percyk

just because the cocker is there first doesnt mean it will be alpha and that hierarchy can shift as one gets older and the younger ones gain confidence id certainly give the cocker a chance to chill out and let her eat and toilet by herself too - some older dogs can get really thingy when theyre trying to find a spot to go and a pup is at them to play id let the pup nip a bit - the older dog will teach her bite inhibition and it's ok if she puts her in her place later you can walk both of them - maybe someone can help i walk a new pup on the other side of the older dog usually til they work things out - you dont want to be having a pup mucking around and twisting wildly to get to the old girl- correct her and distract her - reward when she is doingthe right thing even if it's for a microsecond if you teach her to focus on you then it's much much easier- we do it by saying the dogs name and making sure she looks you in the face not the reward before you give praiseand treat- do this lots - 5- 10 times three times a day in the beginning and at random times - just so that she knows her name means something important practise walking on lead with her in the hall or in your yard where there are no distractions often walking them together settles the new one into a behaviour that is more acceptable - she is part of a pack with you as leader but this comes after she has basic control over her impulses inside have her on a tether or lead preferrably with someone to help you and do some training with both ( of course youll need to train him separately to get her basics going ) but we still do this with our group of dogs - everyone has to sit do a drop and a stay and we have a little circus routine working with chicken works well because theyre all motivated and its very easy to get their attention but it's also important that they learn to obey without food rewards so we mix it up with the younger ones if the pup is really getting rough and annoying then put her out or in the laundry or garage - just make sure theres nothing that she can destroy or thats harmful but only for a few minutes - she has to learn what the alternative is so give her a reward for sitting nicely or doing a trick - anything that isnt annoying your old girl you dont want her running amok in parks either annoying other dogs so this behaviour youre trying to mould - to 'leave it' is really important in many aspects of her social life practise calling herfrom different parts of the yard or house with bbq chicken so that she associates hername with something pleasant ( dont call herfor grooming or bathing - just go get her!)this way when shes being rough and you call her away you have more chance of her responding if she thinks theres chicken coming! you have to be firmthough too so if shes being a monkey do the 'ahh ahh' noise or a' nooooooo' make sure youre lowering your voice and not talking in an excited squeak they have to know the difference between praise and a reprimand have her on leash if shes being unpredictable and yank her if shes being rough and not leaving the older girl alone - make her sit and focus on you and give really high value treats toshow her that youre more fun - but time it just right - you dont want her thinking that youre rewarding her for 'hassling'- make her work to get that treat after she has been rough or 'naughty' in other ways she is a puppy so she will grow out of a lot of behaviours - it's just your job to make sure the older dog has some rights too! bitches can be unpredictable so do watch that the younger girl doesnt start bossing the older one as she starts to decline in a few years- a young bitch can behave but some start to usurp the throne when they feel the older girl isnt quite with it andthsi can lead to fights over bedding and food enjoy hopefully they might end up just fine together

i think you may be right the dog may not bite intentionally when kids are around but they may get that deflected bite - where the dog is hyped up and will snap dont feel badly you tried and now you have the right to choose a suitable dog for your JP as you said - your home isnt the right one - doesnt mean that Rusky cant find happiness elsewhere hugs to you cos i know youll be feeling lousy ( but relieved i bet)

