Jaxx'sBuddy

Keeping these puppies alive IMO is very cruel.

They can't run and do zoomies, they can't cock their leg on a tree, they won't be able to roll over to have their belly rubbed, they are completely and totally helpless without humans.....how cruel is that.

I think it is goulish to keep them alive.

They should be given their wings to stop their suffering and because it is the right thing to do.

BM hopefully the murmur is not too bad and it causes her no problems

I had my Rotty girl given a full check up during her last two visits at my local vet. The vet said her problems were due to some arthritis in her front joint and gave her some pain killers which were to be used on her bad days.

I wasn't happy with this and took her to another vet pratice recommended to me by DOL members and was told yesterday she has cancer. I now only have her for a few days more.

RL so sorry to hear this it must be a dreadful shock to you

When I became a MDBA member I went through an approval process and because of that the MDBA will write me a reference stating that I am one of their Responsible Pet Owners.

I can use this reference if I want a puppy from a breeder who requires a reference or if I need to rent a property and need references for the dog.

Of course, should I want to buy a puppy from a MDBA breeder then they would know my credentials

so if a breeder wanted more from you, you would or wouldn't provide it? For instance, your being a MDBA member means very little to me, I'd want to know about you not just what clubs you are a member of.

A very common reference is a Club membership. Not just for getting puppy but for almost anything you might give a reference for, like getting into Uni, even some banks for home loans take Club memberships as a reference and so forth. No where did she say it was the only thing needed. Lighten up please.

I wasn't asking you, so don't tell me to lighten up. I asked a valid question. Membership of a club tells me nothing about how a person might treat/care for an animal. Lots of clubs you only have to tick the boxes and pay a fee.

The MDBA asks all members to agree to a Code of Conduct so you would know a lot more about me than someone who did not agree to a Code of Conduct.

You can view the Responsible Pet Owner Code of Conduct here http://www.mdba.net.au/component/content/article/51.html

no it's tell's me you said you would abide, not that you actually do. And it's the generic "you", not actually yourself.

I understand what you are saying. I do think that because I have said I would abide by the Code of Conduct that it gives you an idea that I take owning a dog seriously.

I think the MDBA membership is another way to show that my dogs are important to me and the same as it would when I tell you my dog has been to dog obedience to level 5.

Two different memberships that give you an insight into what I am like as a dog owner.

I would assume that you would also want to talk to me to make sure I could answer any of your questions in an adequate manner.

When I became a MDBA member I went through an approval process and because of that the MDBA will write me a reference stating that I am one of their Responsible Pet Owners.

I can use this reference if I want a puppy from a breeder who requires a reference or if I need to rent a property and need references for the dog.

Of course, should I want to buy a puppy from a MDBA breeder then they would know my credentials

so if a breeder wanted more from you, you would or wouldn't provide it? For instance, your being a MDBA member means very little to me, I'd want to know about you not just what clubs you are a member of.

A very common reference is a Club membership. Not just for getting puppy but for almost anything you might give a reference for, like getting into Uni, even some banks for home loans take Club memberships as a reference and so forth. No where did she say it was the only thing needed. Lighten up please.

I wasn't asking you, so don't tell me to lighten up. I asked a valid question. Membership of a club tells me nothing about how a person might treat/care for an animal. Lots of clubs you only have to tick the boxes and pay a fee.

The MDBA asks all members to agree to a Code of Conduct so you would know a lot more about me than someone who did not agree to a Code of Conduct.

You can view the Responsible Pet Owner Code of Conduct here http://www.mdba.net.au/component/content/article/51.html

When I became a MDBA member I went through an approval process and because of that the MDBA will write me a reference stating that I am one of their Responsible Pet Owners.

I can use this reference if I want a puppy from a breeder who requires a reference or if I need to rent a property and need references for the dog.

Of course, should I want to buy a puppy from a MDBA breeder then they would know my credentials

so if a breeder wanted more from you, you would or wouldn't provide it? For instance, your being a MDBA member means very little to me, I'd want to know about you not just what clubs you are a member of.

I would be happy to provide more it's just that this would help add to the references

When I became a MDBA member I went through an approval process and because of that the MDBA will write me a reference stating that I am one of their Responsible Pet Owners.

I can use this reference if I want a puppy from a breeder who requires a reference or if I need to rent a property and need references for the dog.

Of course, should I want to buy a puppy from a MDBA breeder then they would know my credentials

Your post (#41) is very interesting, Shortstep. So it seems that docking was not initially introduced for anything related to safety of the working dog; advantageous to the working dog; at all.

