Steve

Don't give up

Ill get there. I'm only one woman and I'm working on them now.

Gee they sure snuck that one through on the quiet. When all the arguments were going on with docking everyone said dew claws would be next. That certainly didnt take long. Is Vic the only state to sneak that through so far? Hope so but how would you know? They just put through new laws and no one mentions them. If we hadn't of accidentally fallen on this one now we wouldn't have a clue it was illegal. The whole entire dog world is so over regulated you have to be a Philadelphia to have a hope of keeping up. Ive seen people do a worse job of cutting dogs toenails than Ive seen of declaws in a new pup - how long before thats a specialist job too? Im serious it sounds stupid but so does the rest of it.

Its time to swing into full speed Dog Owners Choice Awards and we would like to promote Breeders who are doing the right thing a little bit this week This category is sponsored by Eukanuba this year and we are very proud to have them on board So I have about a dozen From Puppy Up - An Owners Guide with special offers to hand out to those first 12 who nominate their breeder for Breeder of the Year and Ill throw in a dogzonline Lanyard too as Troy is the main sponsor of the entire awards . It doesnt matter how old your dog is either . 5. Breeder of the Year. Must be a registered breeder [not necessarily ANKC] and be nominated by a puppy buyer. The nomination is not about the success of the breeder’s dogs, or how many they breed. This is about service, standards and ethics provided to their puppy buyers. Nomination Forms available here

Are there any left?

I just received this from Lambplan for my Dorper Sheep breeding value estimate - what a difference a species makes - perhaps you know who should have a look at in breeding here ! Linkage One of the strengths of LAMBPLAN is that it enables direct comparison of animals across studs, which are often run under vastly different management, climatic and nutritional regimes. To do this the LAMBPLAN evaluation must be able to calculate an Australian Sheep Breeding Value (ASBV) that is free of non‐genetic (environmental) effects on the animal’s performance. Genetic linkage is one of the tools that enable this to occur. If there is no genetic linkage, ASBVs will not be calculated, instead, breeders will receive Flock Breeding Values (FBVs). FBVs allow comparison of animals within flock only. In addition to comparing across flocks, genetic linkage is required for comparison across management groups and years within a flock. To effectively achieve linkage it is important not to change all sires from one year to the next. Small studs, in particular, need to be wary of this. How to create genetic linkage: There are a number of ways to create, or improve, genetic linkage in your flock. These include: use common sires in a number of different flocks use common (link) sires across years within a flock the use of paternal half sib sires (ie, sons of one ram) across years within a flock use of paternal half sib rams in different flocks (commonly through natural mating) purchase new sires (or semen) from other flocks using LAMBPLAN evaluation increase the number of progeny by common sires and/or dams in your flock. As a rough guide, 30 measured progeny are required from link sires. Other alternatives are: 15 progeny from each of 2 link sires 10 progeny from each of 3 link sires 90 progeny from sons of link sires

Im not only interested in things which occur for breeding animals. I want to be able to enter info on its relatives including those which are never intended for breeding. Entering DNA profiles doesnt prove they were the breeding animals used unless the pups are done too. I am only talking about establishing parentage through DNA, not genetic profiling. The certificate would be matched to a microchip or tattoo identifying the dog. The pups would be done if they were going to be bred from. If they are not going to be bred from, knowing their parentage isn't as important. Having DNA to establish parentage keeps breeders honest by ensuring the dogs in the pedigrees can be identified. At the moment, it is very easy for people to substitute pups. There is no real way to verify that the pup you buy is the pup on the papers. If you can think of a better or cheaper way to keep dodgy breeders honest, we need to hear about it. Nothing will keep dodgy dishonest breeders honest. There are a dozen different ways they can operate to avoid detection if thats what they want even with DNA parentage of breeding dogs done especially if they sell all of their puppies as pets to pet shops or export or domestic pet buyers. There isn't any point for me knowing who the parents are if I cant use that info for genetic profiling and knowing who the parents are of every dog is just as important for me as knowing who the parents are of my dog. It is the only reason I breed registered dogs. Having said that this is something which is up to the CCs to consider and they may bring in but considering that many breeders still don't even chip puppies or their breeding dogs in a state where it has been law for a decade and that its not something which was recommended in the Bateson report and so far it has been voted against I cant see the purebred dog hobby going the way of the greyhound racing industry in the near future. What are people doing with different breeds in other countries? If there is no integrity, no quality control, nothing in place to catch dodgy breeding practices, then that means that purebreeds as a whole in this country lack integrity and the task of turning around people's negative perceptions will be a lot harder than it needs to be. You say that there isn't any point in knowing who the parents are if you can't use that info for genetic profiling? Really, so unless every breeding animal has a genetic profile done, there is no point in knowing who its parents are? Was there a point to it before you had access to genetic technology, or did you then have no point in knowing who your dog's parents were? Nobody is stopping you asking for genetic profiling to be done on any breeding animal or any other animal you own, if you think you need that information, and are willing to pay to collect it. If a registry started using DNA parentage testing, so that the registry knew the parentage of every breeding animal, that would have nothing at all to do with how you ran your breeding program, how you selected your breeding animals, and what information you collected about them and any other other animals in the breed. It is a suggestion merely to improve the integrity of the actual register and pedigrees. It isn't a tool to help breeders make decisions, its just to help keep all of them honest, and especially to prevent any dodgy practices infecting or damaging other breeding lines. At the very least with DNA parentage, you would know you were collecting the DNA or other information from the line you think you are collecting it from. Collecting any information with no way to positively match that with a dog, means that your info could be as dodgy as the breeder that swapped litter two generations back. If you have any better ideas to postively identify dogs, let's hear it. You are the one that came in and told us all how concerned you were about a certain problem, I just gave a suggested solution. Are you concerned really? Or are you only concerned until somebody offers a possible solution, and then you tell us that "Nothing will keep dodgy dishonest breeders honest." Don't you believe its possible to improve integrity of the registry? Or do things suit you better left just how they are now? Greytmate . I have been genetic profiling the dogs I use for breeding for longer than DNA was ever discovered and even though DNA is now available I would hope that breeders use a hell of a lot more info than DNA tests to know what they are working with.I usually was very confident about who my dogs parents were because I bred them. Of course I'm concerned - why would I pretend to be if I'm not? Offering the possible solution you have offered isn't something that I have any control over any more than most possible solutions which have been discussed so far in this thread. I can see the pros but I can also see the cons and whether one outweighs the other is going to have to be tossed over by the membership and the various CCs. In my opinion its worth looking at but this isn't the greyhound industry and there will be resistance. I don't see how I can arrange a working party to go to work on the things we can do to solve the issues and include in it mandatory DNA profiling for parentage any more than I can see how we can change any regs or laws for where a breeder can sell a puppy or how many they can have etc. I think the whole entire show is now way over regulated and Im sure as hell not going to give a tick which may be introduced into legislation while ever we have the system we have of policing them.