this could go either way and it depends on a lot of factors firstly the dogs history with other dogs ( not just the jrt ) would be handy toknow you did want a companion for your young dog, didnt you, so having a dog that is at best disinterested in playing and at worst aggressive defeats that purpose we have had a multiple dog household for years now generally it's peaceful although some can squabble over a toy or food if they find some but it's not full on attacks the thing is - you can make your dogs tolerate each other - but they may not be buddies - you can make them live in peace by really working on your leadership ( you will need to read and read and talk toloads of people so you start getting that bit right as soon as possible) but if you want a dog to be living and romping happily with your dog then this may not be ideal dog when i introduce a new pup - i do it one at a time and there is a varied reaction - from indifference to mild hostility ( that kind of herding harassment) but no biting has ever occurred - if there's an interest - a positive one then the dogs get on from day one and become buddies since youre not introducing a puppy it's a whole lot harder the jrt may have been the dominant or the submissive one but somehow the hierarchy at the moment isnt clear you dont want your own dog's personality being changed either dogs can be overwhelmed and become withdrawn even if theyre not being aggressive back and that is sad - especially when the whole idea was to get him a friend if your own dog is attached to you then that too cancause problems of possessiveness - your dog is still young but things can change as he matures and finally he may start to retaliate - this can happen weeks months or years the fact that there was an attack indicates that the older dog has already started to take over and so you really need to show him who is boss you can do this by walking him on his own and then have your partner (?) walk the other dog with you two between them feed them separately of course for now but also make sure that noone gets any privileges like getting up on couches and beds if youre petting one - have the other on a leash being held by someone - pet each one and give treats to the other one - as long as he is calm ..showing him that good things happen when the other dog is around dont tolerate any growling or snapping - that sort of behaviour earns time out for a few minutes - any biting and the dog should be put somewhere where he cant see anything going on - then reintroduce him on the lead and do a bit of training where he is totally focussed on you not on the other dog it can be done - of course it can - dogs that are quite horribly aggressive can be taught to behave and this is certainly not like that but know your limitations - if your heart isnt in it it will be harder to help this dog to settle in but if youre feeling that youd really like to give this thing a go then take a deep breath and set your jaw (!) - there is no backing down when youre trying to establish dominance in a pack with yourself as leader and to insist on harmony between dogs a behaviourist, like i said in another post will sometimes talk to you over the phone but i think in this case because the rescue is not a pup a consultation will be scheduled - some will charge you for talking to you - again around the 100 dollar mark a consultation means you going out to the training centre for a couple of hours - sometimes three - some will charge around the 6oo dollar mark for this time and a follow up visit some will only charge about 300 which seems a lot but when youknow how others charge then it is cheap lol!!! many behaviourists are booked solid on the weekends and you may have to wait a month or more - others will only give you a time slot during the week that is available - very little flexibility so you will need time off work i dont see the purpose of going to a behaviour centre really because the problems often dont occur there - the dogs are not on familiar ground and so may not be displaying the sort of behaviour that you want sorted - alternatively they may be displaying behaviour that doesnt happen at home! if you want them to come to your home, some will charge travelling time too in the meantime you could join a training club - see what trainers say - but many trainers arent all that versed in these situations either so you have to be careful to listen to only what makes sense - and that comes from your own reading here and on other websites i really feel for you - i know how stressful it can be when dogs dont get on - it's bad enough when you encounter them on the street but living on eggshells is not fun not trying to play devils advocate - dont be afraid to return the dog if you think you cant handle this situation - spend the weekend talking to people if you can get advice on the phone give it a couple of weeks and if there is no sign of improvement or if youre just too worried about your own dogs welfare- it's not worth it rescuing is a noble thing but sometimes it's not for your particular situation especially cos you already have a dog that has its own needs

double post -sorry!

what about bang youre dead that gets the kids giggling dog has to learn to watch the pistol signal and drop down on its side quickly our old cocker was a scream as she got older and older shed still aim to please but it took her ages to die lol she was like that scene from that peter sellers movie - cant remember the name- where the two bit actor steals the scene by dying so slowly and dramatically when he was really just an extra! you can try 'speak' everytime your dog barks say 'speak' in a high pitched voice and imitate the head movement when dogs bark - kinda throw it upwards another easy one is getting them tojump through hula hoops you can start with it jumping over your outstretched leg or even a broomstick on the floor get someone to lead the dog over it or entice with treat we say ' over' our dogs can goroundthe lounges of our house like circus performers they jump onto the next one and lie downready forthe next signal very impressive when we have little kids watching the circus! dont start this one til the pup is much older cos of the joints but you can start by getting the dog to just step over things and learn the word so when its able to jump safely thenit already knows what you mean hi 5 is easy too of course if you teach the dog to fetch then it's fun to have them bring all sorts of stuff my dachsie and gsd used to fetch their leads and bowls - the gsd in the end could fetch just aboutanything you pointed to have fun!