Where did that info come from?

In the UK centuries ago, the powers to be introduced a window/glass tax. So when houses were built they had tiny little windows and not many of them.

Many large country estate house owners bricked up their windows to avoid the tax.

Many things were done for specific reasons but we have often forgotten why it was done in the beginning

efs

Boston Terriers have naturally upright ears but their ears are still cropped in the USA. I don't know why they get cropped because their erect ear and the cropped ear are not much different

cropped

not cropped

No one should do a course on anything unless someone who has completed the course has recommended it.

Have you considered buying a few books on breeding - check out A mazon, or ask on here. I like Hilary Harmer's Dogs and How to Breed them, and a few others, and people will recommend others, I am sure. Much cheaper, and if you read books you like, you can then recommend them to enquirers, which take the heat off you.

Really???????

So your recommendation is to not do a course if someone hasn't recommended but go look for a nameless book on Amazon????

I named a book, and I suggested others would recommend different books.

And yes, obviously that is my recommendation. Why do you feel you have the right to question that? I would not have written it UNLESS it was my recommendation.

Do you have a problem with that? If so, why?

Others have recommended other things. Why have you not asked them the same questions?

No one else said not to do the course.

So according to your logic university students shouldn't do any courses unless they have a personal recommendation for every unit the want to do?

This is very odd and naive advice to give.

"No one else said not to do the course"

I didn't say not to do it, you might like to go back and re-read.

So, according to you, everyone has to believe the same thing, and give the same advice? If the advice from everyone is not the same, is it "odd" or "naive", or both. Is that not so? We could dispense with these forums, which have always given a balance of opnion - and have just one person answering all posts each day? Then all opinions would agree.

No, it is not odd or naive advice, it might seem odd to you, but then, I might think some things you say are odd, or stupid, or naive, or lunatic, but restrain myself from commenting, because it is a public forum, and everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I have the tolerance and good manners to allow you to have your opinions, no matter what I think of them.

You might try doing the same.

That you think Dogs & How to Breed Them is "a nameless book on Amazon" is a perfect example of your naivety and lack of knowledge

My advice was to study ONE OF THE VERY BEST BOOKS on dog breeding, and puppy raising, BY ONE OF THE MOST WELL RESPECTED BREEDERS AND JUDGES IN THE WORLD. A book which has constantly been reprinted for the past 30 years, because it is so good. Not my opinion, accepted fact.

With your minimal knowledge, I would not expect you to know anything of Hilary Harmer, but I am surprised anyone with any education would denigrate something you know nothing whatsoever about.

You have, I presume, done the MDBA course "introduction to Breeding" so you can speak with authority of it and recommend it? Would you like to share that with the forum?

The op is wondering why there should be an argument. S/he is not the only one!!!!

You haven't answered all my questions, you might like to do so.

And you might like to tell us why university students shouldn't do any courses unless they have had a personal recommendation?

What do the mdba courses and university courses have in common in your opinion?

And why you believe my advice is "odd" and "naive"?

Thanks, look forward to your response.

:) ;) :p :laugh:

In my opinion there is no course or book on earth that can beat hands on experience. If you can, find a mentor in your chosen breed that has been breeding for a long time (not an easy task but can be done) and spend as much time as you can with them. An experienced breeder has probably seen it all and their knowledge is invaluable.

I was an autodidactic for years and when I undertook Tertiary study it complemented and added to my knowledge.

In my opinion there is a place for self-learning and formal study and as both complement each other I think a mix of both brings out the best results.

No one else said not to do the course.

So according to your logic university students shouldn't do any courses unless they have a personal recommendation for every unit the want to do?

This is very odd and naive advice to give.

Can we please leave the attacks out of this and let people have their opinions without constantly having to justify themselves to you?

There was no personal attack it was a question regarding the logic of the statement.

I gave my opinion as I am allowed on a public forum just as anyone else can.

No one should do a course on anything unless someone who has completed the course has recommended it.

Have you considered buying a few books on breeding - check out A mazon, or ask on here. I like Hilary Harmer's Dogs and How to Breed them, and a few others, and people will recommend others, I am sure. Much cheaper, and if you read books you like, you can then recommend them to enquirers, which take the heat off you.

Really???????

So your recommendation is to not do a course if someone hasn't recommended but go look for a nameless book on Amazon????

I named a book, and I suggested others would recommend different books.

And yes, obviously that is my recommendation. Why do you feel you have the right to question that? I would not have written it UNLESS it was my recommendation.

