Stitch

It's the old story that doctors/vets tell you.........everyone is different! I guess it's sort of a moving target that makes it difficult. I bought the MFM Dried Green Tripe thinking I was doing the right thing. Wrong, it set my young one off. That was about 6 months ago so I won't do that again. Her father can eat anything. Offal, dog roll, dry food, BARF, etc. etc. and never get anything wrong with him. I am so hoping the faecal cultures come back with something that as been identified otherwise it is going to be a long, long road to tread.

Thanks Boronia....yes I remember Zantac is one that has been tried over the years. I will look it up and remind myself of what it does. It might be helpful for the young one or even revisiting for the old girl. Thanks Animallover, I will do a search for Organic Paws. I really appreciate all your ideas. Everything tends to get a bit overwhelming at times. It is surprising just how many dogs have gut issues. I wish there were vets that actually specialised in this problem. I know we have internal medicine specialist vets nearby because I took the old girl there several times but unless the dog is at deaths door, they are not really into solving digestive issues. I don't know why that is as I would have thought there was a real call for someone who could solve or even help with this kind of problem before it gets too bad.

You may be right about the steroids but I have had experience with them in the past. They have the potential to be a rather nasty drug and not one I want to get into unless absolutely necessary. In this case it is an option that the vet hasn't raised yet so that may still happen. I do have a 16 year old dog that is still motoring on despite having almost a lifetime of IBD so I am very familiar with gut issues.....not that they get an easier to deal with. She couldn't tolerate steroids and they caused more problems than they helped in her case but that was years ago we stopped them and so she had to take antibiotics regularly. I thought she was coming to the end a few weeks ago. She had been on long term antibiotics because of her uncontrollable gut issues. Metronidazole and sometimes combining that with Amoxyclav but she had gradually built up a resistance to them and was quite poorly so I had to stop them last week and just let nature take its course. That wasn't easy so I started to give her probiotics (Protexin) plus slippery elm plus a fibre supplement. If she gets a rumble in the gut I give her a Buscopan. I don't know how much longer she has but she is now eating well and so much happier not being on those antibiotics. At least she now has quality of life.

Nutriscan will be my next 'port of call' if the faecal sample that was taken on Wednesday doesn't show up any problems. I do need to know if there are any prepared BARF products on the market that don't include flaxseed. I might start up another topic if I can't get an answer here.

Thank you for that Boronia, I will definitely investigate that. As you say it can't hurt. Today, and I take one day at a time, poos awaited me when I got up however they weren't very soft at all, so I suppose that is an improvement. I am going to remove the rice from the diet and try sweet potato tomorrow....after all rice is a grain. Maybe it is multiple intolerances....who knows. Animallover, I did try her on MFM Salmon and Sardines dryfood....not good. Tried her on tinned tuna which she refused to eat. That's about the extent of it for now. It's a good thing I have other dogs who are happy to eat reject food from this girl. Also, forgot to say, I am now adding 1/2 teaspoon of slippery elm once daily.

7kg...what exactly have you found charcoal helps with? I can see that it might absorb gasses but it would become saturated very quickly.

I have got things to settle down a little. I am now 'serving' boiled chicken & rice laced with slippery elm & Protexin. Got her through the night a few times until I added a few veges yesterday and then got poos at 5am today so won't be doing that again. Back to just chicken and rice. Yesterday I took a sample of her poos to the vet and am getting a full spectrum report on that hopefully before the weekend. If that is clear I can then discount infections, bacteria, parasites, etc. I know that flaxseed meal and more so flaxseed oil will cause runny poos and unfortunately I have found out that the Big Dog BARF has flaxseed oil and Leading Raw BARF has flaxseed meal in it. Is there a nice palatable BARF that doesn't have flaxseed in it? Not keen on Dr.B's. Won't be doing steroids yet. Considering Nutriscan however looking at the sample results report on their site it seems like most foods caused a reaction so not sure how that works? Boronia, I thought charcoal was mainly for farts? I know that it works by absorbing pollutants when used for other purposes and am thinking that 1/2 a tablet isn't going to do much to help in this case?? Maybe I am wrong??

Yep I hear you sandgrubber. Unfortunately it isn't just soft poo, it is poo with mucus and it is happening about 4-6 times a day....and even though she is toileted at bedtimes she is also pooing overnight. Last night she went to bed at 9pm and I heard her get up at 12.30am and poo in the X-pen. I don't really care what food I feed her, the problem is finding the food that is right for her and what settles her intestines and that is not proving very easy. If she could talk it would be a lot easier.

So I am wondering if this problem may be related to the flaxseed oil or meal that seems to be added to a LOT of dogfood now. I have been feeding Prime 100 for about a week now the situation is not stabilizing. I note that Prime has flaxseed in it. She gets up at midnight and poos.