Ask him to add you to his email notification list. Then you'll be automatically alerted by email of upcoming seminar/workshops. thanks Erny!

i think it's timing it right like if hes barking you cant let him in cos youre rewarding him so you have to wait and invite him in BEFORE he starts to bark- that way he doesnt associate the barking with ' oh good theyre gonna let me in!" surprise him - call him and reward and teach him a word like 'quiet' while hes being quiet i had one like that- hed not even toilet without nervously looking for me but hes better - he is still a barker but the times between are much longer i worked on his obedience all the while and hes a biddable dog i will not open the door if hes barking i will motion for him to sit ( i used to open the door and block the way then command sit and hed stop the barking as he sat thenid quickly let him in and repeat it - put him outside make him sit and let him in) so this is what id try: take the cav with you outside and just practise getting it to sit outside the door - no anxiety cos it knows youre with him lots of treats along the way then open the door - keep the dog leashed and make it sit after its mastered that you stand facing the dog still blocking the doorway with your legs and make it sit now after a few goes and successes- you go in and make the dog stay - but only for a microsecond then step back outside with it so the dog barely notices your absence increase the time that you are separated from the dog but keep it in a sit if you can ( basically it's like when you train the dog to stay - you only ever leave it for the time it can bear so it meets with success) sounds like it's times- consuming but cavs love their food so it might work faster than you think try to vary your routine - take the dog out on a leash and come back straight away - youre teaching the dog that the time spent out there is so insignificant let the dog out and make it sit and then quickly bring it in again repeat over and over - this way the dog is kept busy and not worrying about the prolonged separation mind you - i did none of this with my first cocker who had sep anxiety - we were about to get the quick fix with a collar ( she was howling) and even meds but then the vet suggested we simply let her inside and she wasfine - surrounded by familiar things she was comfortable and calm for this reason i allow my dogs to stay inside too - i have checked ( sneaked back and noone is howling and when we approach in the car my son has checked too by getting out of the car at the top of the street as we are heading home and sneaking round the back without them hearing and everyone is calm) good luck with this - i know it is stressful

There has only just been one in sydney - it was fantastic! (thanks Steve!) so we can check Steve's website for any upcoming events?

i have come across a few people who have had various problems and having seen their dogs youd not believe thye ever had a problem- they seem so fine! these people have not had a behaviourist but just used what they knew - yours may be a different story but there are a few things you could try from reading and observing and asking questions with any phobia i still reckon you have to be the leader and get your dog through it - but of course you dont immerse them in a situation they cant handle but you still have to challenge him to face his fears a little at a time and go beyond that point - tiny steps at a time think of wild animals - if they can be tamed at an older age then it must be possible to get your dobe through this and out the other end what you need is a controlled environment so he meets with success each time and, of course, in town you cant guarantee it, can you but you can be vigilant and watch out for things that he particularly fears and introduce him from a different angle or from a distance i spoke to someone recently who 'tamed' a really fearful older kelpie just with persistence and kindness and firmness - not showing fear or disappointment in the voice not reassuring too much except by leading them through it as for the treats - i dont know but id be still opting for treats - the fav ones so that the visits to town are linked with pleasant sensations- maybe you could even give him a half ration the night before so he is a bit hungrier? as long as this doesnt stress him out more but i cant think that it would is there a coffee shop or somewhere you could sit and be on the outskirts of the action but he could still view it all unfolding would he not lie at your feet - i know some people who bring a mat that the dog is used to and teach them to lie on that when they take them out to a cafe twice a week is better than nothing but i would persist and take every other chance to take him id be doing some heeling practise and some other basic commands in the quieter end of town and then gradually encourage him into the zone he's fearful of i have given people treats to give to my dogs - yep i know that lots of people are against this idea because they dont want dogs poisoned but we dont live in an area where dogs would be baited and it's more important for my dogs to accept people and be sociable i have given treats to my dog as they meet another dog - through a fence or at a distance i think it's possible but you can ring a behaviourist if youre still unsure of how to proceed - some will talk to you on the phone - some wont and will want to charge for a phone consultation good luck and let us know hope your dog turns a corner and heads in the right direction ( hard to believe that he is fearful - usually dogs raised round the showring arent) oh just remembered -my alpha bitch used to be scared of people ( this was about 6 years ago - shes 8 now )e but when our house was on the market we sat outsid with her on a leash ( in the garden ) and we werent even aiming for anything but she was cured - took about 4 saturdays of about an hour each no treats just settling her and not letting her run away

oh boy that is vile what a horrible turn of events!! hope that your dogs will be fine - thats the main thing but still the money and trauma side of it id ring a solicitor - you might be able to glean something from just a phone call which would lend weight to further discussions with your BB person

