help when it was intended for a birthday present - for a birthday 2 weeks ago ;) I know there was a delay with editing and to be honest I dont know where hesapandabear is up to. I assumed that everyone knew it would be several weeks between ordering and receipt the same as the last one was. More than happy to refund if its a problem because I cant see it happening in the next fortnight. I will ask some questions and see if we can get a date.

Thats a bit of a worry How long ago did you send an email and what address did you use? I just checked everything thats come in here and no sign of an email from you re postage. Julie

Yep Im glad Im not losing the plot - somethings just cant be true. Makes you wonder what the people who make em up think. Wouldnt like to have them as neighbours.

Surely it cant be true.The more I think on it the more stupid it sounds.

Might be throwing the baby out with the bath water? Why on earth would we want to ban dogs going over seas because in one country they mis - treat cattle? Have you got your sarcasm radar turned off? Geez thank heavens for that you had me with sweat on my face !

However, while ever Mr McDougall comes up skeaky clean and the animals he purchases and ships are not being ill treated the chances of that happeneing are nil. I have no doubt if we were given the option of being able to see how many registered puppies are sold to our own pet shops we would be shocked. Those in the know are saying we provide more puppies to pet shops in this country than cross bred breeders do.