Quickasyoucan

Calling people fanatics isn't very nice But hey if being passionate about the reputation of bull breeds and seeing that they are in appropriate homes makes me a fanatic so be it. My stafford x would chase unknown cats if he got a chance, tho he has happily temporarily spent time in a house with an ancient dominant cat and definitely was the underdog there. I think a lot of dogs with a reasonable level of drive would chase cats, not all but a lot, not all would kill them tho. My boy has a good degree of prey drive, but towards mechanical items in that he used to try and chase skateboards. I perceived that as a problem early, since skateboards are usually ridden by humans. Nothing had actually happened, he has never actually hurt anyone. However, there was potential there for something to go wrong, ie he could have knocked a child off a skateboard in his desire to get to the wheels (which are the object of his desire), so it was my responsibility to get professional help, we consulted a behaviourist and it worked I didn't see that as overkill, I saw that as being a responsible owner. We also got guidance on how to find a proper outlet for his drive. I like that he has drive, but I have learned how to use it for my own ends. ;) I think people are just concerned, not fanatical, that this dog finds its way into a home that is capable of dealing with the level of drive the dog has. Working people love dogs with drive, it is not necessarily a bad thign, just like a powerful car needs to be handled properly.

I personally think sometimes people get obedience and behaviour mixed up. Not saying this is the case here, but I have met a fair few obedience dogs that have tried to take chunks out of my own dog. Obedience and agility champion does not necessarily a good canine citizen make. This does definitely sounds like it needs to be assessed by a behaviourist, not a trainer, a behaviourist PRIOR to it being placed in any new home. I have a friend with a very high prey drive stafford mix and she has worked very, very hard with a behaviourist to improve on leash behaviour. She has only just moved from getting up around 4.30 am to walk the dog to avoid meeting other people and animals. However, this dog will NEVER be allowed in an off leash situation with other dogs and his owner has adult children and is committed to ensuring that this dog does not put other people's pets in harms way. She still worries though. Could you honestly in good conscience rehome a dog to a family with this level of prey drive without a professional opinion? Are you prepared to deal with the consequences if the dog attacks and kills someone else's pet, both for the family you have rehomed him to, the dog and yourself? Many councils take a very dim few of out of control prey drive, also you don't want to be setting this family up for legal action against them by someone who has lost their beloved pet, not to mention giving fuel to the anti-bull breed brigade's fire.

I hate the idea of animals being used for experiments for non-necessary things like cosmetics, but we are talking about a whole different thing here. My dog recently had a cruciate op at the University of Sydney Teaching hospital and they have been absolutely fantastic. The reason I mention this is one of the reasons I chose them is precisely because they ARE a teaching hospital. Every visit we had we had vet students take a history and then they presented to the specialist who did his own examination. A bit like if you ever go to hospital and get seen by a resident first. One of the registrars did say to me that some people don't like to have to see the vet students first, but I think it is so important that vet students get supervised access to live animals and live owners too!!! :D Didn't bother me at all that consults were a bit longer and in fact meant things were explained really clearly to me. I am sure that my boy had a whole host of students standing round the operating table and they were involved in after care as well. My boy got top rate surgery and after care (his recovery has been amazing) and students got to learn at the same time. Now I know that is not non-recovery surgery but I like the fact that his successful operation has had a dual benefit. ;) The dogs are in the pound because of other people's lack of care, seems a shame to put the blame on people working for the good of animals.

Yes me, as per previous post in the other topic, sorry don't normally come on here at weekends!

No it doesnt matter where you live. For now all we want to do is identify what we can do and what we need to do to put that into action. No one will expect you to do anything you're not comfortable with. Steve it is something I am interested in but my real bugbear is responsible dog ownership. Is that something you are going to do a working group on?

More rangers to implement the laws we already have, and/or to place articles in local newspapers, give community talks etc? But then it comes down to council allocated money. Hard question. Will ponder a bit more. Agreed. Warringah Council recently held a Responsible Pet Owner night and had Kirsti Seksel as a speaker (well I remember it was someone I had heard of and I am pretty sure it was her). I thought that was definitely as step in the right direction. As I have said before, I think we could go a long way by just seeing basic leash, microchipping laws enforced. It shouldn't be up to responsible owners to have to cop abuse when they tell people to put their dog on a lead.