technically it is illegal to change a light globe without an electrician but the RSPCA aren't the ones policing that

Better get receipt

Thanks, here is what it says. Is removing dew claws on a 2 day old puppy really surgical? looks like it

I seem to recall someone (Council Officer ??? - not sure as I missed part of it on the radio) saying "yeah, but we haven't fined anyone under this law" (as though he was saying "it's ok. We're the good guys. This law hasn't been exercised." and that this makes it all ok). Hhhhhmmm .... a bit off to one side, but this makes a bit of a mockery of the "RSPCA had to do it because it is the law" type reason/excuse (other thread - Judy Garde). Point is, unjust and unfair laws shouldn't exist. But the Government and also the Organisations that push for and/or support these laws don't seem to care about that. Yes but I think what is going on now is that both sides in Victoria have given the agreement they will give more power to the RSPCA which will in fact give them the ability to police rescue as they will breeders via planning laws and their own policies. In NSW we have seen rescue and small breeders being told what they needed to operate via the RSPCA and some have not been able to comply. And there is the belief that rescue is sometimes a cover for hoarding. So up until now no one has been in the poo because council were responsible for policing it and they didn't unless there was a complaint. Its seems a bit shonky to me to join calls for tougher laws when the people who were doing the calling where looking for laws to stop puppies in pet shops and puppy farming to turn it to tougher laws for the very people calling for the laws to be thougher and more power to police planning laws and codes to the RSPCA.