Thank you all for your kind words. Yep, I am having to take one day at a time now. The new development this week is that she is getting up at about 4am for me to let her out to do wee which doesn't look like it is urgent when she gets out. She sleeps a lot during the day but is always at my side and follows me everywhere. She has done this for years now and I am sure going to miss that. I think in her case that eating will be an indicator but I am unsure about the nausea meds. We have been twice to the vet in the last 2 weeks and it looks like I will have to take her again this week so that I know what to do with that Cerenia. It is such an expensive drug....1 tablet $8 but I can't think about that now. Would just like to have a rough plan worked out in my head.

Thank you Rebanne, can I ask how you knew when the time had come? My old girl is still able to chase away my young bitch....not very far mind you, but she still thinks she is the alpha.

My old girl, who I have been managing her IBD for many years now, is progressively getting worse. She is currently only on boiled chicken, rice, veges with calcium added plus she has to have twice daily Metronidazole tabs (which are not working like they used to), sometimes Buscopan and from this week Cerenia to combat nausea as she went off her food. Obviously all these meds are not a good but she is in her 16th year and does still have a reasonable quality of life. She is happy enough in herself, not skinny, although if she farts she can clear the room so internally things are not great and is really dependant on me giving her her medications especially the Cerenia as it does make a big difference to her. She won't eat otherwise. I am unsure as to how long I should leave her on Cerenia as it is supposed to be a short term fix. At her age it really isn't going to hurt her long term as she doesn't have much time left but when do I call it quits? The vet tends to see the situation without any emotional ties to the dog whilst not giving me any guidance as to how long I should continue with her and I am obviously emotionally involved. I don't want her to suffer but by the same token I don't want to deprive her of life that she is still enjoying and it seems to me she still has a lot of life in her. I guess I am waiting for an event that meds can't remedy, then I will know that will be the right time. Waiting and knowing what is to come is not easy but when is the right time?

Too much can go wrong very quickly to risk not giving the bitch every opportunity to either retain the pups or to overcome any infection. In this case I would definitely administer antibiotics.

You probably know this but some vets can offer a course of injections for arthritis which is quite successful in some dogs. May be better than the tabs. Unfortunately my old girl had an adverse reaction to the injections as she has a lot of allergies and so now just has to put up with her arthritis. She is beside me at the moment snoring away. When I hear that I know she needs an antihistamine tab. She has a special diet, meds morning and night...I know what is coming and I still dread that day. She is in her 16th year and I love her to bits.

Yep BBB you're right. It's not the path I wanted to be on but one that has morphed. It all started with the introduction of the dry dogfood then I thought (wrongly) that I might be able to salvage the situation by giving the VAN roll. As I said I am going back to a basic cooked mince & rice until it all settles down and then see what I can add. She really doesn't like the BARF I have been feeding her in the past and has previously only eaten a very little of it. She is also obviously not a dog that can take change. Her father on the other hand is a very easy dog that can eat anything and never gets any problems. So new plan is to wait until things settle down by feeding a bland diet of mince & rice, then try gradually adding small amounts of Prime to the mince with the hope that I can change her over to that.

So I tried her on the VAN roll a little in the morning and again at approx. 5pm. Even though she went outside to toilet after her dinner she still pooped inside before bed and again this morning. She obviously couldn't hold on. I am shaking my head here to understand what is causing this problem. By rights feeding the VAN should not have caused the gut to be so irritated. I am going to feed her some cooked mince and rice until it hopefully settles down again. I am having to micromanage this without any idea of what the underlying cause is.

Mackiemad, yes it might be the fish however Canidae wasn't fish. I wish I knew was it was about dry food that upsets her. I am wondering if it is something to do with the oil that they put in it. Flaxseed oil appears in a lot of dry food now and doesn't agree with some dogs, as does coconut oil. I agree about the samples. It would be much better if I could try a few different brands.

Jules I will freeze it, thanks for the reminder. Definitely not frozen when I bought it. Dogsfevr, it is the Eukanuba Healthy Extra dog treats not the Eukanuba dog food that is OK and that might be because I only give 1 or 2 biscuits daily......but as you say maybe it will suit. I am not a fan of Eukanuba dry dogfood but something to investigate in the future if the rolls don't work out. Maybe it is something to do with the salmon/fish in the MFM???

I have just bought a Prime Chicken & Brown Rice roll along with a VAN puppy roll. Just noticed that the VAN says use within 2-3 day of opening. That won't happen so I won't buy that one again. It has been a long time since I bought any cooked dog food rolls. I used to buy Pro Peak occasionally but this dog needs more than that I think. The explanations associated with feeding dog food either dry or wet really baffles me. You get the likes of VAN saying that dry dog food changes the pH of the gut to more alkaline and moves the food slower through the gut. I feed dry dog food to this dog and it moves at a rapid rate through the gut....therefore there must be an intolerance there, one would think? My experience is that dogs fed on BARF have smaller poos that smell of ammonia........ which would go along with the acidity theory???