I just found this on the AVMA website: What are some of the problems associated with microchips? How common are they? A: The British Small Animal Veterinary Association (BSAVA) maintains a database of adverse reactions to microchips. Since the database was started in 1996, over 4 million animals have been microchipped and only 391 adverse reactions have been reported. Of these reactions, migration of the microchip from its original implantation site is the most common problem reported. Other problems, such as failure of the microchip, hair loss, infection, swelling, and tumor formation, were reported in much lower numbers. For a chart summarizing the BSAVA reports, read the AVMA's backgrounder on Microchipping of Animals. Q: I've heard a lot lately that microchips cause cancer. Do they? A: There have been reports that mice and rats developed cancer associated with implanted microchips. However, the majority of these mice and rats were being used for cancer studies when the tumors were found, and the rat and mice strains used in the studies are known to be more likely to develop cancer. Tumors associated with microchips in two dogs were reported, but in at least one of these dogs the tumor could not be directly linked to the microchip itself (and may have been caused by something else). For more details on the studies, read the AVMA's backgrounder on Microchipping of Animals. Q: I don't want my pet to get cancer. Should I have my pet's microchip removed? A: We do not recommend that you have your pet's microchip removed, for two reasons. First, based on our review of the studies, the risk that your animal will develop cancer due to its microchip is very, very low, and is far outweighed by the improved likelihood that you will get your animal back if it becomes lost. Second, although implanting a microchip is a very simple and quick procedure, removing one is more involved and may require general anesthesia and surgery. Bolding is mine. I think the odds of your pet being lost v the odds of them developing cancer from this source are worth it for me. I mean where do you drawn the line. Everything has risk. There is a risk that when your dog has an anaesthetic for say teeth cleaning, it may not survive, but there is also a risk that if bad dental disease is allowed to progress that could cause systemic infection. I think you just have to weigh both up. I mean there is a risk that every time I get in my car or on a plane there may be a crash but the odds are good enough and the benefits for me to do it.

Just FYI Erny has started a thread about this in Health. There are some good responses. The microchipping cancer thing I mean.

Ive done my share in working with child abuse anyway. Right here and right now we have a task and its about stopping animal abuse and making the future better for our dogs so being concerned about what else in society which is rotten will or will not continue isnt our job in this regard. We all know there will always be idiots who remain on the edge - our job is to find solutions which dont include law changes which bring us as close as possible for the perfect world we envisage for us and our animals. It can be done. There is no such thing as a problem without a solution and as we work together, discuss , debate and participate the solution will come.

Puppy Sniffer I think you might have been referring to me about saying that human abuse and dog abuse are different things. I probably didn't make it clear, but that's not what I meant, what I meant is that here we are talking about animals, and that to say if we can't sort out human abuse then what hope have we in sorting out animal abuse is kind of self-defeating. I am aware that when there is a situation of a child at risk there are often (but not always) other types of abuse present, for example drug abuse, so I certainly don't discount that could include neglect of animals, after all as I said earlier I think dog dumpage can have links to socio-economic issues. I am sure the people who work in child protection still believe there is some hope as otherwise they wouldn't keep trying, I guess I was saying I think the same should be applied to animals. Sorry this is not practical suggestions but I just wanted to clarify.

Slightly off topic but on the subject of Staranais' first paragraph when I was looking at TPLO on the internet there were a couple of posts about osteosarcoma at the site of plates. I asked my specialist vet about pre-op it thinking he would say that was a myth but apparently the early plates tended to rust (not the right word but you get what I mean) releasing carcinogens and there were cases. He assured me that the plate that they put in my boy is now made at the same place they make plates for human ops and is much safer. We did have to wait for it to be delivered from Switzerland - its a European spare part I guess you can never say never though, if you start putting artificial things in the body how do you know how the body will react in each individual case. I also would rather have my dog microchipped than not.

I agree with the above and have bolded the bit above because I think that a lot of people (myself included at times) tend to be a bit disheartened by that, plus you get statements about how humans don't even look after kids etc, but we are not talking about children here so I don't think the comparison is necessary of benefit. What's more I don't think that is a reason to stop trying regarding dog dumpage. For example I would bet that drink driving campaigns mean that a lot less people drink and drive than used to 20 years ago. Of course there are still many idiots who do - you cannot expect to change everyone, but for every one person whose attitude changes that is a positive step forward. I think a lot of us try to do our bit by educating people at work who are thinking of buying dogs, helping out friends and family members and generally pushing responsible dog ownership, but I for one would be happy to be part of something more coordinated.

But I wouldn't classify the last one as dumping, I would classify that as hardship, and in the event, there ought to be a hardship fund of some sort (I know PACERs often is called in to step in in these cases) or at the very least some sort of rehoming service. No-one can definitively say that they won't be affected by a life changing event that makes them unable to keep a pet. But this situation is miles away from teh top ten of dumping reasons such as: I had a human kid and I don't want the dog anymore. I am going on an extended holiday. I don't have time for the dog any more. etc etc These are people's choices that lead them to dump a dog, not hardship that has been forced upon them. Having read the $30,000 fine thing above, I think that should be part of a national RSPCA television campaign, make people aware of the law (especially in the lead up to xmas). ETA: I would be personally happy to go round enforcing existing microchipping laws, if such a job existed. Makes it so much easier to be unaccountable if the dog is not identifiable as belonging to someone. Same as enforcing leash laws, they are so basic and yet they are not enforced.