This is the final word questions were asked re small rescue and Foster Carers. Im waiting until after the election to go after this and at the very least see if we can gain some ground for our members. Quote Hi Julie, If your members intend on taking in a dog or 2 to keep for themselves, then the keeping of animals permit and number restrictions come into play. If your members are taking in the dogs for nurturing and re-homing, by definition they are running a “Shelter”. Under the Domestic Animals Act 1994 a Shelter must comply with the relevant Code of Practice. End Quote. It seems its not a new law just a different definition from what I can make out. I cant remember where I saw it now - bugger- but when there was talk earlier about law changes for pounds and shelters I went to look for the definition and thought it only applied to the big boys like RSPCA or Lost Dogs home. Clearly what happened is that they have done the same to rescue as they have done to Breeders - assume they all have hundreds of animals on their premises and made the code to suit that. Again its going to come down to whether or not these laws are policed and who by. Council rarely do much to track down small breeders or small rescue and make them do what they could make them do - usually its only after a complaint that either actually are noticed.But Brumby and his opposition have both promised tougher laws and more power to the RSPCA so it could get interesting. Now this one - is the biggy if foster carers and small rescue are going to be considered shelters and it doesnt quite make sense if foster carers are aslo to be counted as shelters. The maximum time any animal selected for sale can be held at a shelter is four weeks. At the conclusion of this period, the animal must be euthanased or permanently removed from the facility, for example, by placement in a foster program. Then of course is the housing requirements. Sort of squashes all ideas of allowing it to live in a home environment and it looks like to rescue a dog its about as costly as it could get. 4.3 Housing facilities This section contains general requirements for all pounds and shelters. Housing facilities at animal shelters or pounds include isolation pens for animals with infectious diseases. Isolation facilities must be physically separated by an impervious barrier or a distance of at least 10 metres from other animal accommodation at the shelter or pound. Pounds using the facilities of a veterinary practitioner to treat injured or unhealthy animals will not require isolation pens. Facilities must have appropriate fire extinguishers or other fire protection. Note: In totally enclosed buildings where forced ventilation is the only form of air movement, the following is required: An air change rate of 8-12 changes per hour to prevent the build up of foul odours, Ventilation devices must avoid draughts and distribute fresh air evenly to all of the boarding areas, Temperature must be maintained in the range of 18-21o C. Air recirculation units incorporating effective air cleaning and filtration to ensure the removal of infectious organisms and chemicals, A back-up and alarm system in case of power failures or breakdown of ventilation and temperature control mechanisms. a. Housing pens Housing pens- for the housing of animals in the pound, shelter or holding facility. Floors of all pens must be constructed of an impervious material and must be sealed and free of cracks. All pens must be able to be secured to prevent accidental escape of animals and must be completely enclosed, having either a solid or wire roof. Where pens are constructed outdoors, a cyclone wire fence with a lockable gate must encircle each section. Sleeping quarters must be weatherproof. Outside pens and runs must provide the animals with protection from extremes of climate and weather. Housing facilities for dogs and cats must be physically separated by an impervious barrier. Dog pens must be constructed of impervious, washable materials optimally curved at the wall/floor junction to facilitate cleaning and disinfection. The line of drainage must not run from pen to pen. Individual drainage outlets must be incorporated in each pen and connected to a completely enclosed drain or pipe. Floors must be graded to the outlet. An impervious partition one metre high and sealed to the floor must separate all pens and exercise areas. Preferably pens should not be built to face each other as this will increase the noise and spread of diseases between pens. Noise barriers must be used to minimise noise to acceptable levels. Where pens are built facing each other and the drainage line is toward the centre walkway, an impervious partition one metre high must be centrally installed in the walkway to reduce the possibility of the spread of disease into opposite pens during cleaning. b. Examination, treatment and euthanasia facilities If the pound or shelter does not have a written agreement with a veterinarian for the use of facilities then a separate first-aid treatment area must be provided with a table which can be readily cleaned and disinfected, lighting and shelving, and first-aid materials including dressings, disinfectants and medicines to treat open wounds. Restricted drugs kept on the premises must be stored in accordance with the Drugs, Poisons and Controlled Substances legislation, and can only be used by or at the specific direction of a veterinarian. Hot and cold running water must be available. Euthanasia must be carried out in an area separate from where animals are housed. 4.3.1 Pen sizes a. Dogs All adult dogs must be housed one to a pen. Minimum pen sizes for each dog older than four months Height of dog at shoulder (cm) Minimum area (Sq metres) Minimum width (cm) Minimum height (cm) Above 70 3.5 120 180 40 to 70 2.4 100 180 Below 40 1.5 90 180 Note: 1. One third of the area of each pen must be weatherproof and include raised sleeping quarters. 2. Up to four weaned pups (6 - 16 weeks) can be housed in any of the above pens providing that the pups are from the same litter or, if from different litters, at the conclusion of the quarantine period following vaccination. During the quarantine period, compensatory human socialisation should be considered. b. Cats Cats must be housed individually in cages or pens constructed of impervious, washable materials during the quarantine period. Cages used to hold adult cats must be at least 70 cm wide, 70 cm deep and 50 cm high. This size cage can accommodate up to three kittens (less than 12 weeks of age) providing that the kittens are from the same litter or, if from different litters, at the conclusion of the quarantine period following vaccination. During the quarantine period, compensatory human socialisation should be considered. Cats must not be kept in cages of this size for more than eight days. Cats kept for longer than eight days must be provided with accommodation that meets the following criteria. Cages that have a minimum floor area of 1.5 square metres and a minimum height of 900 millimetres, or Walk-in modules that have a minimum floor area of 0.8 square metres, a minimum width of 900 millimetres and a minimum height of 1.8 metres. The module must contain at least two levels including raised sleeping quarters. The higher level(s) must be connected to the floor by means of a ramp or pole. After desexing, vaccination and quarantine, cats may be multiple housed in holding pens. A maximum of eight cats can be held in a pen and each cat must have a floor area of two square metres and an individual sleeping area.. Code of practice for the management of dogs and cats in shelters and pounds AG1009 Bureau of Animal Welfare, Attwood May 2002 Introduction This Code is made under the provisions of Section 59 of Division 4 of the Domestic (Feral and Nuisance) Animals Act 1994 ("the Act"). The purpose of the Code is to specify the minimum standards of accommodation, management and care which are appropriate to the physical and behavioural needs of dogs and cats housed in shelters and pounds. The Code and its provisions are to be observed by owners and operators ("the proprietor") of shelters and pounds and by people who work in them. All shelters and pounds must comply with State and Local Government legislation and permits. The Code is designed to cover all animal welfare shelters and pounds, and includes any holding facilities used by these establishments. Holding facilities for the short term housing of animals prior to transportation to a pound or shelter must comply with this code. This Code does not apply to wildlife shelters operated by persons holding an authorisation under Section 24A of the Wildlife Act 1975 to establish a shelter for the rehabilitation of native wildlife. Definitions Isolation pens are pens for animals with infectious diseases. Holding pens\facilities are for the short-term housing (less than 24 hours) of dogs or cats prior to transportation to a pound or shelter. General 1. Staff 1.1 Manager The proprietor of shelter or pound is responsible for the overall management and conduct of the establishment and for the welfare of the animals therein. Preferably a proprietor should have completed a course in animal care. In particular, the proprietor is responsible for: the well-being of all animals in the establishment; the supervision of staff; the maintenance and collation of records and statistics; supervision of daily feeding, watering and inspection of all animals; supervision and examination of animals upon entry; the overall level of hygiene in the establishment, including the disposal of waste materials; provision of prompt veterinary attention for animals when required; developing a plan for an emergency situation. 