Rest assured that his plumbing is working just fine . As I mentioned, I don't think he was pretending to pee. More that he was hoping his posturing would earn him a treat. I guess much like they do when they offer their latest trick you've just taught them. Proven by the fact that shortly after he did this he let go a pee where he wasn't supposed to, LOL. My mistake!!! ;) I too think the work with parrots and their latest revelation of what they are capable of is very interesting, amazing and delightful. ETA : Sorry Isiss. Seems I have hi-jacked your thread, or at least taken it outwards and beyond your intended topic. How are you going with little pup? yeah sorry Isiss - i was only thinking this morning that the thread got a bit off track but thanks for stimulating the discussion i have learned something once again thanks Erny for clarifying LOL

that is interesting but i wouldve expected apes to be able to pull something off they can construct requests by using flash cards - who was that chimp lady that worked with them for years? not diana somebody who did gorillas in the mist - someone else.... thanks for googling! birds are interesting too - seems that african greys can do sums with those plastic fridge magnet numbers and can ask something in context - like 'porridge' when youre eating porridge i findthat sooo cool solittle is known about pet parrots - hope they find out more in my lifetime!

I haven't taken a moment to check the link out yet, but yes, I believe there is a "pretend/deceive" element that our animals learn. Although I think often-times it is not pretence necessarily .... I think it is that it is their perception that they have been rewarded for that very action. After all, wouldn't we be likely to act very quickly when we see any of our animals 'about' to chew on a (eg) power cord? Just the same as my 4 mo pup has worked out that he gets a reward for toileting outside. He occasionally tries it on for showing the 'posture' position of a toilet squat without needing to empty anything. There is a current thread in puppy forum which shows this is not uncommon. Although I'm obviously not in puppy's head to know his precise thoughts, I do not believe it is about 'deception' but about his belief in the possibility that maybe he will get a reward for the posturing alone. Perhaps I've even inadvertently rewarded him on one ocassion for it .... thinking he'd gone to the toilet or perhaps offering the reward too early. wow Erny pretending to wee >>that is amazing i wouldve rung the vet suspecting itd be some straining/ blockage lol!~

It's all conditioning. The use of the word 'pretend' is problematic... Behavior that is rewarded is more likely to be repeated. So... The first time the hare chews on the cord, hare gets chased (reward). The next time the hare chews on the cord, hare gets chased (reward). The behavior is more likely to be repeated. No different than the way my dog runs to his mat the second he hears me heading toward the lounge room. Was he 'pretending' he was lying on his mat? No - it's simply that he's been conditioned that lying on his mat is likely to get a reward. He can't help it. ok i get it a bit - thanks Luke just didnt think that hares stopped at chewing and just pretended - thought theyd either do it or not! not just lower their heads the bit about the mat i get - thats not pretending to me pretending means ( to me) that youre faking it your dog might know hes going to be admonished for being off his mat or rewarded for being on the mat - thats clear i just wonder if any animal can actually feign something....

"My hare will deliberately pretend to nibble on something he knows I am eventually going to get up and chase him away from if he is in the mood to be chased. In all honesty, I am totally okay with him using that to tell me he wants to be chased, and I am totally okay with obliging him. The dogs don't seem to use it to their advantage like that, at least so far..." hi Corvus i read your post with interest i have had one bunny in my life so i cant comment on any hare or bunny behaviour but i was wondering - do animals - any animals actually 'pretend' to do be doing anything in order to get its owner to do something like chase them? ( i guess dolphins and apes are smarter than we ever thought possible) i know dogs 'invit'e us to play but does a hare 'pretend to nibble at something' so you get up? i dont know how intelligent hares are so id like to learn more about this - can they work these things out or does it just look like theyre doing it on purpose... great to have a zoologist on board here! i wouldve liked to have trained as one too!

have the best time wish my friend with the growling pup could go is there one planned for central coast or sydney any time soon?