But I wouldn't classify the last one as dumping, I would classify that as hardship, and in the event, there ought to be a hardship fund of some sort (I know PACERs often is called in to step in in these cases) or at the very least some sort of rehoming service. No-one can definitively say that they won't be affected by a life changing event that makes them unable to keep a pet. But this situation is miles away from teh top ten of dumping reasons such as: I had a human kid and I don't want the dog anymore. I am going on an extended holiday. I don't have time for the dog any more. etc etc These are people's choices that lead them to dump a dog, not hardship that has been forced upon them. Having read the $30,000 fine thing above, I think that should be part of a national RSPCA television campaign, make people aware of the law (especially in the lead up to xmas).

No new laws. Are we allowing better enforcement of existing laws eg microchipping. Hard not to be accountable when your name and current address is on the chip.

Many dog clubs are adapting their programs to cater for this. I know the Canberra ones have. Why is Canberra so sensible compared to the rest of Australia You really want me to answer that? Between you, me and the gate post I think education levels (ACT has highest in Australia) have a bit to do with it but I expect the issue is more far more complex than that. I agree with that to an extent though I have met a few highly educated people who have some pretty old school view on dog ownership... There was a person on the radio this morning talking about bad behaviour in kids and saying it was a socio-economic thing. To an extent I believe that there would be link between dog dumpage and socio-economic conditions and status. I also believe the same for dog bites (as i have said before). I don't think this is all encompassing, as I have said above, dumping dogs is not the preserve of the poor or uneducated, but I bet if you did stats you would find dumpage rates were higher in areas like Blacktown. ETA: my sister tells me that in my home in the UK they pay people on one council estate to attend dog training classes with their dogs.

Many dog clubs are adapting their programs to cater for this. I know the Canberra ones have. Why is Canberra so sensible compared to the rest of Australia Sorry that's not very helpful. I agree with RSG we need to find who to target. I think also there is still this view that dogs are disposable, don't like the one you have, well get rid of it and get another. People definitely need educating. A friend of mine found 2 stray poodle xs wandering near her place over the weekend. Finally managed to get in contact with the owners and they apparenltly live only a few doors down across the road. The owner says they keep digging the yard up and getting out. My friend says how much exercise do they get - dogs are 9 months and 12 months old. Owners says we don't have the time to walk them we work full time and have 3 kids. That story is either going to end on the main road or at the pound. People need to be made aware of the commitment of buying dogs, they need to buy dogs that are suited to their needs or not buy dogs at all if they really cannot afford even basic vet bills (and how many times to people come on here and say they can't afford something relatively small), do not have the time to exercise and provide basic obedience. Maybe there should be some sort of "product disclosure statement" that is given to every potential puppy buyer so that they are clearly made aware of what the requirements are.

My stafford x is my first short coated breed (we had welsh springers as a family) and I love the fact that is he lies in mud it doesn't matter. That said, the mud did used to fall off our welsh springers once it had dried. I take my hat off to anyone with a 'non-shedding' breed who keeps it in good condition as you see an awful lot of dogs in pounds and on the streets with mats, gooby eyes etc.

Completely Off topic but: I had a pet dwarf rabbit with mal-occluded teeth, they used to just grow and grow. Vet clipped them back the first 2 times for us and then my dad used to do it every time they started to look too long. Rabbit got used to having it done. Not suggesting this should be done with a dog as obviously his teeth situation is completely different, but just to say these things happen with pets. That rabbit lived a long and healthy life and died of old age.

I don't know about the others but I'd say welsh springers definitely need a reasonably amount of exercise or they are likely to get up to mischief. We had them growing up and dad had one now, he has three off leash walks a day and could take more. I'd think anything with a working background you would want to steer clear of if you were looking for medium energy, then again there are always exceptions within a breed.

As and when I look for a breeder in the future, I would definitely be looking at personal recommendations. I also agree with joining a breed club, going to a show and chatting to people, not just emailing. I would also want to be sure that they knew the basic things about health issues and testing in their breed and that they wanted to ask me questions about what sort of owner I was likely to be. Off topic but it never ceased to amaze me that when I was looking for a house the real estate agents (who would be pocketing a big cheque by selling the house) often didn't bother to gen up on the most basic things like rates, public transport, whether it was strata or torrens title etc. If I met the equivalent lack of knowledge in a breeder I would be steering clear. My sister recently purchased a HWV puppy in the UK. As they have school age children they purposely went for someone who had children of their own, who raised dogs in the home, who was happy to have them visit before the mating had even taken place and to meet their dogs etc. This breeder was happy to answer questions and was open and upfront when one of their adult dogs caught kennel cough just before the puppies were due to go to new homes, giving the puppy buyers the options of delaying pickup etc. Knowledge and honesty are big in my books...