1.2 The Veterinarian The proprietor of the establishment must have a written agreement with sufficient veterinarians to be on call for humane euthanasia where an overdose of barbiturate is used and for the treatment of animals other than first aid. The veterinarian is responsible for deciding on a vaccination program for the facility in the event of an outbreak of the following diseases: Dogs canine distemper infectious canine hepatitis canine parvovirus. Cats infectious feline enteritis calicivirus herpes virus This agreement must include the use of the veterinarian’s facilities for the treatment of animals and the provision of isolation pens if the pound or shelter does not have a separate first aid and treatment area or isolation pens. 1.3 Animal Attendants The proprietor must ensure that animal attendants who work at the shelter or pound are trained and experienced to properly manage the type of animal held. The equivalent of one full - time animal attendant must be employed for every 50 animals housed. Animal attendants are responsible to the Proprietor for, daily feeding, watering and inspection of all animals, daily cleaning of facilities, ie. hose out, replace bedding, litter trays, feeding and watering utensils, reporting to management animals showing any of the following symptoms, runny nose runny or inflamed eyes sepeated sneezing coughing vomiting diarrhoea, especially if bloodstained lameness inability to stand or walk bleeding or swelling of body parts weight loss inappetence apparent pain fits or staggering bloating of abdomen difficulty or inability to urinate or defecate red or brown coloured urine. exercising dogs as required by the manager. 1.4 Staff health Some hazards exist with certain species of animals which are known to harbour disease-causing organisms which can be transmitted to man (zoonoses) Staff health must be protected by the provision of appropriate work clothing, adequate hand washing facilities and tetanus immunisation. Information must be supplied on disease-causing organisms which can be transmitted to humans (zoonoses) as well as personal hygiene. All personnel working with cats, especially women of child-bearing age, must be made aware of the risk of contracting toxoplasmosis. 1.5 The vehicle driver The driver of an animal shelter or pound vehicle must be an experienced or trained animal attendant, responsible for the following tasks: the care and welfare of all animals during transport, except where a veterinarian also travels with the consignment; the hygiene and cleanliness of the vehicle. 2. Handling and treatment of animals 2.1 Capture Capture methods must be as humane as possible with minimum risk to operators, bystanders and animals. The behaviour of the species concerned must be taken into account when deciding on the methods used. Capture (tranquilliser) guns must not be used. 2.2 Transport Animals must be transported for the minimum time practicable. Cats and small dogs may be placed in secure carrying baskets, cages or boxes, large dogs may be restrained but all animals must be physically separated. Where the pick-up of stray or injured animals is conducted on a shuttle basis the timetable must be based on ensuring minimum time in transit for distressed or injured animals. Badly injured animals should be euthanased or transported to the nearest point of veterinary attention as soon as possible. The driver is responsible for the welfare of animals in the vehicle during transportation. 2.3 Handling and treatment 2.3.1 Admission Every animal admitted to a shelter or pound must be examined by a veterinarian, or by an experienced person, who is responsible for classifying animals into the following categories for attention: a. Healthy animals b. Moderately or slightly injured animals - to be given prompt first-aid to relieve pain and preserve life, and held for observation; c. Severely injured animals, unidentified cats that are wild or uncontrollable or unweaned animals - to be promptly and humanely euthanased. d. Animals with infectious disease - to be held in isolation pens. 2.3.2 Vaccination All dogs sold from a pound or shelter must be vaccinated to cover the following diseases: canine distemper infectious canine hepatitis canine parvovirus. All cats sold from a pound or shelter must be vaccinated to cover the following diseases; infectious feline enteritis calicivirus herpes virus 2.3.3. Quarantine All vaccinated animals are required to be held in quarantine for certain periods of time before being made available for rehousing (unless previously reclaimed by their owners). Quarantine periods are: a. Dogs - 8 days. Nil if previously vaccinated, presented with current vaccination certificate and free from infectious disease. b. Cats - 8 days. Nil if previously vaccinated, presented with a vaccination certificate and free from infectious disease. At the end of the quarantine period, all animals must again be examined by the proprietor or a veterinarian to assess their suitability for sale. Pounds and shelters should develop and practice standard procedures for assessment of health and temperament in selecting animals for rehousing. 2.3.4 Isolation All animals confined in isolation pens must be under veterinary supervision and the fate of an animal should be decided by the veterinarian. 2.3.5 Euthanasia At the conclusion of the mandatory eight days period specified in the Domestic (Feral and Nuisance) Animals Act 1994 for stray animals, animals may be euthanased because of disease, injury, temperament, age, unsuitability for sale or in accordance with the Act. The preferred method of euthanasia is barbiturate overdose, which must be carried out by a veterinarian. Euthanasia must be preformed in an area that is separated from animal accommodation at the shelter or pound and must not be carried out in view of any other animals. 2.3.6 Maintenance procedures a. Nutrition All dogs and cats must be fed at least once a day. Puppies and kittens between three and four months of age require minimum of three feeds a day and between four and six months of age must be fed a minimum of twice daily with a nutritionally balanced diet. The food provided must contain acceptable nutritive values in sufficient quantity to meet appropriate daily requirements for the condition and size of the animal. All animals must have a permanent supply of fresh, clean water. Food and water containers must be non spillable and of a design that can be easily cleaned and sterilised and does not cause injury to the animals. For dogs and weaned puppies, one feeding bowl must be provided per individual animal. For cats, there must be one feeding bowl per adult and one feeding bowl per three kittens (less than 12 weeks). b. Disinfection and hygiene An important management requirement is the maintenance of a hygienic facility to prevent buildup of disease causing organisms including viruses and parasitic worm eggs. The establishment is to be clean and hygienic at all times. All pens must be cleaned out at least once per day ( twice daily if inspection shows it is required) by hosing or other appropriate means. All used, contaminated bedding and litter and all uneaten food must be removed prior to hosing. Used litter and uneaten food must be placed in sealed plastic bags for disposal. Pounds and shelters must have an adequate water supply and must be sewered or on a septic system, or have some other adequate method of disposing of faeces. Waste disposal must be in accordance with the requirements of the appropriate statutory authority. Use of a trade waste service for collection and disposal of wastes is preferable. Wastes must not be incinerated unless the incinerator is registered with the Environment Protection Authority. After cleaning, sleeping areas must not be allowed to remain wet. Cats must be provided with clean litter trays daily and litter trays must be disinfected regularly. Sufficient suitable litter material, such as commercial cat litter, sawdust or shredded paper, must be provided. Disinfection of pens and cages must be done whenever the pen/cage is vacated or every eighth day with hospital grade disinfectants. Utensils must be rinsed after disinfecting to avoid poisoning. Phenol must not be used for cats. Manufacturer’s instructions for the use of these agents must be followed. All watering and feeding utensils must be cleaned daily. Pests including fleas, ticks, flies, mosquitoes and rodents must be effectively controlled. Chemicals used for pest control must be either prescribed by a registered veterinarian and\or registered by the National Registration Authority (NRA) under the Agricultural and Veterinary Chemicals Code (Commonwealth) and used only in accordance with manufacturer’s instructions c. Inspection Animal attendants must inspect every animal daily, noting its general appearance and behaviour. It is the responsibility of animal attendants at animal shelters and pounds to report any animal that appears sick or injured, or is behaving oddly, to the proprietor or veterinarian as soon as possible. Animals suspected of having an infectious disease should be placed in isolation for treatment by a veterinarian. d. Exercise The proprietor of a shelter or a pound that sells dogs may exercise/socialise up to two dogs together following the quarantine period provided that: (i) the dogs are within a securely fenced area, and (ii) a person is in the pen with the dogs at all times. Care must be taken to ensure that dogs being exercised cannot escape and are not in danger of attack or other injury. Dogs must not be walked on roads but confined within the premises for safety reasons. 2.3.7 Rehousing (sale of animals) All animals sold from a pound or shelter must be wormed, desexed and vaccinated. Sick, aggressive, pregnant, unweaned, anti-social or deformed animals, or animals with known vices such as excessive barking, fence jumping (dogs) must not be made available for sale. New owners must be supplied with a vaccination certificate and be given literature about feeding, housing and responsible pet ownership. They should also be encouraged to seek advice about problems with the pets from veterinarians or people with experience in animal care and management. If an animal is not acceptable to a purchaser because of health or other reasons that are supported by a statement from a veterinarian, excluding accidents within seven days of purchase, pound or shelter proprietors must take the animal back and refund all monies or offer a replacement animal with the same guarantee. If an animal is returned within three days for any other reason, the pound or shelter proprietor must refund 75% of the purchase price or offer a replacement animal with the same guarantee. If the animal dies or is euthanased as a result of a disease that is traceable to the point of sale, the pound or shelter proprietor must refund the purchase price or offer a replacement animal with the same guarantee. The maximum time any animal selected for sale can be held at a shelter is four weeks. At the conclusion of this period, the animal must be euthanased or permanently removed from the facility, for example, by placement in a foster program. 