I have used Leading Raw BARF for many years now. All my other dogs love it....except this one! I used to make my own using VAN but found the Leading Raw better all round. I haven't tried Prime. Is it better?

We have an ongoing love/hate relationship with dry dogfood here. Many years, different dogs, different problems. My most recent 'situation' is as follows: As a 9 wk old puppy loose, smelly poos when being fed Canidae. Changed to BARF (which I prefer) and also MFM Salmon & Sardine and poos improved but pup pooed a lot more than is usual and poos were soft. Stopped feeding MFM and any dry dogfood and problem settled down. Fast forward..... the dog is now 16 months old and BARF has never been a favourite of this dog. It has been very difficult to get her to eat BARF and keep optimum weight on her but she is of acceptable weight. This is a 7kg dog and she loses condition quickly. I have tried mixing all sorts of things with the BARF to make it more appealing but it is never enough to get her to enjoy her food or eat all that is put in front of her....she craves dry dogfood. So I caved and gave her MFM Grain Free 5 days ago and she LOVED it. I mixed it with cooked mince and she has cleaned up everything that has been given to her since but what greeted me three days ago and every morning since is the return of smelly, soft watery poo. She just can't hold on when she eats dry dogfood. I don't know if it is the fibre or the oil they put into it or maybe it is something else? She has been checked over by the vet who pronounced her very healthy. The next thing would be blood tests but I and the vet are reluctant to do that because poos are normal if not fed dry dogfood. She does get Eukanuba Healthy Extras Treats and they don't seem to cause any problems. I feed her of a morning and give a raw chicken neck of an evening. I have read the article about pH of processed foods v's BARF but I think that her pH would not be an issue in this case as this problem has occurred so quickly. By rights dogs fed a dry dogfood diet should have slow process of poos through the body. Anyone in our collective brains trust have any thoughts on this? I would really appreciate any ideas as vets are very limited in their responses to these kind of issues.

You can buy BARF (frozen) that IS balanced, and it is easy to feed....no mixing or additives necessary. A no brainer as I used to mix my own and it can get messy. I use the Big Dog brand and have found it very good. They have formulas for seniors, maintenance, puppies, etc. as well as different protein sources ie. lamb, chicken, beef, etc. The drawback with feeding many and varied protein sources is, if your dog develops allergies later on in life the vet will want you to use a 'novel' protein source and things can become difficult. Of course not all dogs will get allergies!

Everyones experiences with diet varies. I guess that's why there are so many different dog foods on the market. I have had years of tailoring diets to suit problem dogs so now I can tell very quickly what will suit a new puppy/dog best. There has to be a upside for all the clean ups I have had to do! My breed has very few health issues but some dogs can get gut issues ie. IBS, colitis & pancreatitis. Things I have learnt are: There is not one diet that suit all dogs. If your dog farts or has ongoing gut rumblings or poos that are not correctly formed then what they are eating is not agreeing with them. Although BARF is my preference, it doesn't suit all dogs so alternatives have to be found or you have to get used to the farts or many vet visits....and I hate giving dogs meds. BARF contains bone, and bone contains marrow, and marrow = fat. So if the dog suffers from gut issues BARF is not always going to be suitable to feed unless you like farty dogs with ongoing poo issues. This is because of the fat content. Flaxseed, which for some reason is finding its way into many dog foods, can also cause gut issues in some dogs. Sometimes major gut issues! Feeding dry dog food increases tartar on the teeth and bad breath. Some dogs are lactose intolerant or do a good impression of being so, and feeding yoghurt, including goat dairy products leads to soft poos and gut issues. Probiotics can only do so much but if you have a dog with gut issues probiotics should be an ongoing part of the dogs diet, ie given daily long term. You can also get a SP probiotic capsule at the chemist which works slightly differently to something like Protexin. Cooking the meat breaks it down a bit and makes it easier for the dog to digest and is therefore more soothing for the gut. Cooking for your dog is not difficult. It is just a matter of getting into a routine. There are many acceptable things that can be added to cooked meat. I am still looking for the perfect multivitamin supplement though!

I asked 'Mr Google' and found this one that I hadn't heard of previously: https://www.dig-in.com.au/go/confused-about-dog-health/ Not exactly what I am looking for but interesting.

Thanks for that, I will look into them....they are a bit pricey for what you get though. Isn't it interesting that these kind of supplements for dogs that have food/nutritional issues aren't easy to find in Australia. I would have thought that there would be more of a market for them.