Do you have a problem with that? If so, why?

Others have recommended other things. Why have you not asked them the same questions?

No one else said not to do the course.

So according to your logic university students shouldn't do any courses unless they have a personal recommendation for every unit the want to do?

This is very odd and naive advice to give.

No one should do a course on anything unless someone who has completed the course has recommended it.

Have you considered buying a few books on breeding - check out A mazon, or ask on here. I like Hilary Harmer's Dogs and How to Breed them, and a few others, and people will recommend others, I am sure. Much cheaper, and if you read books you like, you can then recommend them to enquirers, which take the heat off you.

Really???????

So your recommendation is to not do a course if someone hasn't recommended but go look for a nameless book on Amazon????

I will be there

The dog park isn't the place to socialise a timid puppy. She should have gone to puppy classes from day one, but unfortunately she's too old for that now. Maybe try setting up playdates and playgroups with dogs that you know are calm and friendly, and also get her into basic obedience class.

This is very dangerous advice for this situation.

Do NOTHING except get a behaviourist or trainer in.

If you do the wrong thing you may cause more issues.

They cant reproduce with out help stonebridge - very few of them can free whelp. You had better stop chucking stones because your glass house is shaky.

Actually I am not chucking any stones Steve.

I have no reason to.

I have merely stated my point of view based on 30 years of owning this breed.

So based on your statements about other breeders, who is to say what you are saying and doing is correct?

This is the problem with breeder bashing....who are we to believe?

stonebridge that is disingenuous of you.

Humans as a breed can procreate naturally however some can't.

Some breeds of animals cannot mate nor freely birth, this is a problem throughout the breed which makes them not fit for purpose

But breeding for the betterment of the breed can be many things to different people yet the assumption has become if you dont show you dont care how the dog looks, yet how the dog looks has changed and the show breeders are responsible for this every bit as much if not more than any BYB is.

It is the accusation that animals have been selected for extremes which has bought down the wrath of PDE.

If I breed for a couple of generations and select for one thing which I believe is in the breed's best interest and - say I bring down the incidence of what is a high rate of C sections in the breed, or if I select for a couple of generations for nothing else except DNA cleared dogs of a certain known genetic disease in that breed why would a breeder who breeds for what they feel is for the betterment of the breed - champions - assume that what they do is more important or more valid for the betterment of the breed than someone who breeds for different goals? Why is it assumed one doesnt have the same motivation as the other - what is best for the breed and what is best for the dogs? Why do we have to beat hell out of each other and not respect what each does and work together?

No group can happily go along bagging out any other or any breeder in particular because you cant assume what or why they breed dogs or that you are the only ones who can get it right - that your goals are the only ones which are valid especially when there are a hell of a lot of the other groups yelling about how you get it more wrong than they do.

example x 2

Wheatens have the most horrible genetic disease and any one who can work out how to rub it out is going to be doing whats best for the breed way over and above anyone who breeds 1000 champion Wheatens. Cavs have high incidence of heart valve disease - those breeders who can eliminate this from their breeding dogs and make them available for other breeders to use and improve the health of the breed is a hero in my opinion and I dont care whether they show or not or if they make a million bucks off selling their puppies to pet homes.

I would hope that breeders are not just selecting ONE thing to improve on in their breeding programme, for it is fearful that they will definetely lose sight of other aspects that are just as important. For example. a British Bulldog breeder who has decided that they must have free whelping bitches. With incoprorating solely that in their breeding programme they may lose sight of other important aspects in what makes the Bulldog unique. I am not saying that free whelping shouldnt happen. But to lose sight of what makes the Bulldog a Bulldog just because THEY want a free whelper is wrong. There is more to it than just this. This is just a drop in the ocean and I am not going into the Bulldog breed in depth on this thread.

I have seen some changes in some Bulldog breeders programmes in the last 30 years that have simply made me cry. Because in alot of cases it is all about the mighty dollar.

In my post I said I would have more respect for those breeders who produce a good healthy show quality dog. I didnt say that the dog had to make it to the show ring.

Many of our puppy people have never shown their dogs, but structually they(the dogs) are sound and healthy.

I care whether people breed for the sake of the breed or if they breed to line their pockets. Maybe that is because I am old school and am not money hungry. In this day and age am I in the minority?

Surely a free whelping bitch is better for the breed.

Maybe I have misunderstood but are you saying free whelping bitches are not a priority in a breed?