2.3.8 Public access to pounds and animal shelters serving as pounds Reasonable periods for public access to pounds and shelters must be provided during working hours and include reasonable times after hours or at weekends. Public access at pounds may be by appointment with the Ranger. 2.3.9 Release of animals to research institutions Pound animals may only be released to research organisations under the provisions of the Code of practice for the use of animals from municipal pounds in scientific procedures. 3. Responsible pet ownership Animal shelters and pounds which sell animals should assist in promoting responsible pet ownership in the community by the following methods: a. Providing new pet owners with advice on pet care and information leaflets about veterinary attention that is required for animals after purchase (such as follow-up vaccination), and current legislation covering the registration of pet animals. b. Providing prospective buyers with advice on the most suitable type of dog for their environment (consider yard size, exercise requirements, children etc.) Note: Section 13 of the Domestic (Feral and Nuisance) Animals Act 1994 requires the proprietor of a pound or shelter that sells an unregistered dog or cat to notify the Council where the animal will live of the sale of that animal. 4. Buildings and facilities 4.1 Animal transport vehicles Vehicles used for the transport of animals must have the following features: provision for animals to be physically separated and restrained; no protrusions or sharp edges in the framework, doors, partitions, etc; a design that is both escape-proof and prevents the protrusion of head and/or limbs of any animal carried; floors which are strong enough to bear the weight of the animals being transported, and have a non-slip surface to minimise the likelihood of injury; weatherproof with adequate ventilation of vehicles both when stationary and in motion; facilities for ease of loading and unloading animals with minimal risk of injury to the animals and humans; materials and a design that allow for effective cleaning and disinfection. 4.2 Food storage and hygiene Facilities for the storage and preparation of food must be separate from any animal accommodation. Feed storage facilities in establishments must be vermin proof and available to hold a minimum of five days requirements under peak conditions. 4.3 Housing facilities This section contains general requirements for all pounds and shelters. Housing facilities at animal shelters or pounds include isolation pens for animals with infectious diseases. Isolation facilities must be physically separated by an impervious barrier or a distance of at least 10 metres from other animal accommodation at the shelter or pound. Pounds using the facilities of a veterinary practitioner to treat injured or unhealthy animals will not require isolation pens. Facilities must have appropriate fire extinguishers or other fire protection. Note: In totally enclosed buildings where forced ventilation is the only form of air movement, the following is required: An air change rate of 8-12 changes per hour to prevent the build up of foul odours, Ventilation devices must avoid draughts and distribute fresh air evenly to all of the boarding areas, Temperature must be maintained in the range of 18-21o C. Air recirculation units incorporating effective air cleaning and filtration to ensure the removal of infectious organisms and chemicals, A back-up and alarm system in case of power failures or breakdown of ventilation and temperature control mechanisms. a. Housing pens Housing pens- for the housing of animals in the pound, shelter or holding facility. Floors of all pens must be constructed of an impervious material and must be sealed and free of cracks. All pens must be able to be secured to prevent accidental escape of animals and must be completely enclosed, having either a solid or wire roof. Where pens are constructed outdoors, a cyclone wire fence with a lockable gate must encircle each section. Sleeping quarters must be weatherproof. Outside pens and runs must provide the animals with protection from extremes of climate and weather. Housing facilities for dogs and cats must be physically separated by an impervious barrier. Dog pens must be constructed of impervious, washable materials optimally curved at the wall/floor junction to facilitate cleaning and disinfection. The line of drainage must not run from pen to pen. Individual drainage outlets must be incorporated in each pen and connected to a completely enclosed drain or pipe. Floors must be graded to the outlet. An impervious partition one metre high and sealed to the floor must separate all pens and exercise areas. Preferably pens should not be built to face each other as this will increase the noise and spread of diseases between pens. Noise barriers must be used to minimise noise to acceptable levels. Where pens are built facing each other and the drainage line is toward the centre walkway, an impervious partition one metre high must be centrally installed in the walkway to reduce the possibility of the spread of disease into opposite pens during cleaning. b. Examination, treatment and euthanasia facilities If the pound or shelter does not have a written agreement with a veterinarian for the use of facilities then a separate first-aid treatment area must be provided with a table which can be readily cleaned and disinfected, lighting and shelving, and first-aid materials including dressings, disinfectants and medicines to treat open wounds. Restricted drugs kept on the premises must be stored in accordance with the Drugs, Poisons and Controlled Substances legislation, and can only be used by or at the specific direction of a veterinarian. Hot and cold running water must be available. Euthanasia must be carried out in an area separate from where animals are housed. 4.3.1 Pen sizes a. Dogs All adult dogs must be housed one to a pen. Minimum pen sizes for each dog older than four months Height of dog at shoulder (cm) Minimum area (Sq metres) Minimum width (cm) Minimum height (cm) Above 70 3.5 120 180 40 to 70 2.4 100 180 Below 40 1.5 90 180 Note: 1. One third of the area of each pen must be weatherproof and include raised sleeping quarters. 2. Up to four weaned pups (6 - 16 weeks) can be housed in any of the above pens providing that the pups are from the same litter or, if from different litters, at the conclusion of the quarantine period following vaccination. During the quarantine period, compensatory human socialisation should be considered. b. Cats Cats must be housed individually in cages or pens constructed of impervious, washable materials during the quarantine period. Cages used to hold adult cats must be at least 70 cm wide, 70 cm deep and 50 cm high. This size cage can accommodate up to three kittens (less than 12 weeks of age) providing that the kittens are from the same litter or, if from different litters, at the conclusion of the quarantine period following vaccination. During the quarantine period, compensatory human socialisation should be considered. Cats must not be kept in cages of this size for more than eight days. Cats kept for longer than eight days must be provided with accommodation that meets the following criteria. Cages that have a minimum floor area of 1.5 square metres and a minimum height of 900 millimetres, or Walk-in modules that have a minimum floor area of 0.8 square metres, a minimum width of 900 millimetres and a minimum height of 1.8 metres. The module must contain at least two levels including raised sleeping quarters. The higher level(s) must be connected to the floor by means of a ramp or pole. After desexing, vaccination and quarantine, cats may be multiple housed in holding pens. A maximum of eight cats can be held in a pen and each cat must have a floor area of two square metres and an individual sleeping area.. 5. Records The proprietor of the establishment shall ensure that the following details are recorded and retained in compliance with the requirements of the Public Records Office: a. For animals handed in by owners: species of animal the name of the animal contact telephone number and address of the owner or the owner’s nominee a description of the animal including: sex and whether the animal is desexed breed type colour age details of medical, dietary, bathing and grooming requirements vaccination status heartworm treatment (dogs) any behaviour problems any permanent identification. reason the animal was handed in. b. For animals seized under the Act. species of animal location where animal was seized date animal was seized name and address of person who seized the animal (business address of authorised officers or Council contractors) reason why animal was seized a description of the animal including: sex and whether the animal is desexed breed type colour age any behaviour problems noted during seizure, eg aggression any permanent identification. c. Outcome fate of animal, including (where appropriate), name an address of person who claimed the animal date animal euthanased date animal sold, name and address of purchaser and municipality where the animal will be registered. in the event that the animal is sold date animal desexed date animal was vaccinated and matching vaccination certificate.