There is a show on Foxtel called something like My dog ate what... The things dogs eat on there are unbelievable, one dog ate an envelope with 800 worth of dollar bills in it and started vomiting up dollar notes like an atm. They gave it an injection and recovered the full amount! There was a British Bulldog that was mildly ill in a family with triplet sons. They did an x-ray, opened him up and discovered 30 rubber pacifiers inside him!!! Apparently they now count up all pacifiers every night to make sure none are missing. Heard a scary story when I was at the vet from a customer who was paying the same time as me. She said her dog ate a tampon and the string basically dissected its intestines. Cost her $7,900 and the dog nearly died. :D My friends staffords have eaten both their leather collars and a bra. There is a lab up the park that has eaten over 20 nappies. Cannot understand why after the first time the owners are not more careful.

I feel sorry for the breeds on that list - now they'll be targetted by buyers who think that getting the right breed means they don't have to supervise or control their kiddies That in turn will lead to BYBers cashing in on the breeds to sell as "ideal family pets" regardless of the temperament of their breeding dogs. That's how the Golden Retriever has made it up to top of the list of dog bite stats in Canada. For the record, I not rate a Toy Poodle as a good pick for someone with kids under school age. As pups they are too frail for the rough and tumble of life with young kids. i'd think chi's would be a bit small for very young kids too.

Trouble is that so many of the 'authority'-type documents about dogs, ask people to nominate Primary Breed & Secondary Breed. They don't record the dog simply as Mixed Breed. So someone who usually hasn't a clue about the dog's origins, nominates Cattle Dog for Primary Breed and maybe Border Collie for Secondary Breed. (And that can be an owner as much as a victim or a witness.) It must be some lame way the authorities hope to get some kind of 'visual' of the dog. But when these dogs are pulled out of the data base, they're described as whatever was given for the Primary Breed. Like, Cattle Dog. In one fell swoop, a mixed-breed dog (of indeterminate origins) is turned into a purebred. If only dogs that are Mixed Breed were recorded simply as that....interesting to see the stats for being involved in dog bites. Or if pure breeds, with documented pedigree papers, were described/listed as such....like Australian Cattle Dog/P. Then stats collected on how many of these were involved in serious bites/attacks. Good support from the US Government's Centres for Disease Control (CDC) & the American Veterinary Medicine Association AVMA): The CDC has never issued a report or press release naming "the types of dogs most likely to bite," nor has the CDC ever released a list of dogs they consider "highest risk." From the CDC: "There is currently no accurate way to identify the number of dogs of a particular breed, and consequently no measure to determine which breeds are more likely to bite or kill." From the AVMA: "There are several reasons why it is not possible to calculate a bite rate for a breed or to compare rates between breeds. First, the breed of the biting dog may not be accurately recorded, and mixed-breed dogs are commonly described as if they were purebreds. Second, the actual number of bites that occur in a community is not known, especially if they did not result in serious injury. Third, the number of dogs of a particular breed or combination of breeds in a community is not known, because it is rare for all dogs in a community to be licensed, and existing licensing data is then incomplete. [source: AVMA Task Force on Canine Aggression] Yep so Burke's "more truthful statistical method" is to use the number of purebred registrations and the number of unverifiable and potentially unreliable breed identifications that were made at the time of the bites and put those together to get a result. :D My dog is very definitely at cross breed, but every person I see calls him a "staffy". No doubt he would be listed as a staffordshire bull terrier if he was ever part of any DLG report but he is not. In fact according to BITSA (yep I know not necessarily reliable) he is more border collie than stafford but he just looks more like a bull breed. Actually I must be stuffed because I have a mixture of 2 dogs on the top 10 list.

Absolutely agree! In my experience, the boys tend to be more bluff and bluster. They like to be loud and visibly appear aggressive, but in many cases (not all, but MANY) it is just for show. Like idiots at a pub, lots of chest and shoulder action and noise to see if one will actually back down before things get too advanced. Not so with bitches who, in my experience, are sneaky and nasty and sly and LIGHTNING fast with very little actual noise to warn you. The boys seem to niggle a lot first, the bitches just get into it...hard and fast!! So true, sounds like my boy in the couple of scuffles he had at the dog park when young. Also as soon as it stopped he used to lose interest in the other dog couldn't care less whether he was still there or not. Pretty much all talk and no action. Had a foster bitch once though and she bullied my boy from day one she was so much more intense in the way she did it as well.