Behavourists are worth it though! 1 session may be all it takes. My dog was aggressive to the point where he would have fought anything (and he tried to!) - one session with Steve and a couple of months of hard work and Zero's 100% better! He can have another dog lunge at him and he'll just sit there and wag his tail - he even has doggie friends now and our bond has become so much stronger because of the work we've done together. I know how frustrating it can be - but it can get better. Good luck Violetmay! Bite the bullet and spend the money - you won't regret it! This is my previously dog aggressive dog (with Terranik's Jedi and Snofyre's Magnus): aww Shell that is such a great result! wow you must be so relieved and grateful you see these training advert vids and think - is that the same dog or has it been staged..lol so it's good to hear that sometimes it's only one session!

we had one like that - we were trying to teach them in the pool for their own safety we just continued to support near the belly got the idea after about 5 consecutive swims in the pool started with a dogs length from the steps and increased distance gradually the dog isnt a water baby but i reckon he could make it out of the water if he had to now he is lean too but then so was my dachshund who was a natural swimmer and loved the water - all types

feel for you violet may but you will feel better once you hand the problem over for a bit and see what can be done getting one of those swf from a pound is a noble thing indeed but you dont know what hes been through - poor mite i know maltese terriers who have never seen a pound yet are dog aggressive and some hate kids too lol so as little dogs with a fire in their belly they can be right pains to walk i dont let my kids ever walk our dogs simply because they wouldnt know how to stop a fight- im teachingthem body language and we go up to observe others at the dog parks - we dont go in unless we know all of the dogs or it's empty- a newbie comes in and we are out of there my kids have never walked the dogs on the streets either - im a paranoid mum and now with the recent spate of attempted kidnappings even my 12yr old son is spooked you still have time to rehabilitate your dog - not easy when the dog hasnt been with you since puppyhood looking to you as leader be sure youre comfortable with the behavourist -some are real salesmen and are more interested in prolonging the time as much as possible and have no real interest in results- theyll convince you of every darn problem your dog has even when there may not be one so read up as much as you can on fear aggression and ask lots of questions ask what methods are to be used remember you have to be the one who will be correcting/moulding the behaviour so you will have to copy the techniques - everything from your own voice and body stance, the way you walk, to the way you treat the dog inside your home- got to be really assertive and not tense up - hard when youre expecting violence! in the meantime, perhaps, you could teach the dog to fetch... lots of stuff on the net so google this is a good game to gain leadership and a good way for children to play with this dog and get it to focus on something if i had a biter id get a muzzle use chicken as a bribe to get the muzzle on you may need to do it a few times so the dog associates good things with the muzzling- at least there wont be a civil suit out against you if theres another incident and it will let other people see the problem immediately ( some may be unkind about you having a biter but you have to strong and ignore these - you saved this dogs life so cheap shots must not affect your goal) write down all the behaviours the dog exhibits in all different situations - from you opening an umbrella to brushing him out and tick or cross it off that way the behaviourist has something to go on and not waste time ( like you do when you go to an expenisive specialist) behaviourists arent cheap - one lady told me she was asked for 175 per session! ( get a decent human counsellor for that price lol) good luck chin up i know plenty of people with BIG dog aggressive dogs and they work their lives around them - itd be much worse if the dog was aggressive to your kids and visitors