Good.

Now according to this you only need these pieces of paper from the council if the dog is being debarked because it is a public nuisance http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/DPI/nreninf.nsf/...19000EFD4A?open Given the definition of prophylactic is - Acting to defend against or prevent something, especially disease; protective. I reckon its a fair argument that a person could have them debarked to protect them from being in the poo for barking. This code aims to protect the welfare of dogs from indiscriminate debarking and to encourage considerate management of debarked dogs. This Code is complementary to and should be read in conjunction with Clause 9(l) of the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act which prohibits debarking of dogs except by and on the advice of a registered veterinary practitioner and in accordance with this Code of Practice. Meaning of debarking For the purposes of this Code 'debarking' means the surgical operation performed by a registered veterinary practitioner to reduce the noise of a dog's bark. When a dog is debarked its ability to communicate with other animals and human beings is reduced. Most debarked dogs have a subdued "husky" bark, audible up to 20 metres. Circumstances in which a dog may be debarked This code recognises that debarking a dog may be necessary for therapeutic or prophylactic effects, or as an alternative to euthanasia for a dog declared to be a public nuisance because it barks persistently. A dog is a public nuisance where – there have been written complaints from the occupiers of not less than two neighbouring residences or in isolated areas two written complaints from persons occupying the same residence, submitted to the Municipal offices, and investigation by an authorised officer of the municipality confirms that despite every reasonable effort by the owner to discourage the dog from barking by considerate care, training and management the dog continues to bark persistently. This Code does not approve of debarking as a substitute for proper care, management and training of a dog. When management changes and training are undertaken, sufficient time should always be allowed for behaviour changes in a dog to be evident. Responsibilities of the owner in the case of a dog which is a public nuisance An owner who intends to have a dog debarked BECAUSE IT IS A PUBLIC NUISANCE must first complete a Statutory Declaration to the effect that the dog is a public nuisance because of its persistent barking and that every reasonable effort has been made to discourage the dog from barking by considerate care, training and management. The owner is to further declare that the only alternative to debarking the dog is to have it destroyed. A model Statutory Declaration is attached. The owner must also obtain from the Chief Executive Officer (or delegate) of the Council of the Municipal District in which the dog is registered a written declaration which certifies that - there have been written complaints from two or more neighbouring residences or, in isolated areas, two written complaints from the same residence, submitted to the Municipal offices, and an authorised officer of the Municipality has investigated the complaints and has confirmed that reasonable efforts by the owner have failed to discourage the dog from persistently barking. A model declaration is attached (Appendix). The Registered Veterinary Practitioner who is to perform the debarking operation is required to notify the Bureau of Animal Welfare within 7 days of each such operation. A model declaration is attached. In the case of a licensed scientific establishment, the Statutory Declaration may be accompanied by a certificate from the Bureau of Animal Welfare in lieu of a certification by the Chief Executive Officer (or equivalent) of the Municipality. Any dog found to be a persistent barker during its holding and preparation period should not be held for scientific purposes. Responsibilities of the registered veterinary practitioner Before agreeing to perform a debarking operation the registered veterinary practitioner should consider the history and physical condition of the dog and arrangements for post-operative care and management. If the welfare of a dog after debarking is likely to be jeopardised because it is not able to attract attention to discomfort or danger, the dog should not be debarked. The recommended method for debarking The recommended method for debarking (ventriculocordectomy) is by using a ventral laryngotomy approach as compared to the oral approach. The two primary post-operative complications of either procedure are return to bark and stricture or “webbing” of the glottis. Some return of the bark can be expected after ventriculocordectomy especially with the oral approach. The ventral approach gives more consistent and satisfactory results because it permits better exposure and, generally, more complete removal of the vocal cords. Owners of dogs who request “debarking” should be advised of the possible complications. The registered veterinary practitioner must be certain that clients understand the risks and limitations of the procedure before accepting the case. The registered veterinary practitioner should also advise the owner or person-in-charge on the care and management of a debarked dog. It may not be necessary to completely separate a debarked dog from other dogs but care should always be taken soon after the operation or with dogs which are unfamiliar to the debarked dog. Appendices: Declaration by chief executive officer (see PDF) Declaration by registered veterinary officer (see PDF) Owner statutory declaration for debarking a dog which is a public nuisance (see PDF)