I find it very concerning that some breeds need human intervention in order to procreate. that means if humans are not around the breed becomes extinct and I also think this gives animal rights people ammunition/

British Bulldogs today look a lot different than when the breed was first around so who is to say this modern shape is better for the breed than the original shape?

I do not want to talk about a breed I know little about.

But any breed of dog or any animal for that matter, that can not free whelp due to anotomical extremes is not fit for function and this needs to be change. If these anotomical extremes are what makes the dogs look like that breed, then a total reshuffle of this breed needs to happen, something has gone very far off track.

My thoughts exactly.

But breeding for the betterment of the breed can be many things to different people yet the assumption has become if you dont show you dont care how the dog looks, yet how the dog looks has changed and the show breeders are responsible for this every bit as much if not more than any BYB is.

It is the accusation that animals have been selected for extremes which has bought down the wrath of PDE.

If I breed for a couple of generations and select for one thing which I believe is in the breed's best interest and - say I bring down the incidence of what is a high rate of C sections in the breed, or if I select for a couple of generations for nothing else except DNA cleared dogs of a certain known genetic disease in that breed why would a breeder who breeds for what they feel is for the betterment of the breed - champions - assume that what they do is more important or more valid for the betterment of the breed than someone who breeds for different goals? Why is it assumed one doesnt have the same motivation as the other - what is best for the breed and what is best for the dogs? Why do we have to beat hell out of each other and not respect what each does and work together?

No group can happily go along bagging out any other or any breeder in particular because you cant assume what or why they breed dogs or that you are the only ones who can get it right - that your goals are the only ones which are valid especially when there are a hell of a lot of the other groups yelling about how you get it more wrong than they do.

example x 2

Wheatens have the most horrible genetic disease and any one who can work out how to rub it out is going to be doing whats best for the breed way over and above anyone who breeds 1000 champion Wheatens. Cavs have high incidence of heart valve disease - those breeders who can eliminate this from their breeding dogs and make them available for other breeders to use and improve the health of the breed is a hero in my opinion and I dont care whether they show or not or if they make a million bucks off selling their puppies to pet homes.

I would hope that breeders are not just selecting ONE thing to improve on in their breeding programme, for it is fearful that they will definetely lose sight of other aspects that are just as important. For example. a British Bulldog breeder who has decided that they must have free whelping bitches. With incoprorating solely that in their breeding programme they may lose sight of other important aspects in what makes the Bulldog unique. I am not saying that free whelping shouldnt happen. But to lose sight of what makes the Bulldog a Bulldog just because THEY want a free whelper is wrong. There is more to it than just this. This is just a drop in the ocean and I am not going into the Bulldog breed in depth on this thread.

I have seen some changes in some Bulldog breeders programmes in the last 30 years that have simply made me cry. Because in alot of cases it is all about the mighty dollar.

In my post I said I would have more respect for those breeders who produce a good healthy show quality dog. I didnt say that the dog had to make it to the show ring.

Many of our puppy people have never shown their dogs, but structually they(the dogs) are sound and healthy.

I care whether people breed for the sake of the breed or if they breed to line their pockets. Maybe that is because I am old school and am not money hungry. In this day and age am I in the minority?

Surely a free whelping bitch is better for the breed.

Maybe I have misunderstood but are you saying free whelping bitches are not a priority in a breed?

I find it very concerning that some breeds need human intervention in order to procreate. that means if humans are not around the breed becomes extinct and I also think this gives animal rights people ammunition/

British Bulldogs today look a lot different than when the breed was first around so who is to say this modern shape is better for the breed than the original shape?

The story is inconsistent, first it says the boy went to pat the dog, and then it says the dog ran at him. So which is it, did the boy go over to a dog he didn't know so the dog felt threatened, or did the dog run up to the boy unprovoked?

I never trust news stories where a dog has attacked a child, more often than not the child has done something to provoke the dog.

Who cares. Seriosuly - the kid ended up in hospital. That is just not on. The other kid ended up dead. And before you ask - I had a dog who went for a child in an unprovoked attack. I loved that dog but I had him put down immediately. If I had a gun at the time, I would have shot him.

Totally agree. The dog wouldn't have drawn another breath and there is nothing a child could do could do that warrants the dog attacking them, simply nothing.

Thumbs up poodlefan. Find it odd that a pound would rehome an unsterilised dog though. And why was an unsterilised male with a bitch in season?

Not all pounds desex before rehoming.

I can think of one logical reason the dog was running with an in season bitch .... perpetuating its genes. Oh goody.

Yes, my thoughts exactly. The in heat bitch was left unattended with an entire male.