just so depends on the dog doesnt it i have one here hes a dream once he had a bone in his mouth - got if from somewhere and brought it into the house it was his first offense with this kind of behaviour i yelled NO DROP IT and he SPAT it out so hard it literally spun across the tiles hes that kind of dog and no he doesn wee in submission or even show belly then theres my friends dog who growled at her because she shooed him away from the cat food that was high up - she took him by the collar and said a firm short no and he growled he has been growling at little things he doesnt want to do but she is using the distraction and praise method rather than confronting him head on so he goes to chew on her lounge - she uses my trick with 'will you be having tabasco with that" and it has stopped him but generally because his recall is good she can call him off without tugging at him in most situations how successful she will be - time will tell she will go to obedience and work him hard and talk to someone on the central coast about getting a professional to look at him so whether you go positive or mix it with a bit from the other school of thinking depends on the nature of your dog i think some dont need any heavy handed techniques at all look at how differently we housebreak our dogs from the old 'rub his nose in it' of the 60s and even 70s! i dont even comment on their mistakes but with some i dont even reward with a treat outside ( with some i do - the ones that are taking longer ) id try to minimise the contact your dog has with your son when hes eating ( perhaps your son could eat a snack a table and you could have your dog on a leash and do some training which involves him focussing on you while your boy is eating) then when it's trained a bit more you can challenge it a bit more- otherwise it's pretty hard to learn so much

when youre touching your dog on its hip youre reassuring it - like saying thats ok youre doing fine maybe the fact that your neighbour was letting it lick the face plus you still in contact led it to believe you needed protecting when the dog was in your lap it growled again this is common with some dogs - you know the little chihuahua that growls and snaps at a kid trying to pet it whilst the dog is in the ladys arms i think the dog probably like many of our dogs doesnt quite get that youre the leader and dont need protecting when youre allowing it to sit on you...when you have your arm around it many dogs do tolerate it but it's not something theyalways enjoy so maybe with the extra stimulation of others near you it was overwhelmed ( you know how kids are always warned not to put their arms round a dog...some are ok with it but others will see it as threatening just like having that face- to - face eye to eye position with your tipsy neighbour who probably didnt smell right either to a dog) so keep socialising it allow people to practise - hand them treats to give to your dog and praise it for responding appropriately we did this with our daughters little dog as a pup - took it everywhere and encouraged everyone to come up and pat it's a great dog - very well balanced with people and all dogs andeven though my daughter sometimes picks its up cos it cant walk as far as our others. it will happily be carried by others

ps youre right to call her off - every couple of minutes if the play gets rough -get her back and reward

could you not practise sitting quietly in the far end of the park or even outside and just make her focus on you? if she has total focus on you then by the time she is older then youll be able to call her off anyway dog parks arent great to socialise dogs anyway - you get such a mixed bunch her first experiences should be round calm dogs who wont get her going im guessing she has learned bite inhibition by now ? does she stop playing and let up when the more submissive pups yelp or look away? does she ever play fairly with these dogs or does she charge around all a-bristle? if the other dogs are running away scared hiding then theyre not enjoying it but if they run away then come charging back pouncing and inviting more then its ok the hackles arent the norm though the growling can sound savage enough but the mouth is pretty loose and they kinda airbite with the side of their jaws - the whole side of the head is down does she get up and spar and box the others like a kangaroo? or does she mostly puppypounce with the younger dogs? does she mount other dogs?- some dogs will really hate this and will bite back so that could lead to her aggression getting stirred up id keep her out of dog parks and exhaust her with lots of heeling and some off leash fun as long as her recall is good you just dont want anything coming out of the blue and wrecking her chances of being an easy dog to socialise - so many people just unclip their dogs and set them free- it's like watching them feed something to sharks sometimes get to know the dogs and maybe let her have turns when there are good role model dogs there-noone that excites her into that zone where you cant get her back again good luck

my gsd was like that hed learn continually never had another dog like him so i havent felt that satisfaction but i know what you mean !

i once helped a friend desensitise her goldie to the car we did everything as close around the car as possible - all good things were to become associated with the car so wed wait til meal times and feed her as close to it as we could we eventually over the long weekend got her hand fed sitting near the car -my colleague sat in the drivers seat and i held her leash once she got that close without baulking her sons took over and within a week she would sit in the back and have treats thats when they turned on the engine on and off expecting that that would set her off but it didnt id expect that like with any phobia youd just go about being calm and never use a reassuring voice - only praise when she is actually setting foot in the yard tame her like a wild animal and forget she is a dog - if the wolves came to the fire with a bit of coaxing then i think a grey will finally stay in the backyard good luck!