No, you have missed nothing, as far aw I know anywho. But, there are those receptionists at some vet surgeries will tell you "We dont remove dewclaws on pups here". They say it as a form of mutilation and this is the general feeling that is passed on to new vet nursing recruits I am told. The vets themselves WILL do it, 9 times out of 10. It is pathetic when you have to get past the receptionist and ask the vet but that is the way it is. I suppose they feel that if they keep up their PETA mantra and keep on bullying people out of having it done, most people will THINK there is a law against it, when there is not. Souff Unfortunately, it looks like I DID miss something Under the DPI (Vic) regulations, dewclaws may only be removed by a veterinarian. So at least we can still do it, but..... now to find a vet who will as you say, do it and be, who KNOWS how to do it. Gonna say here and now, if there is anyone in Victoria who hasn't read the DPI website and all publications/links relating to dogs & cats in Victoria - do it as soon as you can and take notes because any one of us could be next Are you kidding me- when were they going to let us know - when the first charges were laid? No fricken' idea! I will find the exact legislation tomorrow (if you haven't already, I'm about to go to bed). I had to read and re-read as when I had my litter I checked and triple checked what the legislation was. Definitely something that NEEDS to be out there so that people know. Erny- I would rather trust a breeder with hands on experience over a clinically trained veterinarian to touch my babies any day. Not to mention the risk that is incurred taking the litter to a vet clinic to be done. One thing I am still unclear on is, can we still have our dogs debarked interstate as long as we don't exhibit in Victoria? yes cute isnt it, you take your puppies to the vet for their vaccinations and they take no responsibility if they catch any of the 101 diseases some visiting actually SICK dog is busy shedding in the waiting room. and now they want you to bring them in even younger for their dewclaws to be done IF THEY will do it? yet how many have seen the mess unclipped dewclaws can make when they havent been removed? like who decides to make this nonsense law? http://new.dpi.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pd...37/Dog-code.pdf Its just over regulation at its best. They haven't stopped you yet from doing it interstate so Im assuming anyone who is needing to have their pups done will come and visit across the border for a day to be sure they arent breaking the law when they do it In fact considering the whole debarking thing its probably best if you come interstate for a holiday to whelp your bitch too. I might set up holiday whelping cabins so people can come and stay with their bitches ,whelp them because you can give em an injection here too without a vet to do it, nip the dewclaws off and everyone will be happy. Come to think of it you'd better bring em across the border to mate them too in case in 5 years time they find you have bred a carrier. Wonder how long it will be before we cant cut their toe nails?