I don't care how many reasons you give for this dog's behaviour.

The dog attacked someone trying to catch it and its bite amputated another man's fingers. That to me indicates an absence of bite inhibition that make this dog unsuitable to be in any community.

You have to think beyond your understanding of the dog and deal with the possible consequences of any further escapes. The dog is dangerous to strangers.

Nothing you do will change that.

So, I'll repeat this again: Any dog that feels threatened or feels he/she is being attacked will fight back. It's the way dogs are.

Bullshit. Most will retreat. The threshold at which a dog 'fights back" and the damage it does vary widely. Most dogs snap or don't bite down when defending. This dog was at the extreme end of the scale. Oh and by the way freezing is regarded by many dog professionals as precursor to serious acts of aggression. Its red flag behavour that sadly isn't recognised as such by many folk. I don't think they should pay with surgery and loss of appendages for their mistake but that's just me.

On this forum we often wonder about the background of such dogs. Perhaps you could shed some light?

How old was dog?

Did it atttend any puppy or training schools to be socialised outside of its family?

Was it desexed?

Was it allowed inside?

Fair enough, blast me with your opinion, oh Dog expert. After the stupidity of the last 'dog expert' that deemed him dangerous, I rarely take into consideration what any acclaimed 'dog expert' has to say. Including you.

Your opinion is like everyone elses - an opinion.

"most dogs snap or don't bind down when defending" - bear in mind that he did bite the first man. When the second man came to 'confront' the dog (i'll put it nicely), that's when things got bad. And where are your statistics for this? Are they YOUR statistics, or are they taken off a website? Is your opinion based on what you've heard?

HOWEVER, it is the victims' word against the dogs' word. They could have been shooing them away, or throwing sticks at them to scare them for all we know - but unfortunately dogs are unable to share their side of the story.

All I have to say to you is that this dog was bought from the pound because his owner could not afford to look after him.

We took him in and gave him a loving home.

He had access inside and outside at all times. If no one was home, he had big, open and cool downstairs area/garage to rest in.

He was not desexed and you can call us horrible, bad owners all you like. I couldn't care what you thought.

He didn't attend puppy schools because when we got him, he was not a puppy. Young, but no puppy.

He was socialised quite often with other dogs.

When we flew in Marley (a puppy at the time) from the eastern states, they were fantastic with each other.

So you can throw your opinions and views around all you like - but you do not know the dog.

You cannot know the mentality of every dog. You cannot claim that MOST dogs would flee.

This dog is not MOST dogs. It is A dog. A unique dog, just like every f***ing dog is unique.

As for him being dangerous to strangers? We've had many friends come over that he had not known. Not once did he bite.

He did not bite the rangers when they dragged him away.

He did not bite anyone after he was stuck in a cage for months which, as you MUST agree, would be very detrimental to his mentality.

It seems you need to think beyond your understanding of all dogs.

Do not expect any support when you are so aggressive with your posts.

you are doing your cause no favours

ETA

This is a PUBLIC forum. anyone can read it so how is your attitude going to change the minds of people?

If you behaved and talked to the ranger the way you have written your posts maybe you contributed to the problem you are facing

Exactly why I am suggesting the humans who re-home pound dogs take responsibility for ensuring the dogs they re-home have appropriate temperaments.

Humans can be really danderous too, and It's about time they were made resposible on their actions also

JB that's all very well and good, but dogs have been known to temp test fine while they're In pound environment only to show their true colors after in a new home environment!

So what then ? I'm also not sure on whether all pounds actually temp test all their dogs, surely It Is owner resposibility too, pounds can only do so much imo

A pound doesn't vet the people buying the dogs and they should. A dog can be very dangerous and it's about time pounds were made responsible for what dogs the re-home.

My Lhasa Apso (not purebred) died recently at 17. In her lifetime, I had a baby, got divorced, remarried, re-entered the workforce, saw three kids to adulthood, bought, lived in and sold a few houses, changed careers, changed lifestyles.

That's a LOT in one dogs lifetime, and it went by in the blink of an eye. My current dogs, if going by the breed average.....are likely to live to 12-14. Benson is already 4, where did those 4 years go? It seems like only yesterday he was a ball of black and tan fluff, now he's all grown up, gorgeous and sensible. That could be one third of his life already passed.

To be able to choose dogs that are genetically disposed to live long and healthy lives would be wonderful. I would love to own one or two of the bigger breeds but won't because of their inherently short lifespan. I couldn't fathom a dog being old at 8, that should be the prime of their life.

Gayle that is exactly what I think.