http://new.dpi.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pd...37/Dog-code.pdf Number 11.

Well that at least makes more sense than DogsNSW where only accredited breeders need do it.

Well that at least makes more sense than DogsNSW where only accredited breeders need do it.

Im not only interested in things which occur for breeding animals. I want to be able to enter info on its relatives including those which are never intended for breeding. Entering DNA profiles doesnt prove they were the breeding animals used unless the pups are done too. I am only talking about establishing parentage through DNA, not genetic profiling. The certificate would be matched to a microchip or tattoo identifying the dog. The pups would be done if they were going to be bred from. If they are not going to be bred from, knowing their parentage isn't as important. Having DNA to establish parentage keeps breeders honest by ensuring the dogs in the pedigrees can be identified. At the moment, it is very easy for people to substitute pups. There is no real way to verify that the pup you buy is the pup on the papers. If you can think of a better or cheaper way to keep dodgy breeders honest, we need to hear about it. Nothing will keep dodgy dishonest breeders honest. There are a dozen different ways they can operate to avoid detection if thats what they want even with DNA parentage of breeding dogs done especially if they sell all of their puppies as pets to pet shops or export or domestic pet buyers. There isn't any point for me knowing who the parents are if I cant use that info for genetic profiling and knowing who the parents are of every dog is just as important for me as knowing who the parents are of my dog. It is the only reason I breed registered dogs. Having said that this is something which is up to the CCs to consider and they may bring in but considering that many breeders still don't even chip puppies or their breeding dogs in a state where it has been law for a decade and that its not something which was recommended in the Bateson report and so far it has been voted against I cant see the purebred dog hobby going the way of the greyhound racing industry in the near future.

Im not only interested in things which occur for breeding animals. I want to be able to enter info on its relatives including those which are never intended for breeding. Entering DNA profiles doesnt prove they were the breeding animals used unless the pups are done too.

Did Victorian breeders know it is illegal to do your own dew claws?

Vets are no good - they hurt them.

No, you have missed nothing, as far aw I know anywho. But, there are those receptionists at some vet surgeries will tell you "We dont remove dewclaws on pups here". They say it as a form of mutilation and this is the general feeling that is passed on to new vet nursing recruits I am told. The vets themselves WILL do it, 9 times out of 10. It is pathetic when you have to get past the receptionist and ask the vet but that is the way it is. I suppose they feel that if they keep up their PETA mantra and keep on bullying people out of having it done, most people will THINK there is a law against it, when there is not. Souff Unfortunately, it looks like I DID miss something Under the DPI (Vic) regulations, dewclaws may only be removed by a veterinarian. So at least we can still do it, but..... now to find a vet who will as you say, do it and be, who KNOWS how to do it. Gonna say here and now, if there is anyone in Victoria who hasn't read the DPI website and all publications/links relating to dogs & cats in Victoria - do it as soon as you can and take notes because any one of us could be next Are you kidding me- when were they going to let us know - when the first charges were laid?

It has to be registered in the KC of the county it lives in and is on the team representing. So If I send a limited to the US, it can not be registered there on limited because there is no system between OZ and the US to do that. So that dog could never be treated as a purebred dog, which would include being refused the right to represent the US on their world team as a purebred dog. Yet there will lots of limited registred dogs on the US team, just not OZ limited. See how it works? Well thats interesting and if true then that opens a can of worms which I may just need to tickle a bit. I think the missing part is there has not been any agreement between ANKC and other Kennel clubs about this issue. Again it is view coming from a showing and breeding perspective. But folks the world is changing, Kennel club has to be for everybody, things like doing dog sports or being a member of the local breed club are just as important now. An imported limited dog is a purebred and deserves that recognition with in the limits of the limited program. If you think about it, why shouldn't a limited registered dog not be able to get a certified pedigree and registration. All that is doing is certifying it is correct and true to the new registry. Not all countries will have Limited programs, but these days I think most do. Hawaii was mentioned, I get a number of enquiries for dogs to do activities with from there, these are very nice homes not pet shops. Even though they have no intention to breed, they always think twice when they realize with limited they will not be able to register their dog at all in the AKC. This would mean that the best they could hope for is called an associate type program. That means they cannot go to breed club trials, they would never be able to try out for any international compitition (that all the other AKC limited dogs could do), and the breeder here in Australia will never get any credit for the dog, as there will be no allowed use of the prefix. BTW the owners also have great pride in their dogs real full KC name and want to use it. Now if people get up to some sort of bad behaviour with limited pedigrees I am unaware of that. I only see it from the point of view by the buyers of these dogs, who should not be casted off as second class dogs just because they are on limited and were exported. Yep and lets face it main register isn't hard to get anyway as is evidenced by Mcdougall.

Well Id like to see heaps more real research done by University and even though the one you are looking at doesn't really turn me on much and its hard to see what good it would do based on what you have told me I'm up for giving you a hand and helping you find others who will too. When ever you have a minute Ill tell you what Id like to see being researched.