Souff

... If I own an Australasian Bogdog for example ....

ahem!

Australasian Bosdog please ;)

Some of Australia's oldest dog breeds have been left out in the cold in Victoria, but are treated much better in other states.

Souff

Lets not condemn Dogs Vic for lobbying for its members. Expand the membership and they can lobby for that too. Has anyone approached Dogsvic to see if they will open the Working Register to entire dogs? To open a register for "breeds in development" or FCI recognised breeds not yet recognised in their country of origin. The ANKC is not the bad guy here.

Telida, the steamroller approach of governments only wanting to deal with "peak bodies" is what is really at fault here.

It is at the root of the problem and it deserves the attention of constitutional lawyers.

re Breeds in Development - unless the rules have changed about getting a breed recognised by ANKC, you can be pretty sure that the ANKC don't want to invite more breeds to the ANKC party.

From memory, breeds in development required something like 500 entire breeding dogs before they could apply.

All alive and kicking.

In a country that has probably got the highest rate of de-sexing dogs and where councils basically don't want people to have dogs and where the numbers of people still interested in breeding dogs are dropping like flies.

Souff

No, ANKC is not the only dog registry. However its the only one that's succeeded in lobbying for its members to be recognised in legislation at this point in time. Given the choice between joining the poncy show mob for at least the shorter term or shooting my dogs, I'd say the choice is fairly simple. Wouldn't you?

And as for submitting one' self to the "big stick" of a CC's control. All I can say is What control?

It is not a question of submitting to the big stick of CC control.

If you looked into the regulations of the independent breed registries you will find that the codes are just as strict, and are policed.

As far as the ANKC being able to have more sway with government, yes, this is true.

And just look at the result they have achieved in Victoria.

The puppy farms and the crossbreeding will continue.

Some of Australia's oldest dog breeds have been left out in the cold in Victoria, but are treated much better in other states.

Souff

Dogs Victoria will only issue breeding prefixes to breeders of ANKC recognised breeds.

Fine for Australian Kelpies - but what about the other non-recognised breeds in Victoria?

http://www.dogsvictoria.org.au/Portals/0/assets/aboutUs/Regulations%2015.11.11.pdf

4.2 PREFIXES

4.2.1 Management Committee shall keep and maintain a register of prefixes.[/b] A prefix registered by a member

may only be used in respect of a breed of dog recognised by the ANKC.

As Steve indicated, good breeders of other purebred dog breeds that ANKC have not recognised are now treated like criminals in Victoria if they want to continue breeding their dogs in Victoria.

ANKC is not the only dog registry for purebred dog breeds.

Souff

Yes, you can only use the prefix for registered litters.. where does it say that you can't breed other non ANKC registered dogs dogs WITHOUT using the prefix??

Decent breeders of purebred dogs use a kennel prefix for their dogs.

What use is a dog's pedigree without a kennel prefix - the primary identifier of bloodlines?

This is Vic's more shady establishments ... not the place Animal Lib can go and raid

Gee, that is a shame.

I can think of a few people who would have given them a lift to the front gate - they might have had to find their own way home though.

Steve:

The Victorian government has given Vicdogs a monopoly and people who choose not to be Vicdogs members or who cant be Vicdogs members are disadvantaged and treated as criminals.

They should join Vicdogs to receive protection under the laws. There are no restrictions on what Vicdog members breed beyond not crossing registered purebreds. Technically a VICDOGs member could breed as many working Kelpies or crossbred dogs etc as they want without breaching the code of ethics.

Pretty quick fix IMO. And not wildly expensive.

Telida, your idea is actually flawed. It is not a quick fix at all.

Dogs Victoria will only issue breeding prefixes to breeders of ANKC recognised breeds.

Fine for Australian Kelpies - but what about the other non-recognised breeds in Victoria?

http://www.dogsvictoria.org.au/Portals/0/assets/aboutUs/Regulations%2015.11.11.pdf

4.2 PREFIXES

4.2.1 Management Committee shall keep and maintain a register of prefixes. A prefix registered by a member

may only be used in respect of a breed of dog recognised by the ANKC.

As Steve indicated, good breeders of other purebred dog breeds that ANKC have not recognised are now treated like criminals in Victoria if they want to continue breeding their dogs in Victoria.

ANKC is not the only dog registry for purebred dog breeds.

Souff

There are no restrictions on what Vicdog members breed beyond not crossing registered purebreds. Technically a VICDOGs member could breed as many working Kelpies or crossbred dogs etc as they want without breaching the code of ethics.

Telida,

Would you give an iron-clad guarantee that the board of VicDogs could not change that situation at a board meeting and make it mandatory that all dogs bred by their members must be purebred ANKC dogs only?

I couldn't.

You see, the principles of fair trade have been trampled on by the combined weight of the largest dog registry in Victoria and the Victorian Government.

Who stands to gain here?

The breeders of good dogs who are doing the right thing by their dogs - which have pedigrees that are locked into independent registries?

Or the Dogs Victoria bank account?

This legislation needs a serious re-vamp, and soon.

This is Australia - the land of freedoms and choices - or it used to be.

There is nothing as prohibitive as Victoria's legislation in any of the other states, and one must ask why.

Is it of greater benefit to Victorian dogs? No.

Will it eliminate puppy farms? No.

Will it ensure a greater income stream to councils and vets? Yes.

Will it ensure a greater income stream to Dogs Victoria. Yes.

Sure, it is easy to simply shut up and pay up and join Dogs Victoria.

Definitely one for the shame file.

Souff

Healing hugs for Chucky

Yes I agree...but these are members of our community now....are we to have one rule for them and one for us? As Steve said it will be interesting to see how this particualar event goes.

Yes, members of our community now.

And they will find no shortage of different types of meat to eat in this community; meat that has been legally butchered in proper conditions and to proper standards.

What happens in their country of origin STAYS in their country of origin - when it comes to eating dogs.

Dogs are not an animal that are bred in this country as a source of nutrition for humans or other animals, and this needs to be clearly communicated to any newcomers.

I am all for enjoying the benefits of multiculturism - but not the barbarism, thank you.

Souff

Apparently in Korea they farm and eat dog regular....to them dog is no different to us eating cows...which are sacred in Asia so whats the difference....we are a multi cultural nation.

The difference is the varying standards and attitudes pushed down our neck in recent years.

Breeders are deemed to be "mutilating" an animal if we were to dock a pup's tail in the traditional way and we will be carted off to court and convicted if we do this in Australia.

We are frowned on by many for another so-called "mutilation" - the removal of dew claws on neo-natal pups, when the breeder knows, and the vet knows, that some breeds do suffer terrible and painful injury to the leg when they rip a dewclaw seriously. This does not happen to all breeds of dogs so those of us who choose to protect our vunerable pups from future damage, because we know that they come from lines where this has happened in the past, are made to skulk around and quietly have it done, without alerting the AR-inclined vet nurses along the way.

Both of the above procedures were designed to PREVENT injury - not mutilation at all.

Yet, should we choose, in some states we can go out into the backyard and legally wring the same dog's neck, or legally cut it's throat, or kill it in other ways .... and this is not deemed to be an atrocity or mutilation?

People SHOULD kill animals humanely and there should be no cruelty, and on the land some people have to kill animals on their property.

My point is that AR activists, and others who are politically motivated, who scream "mutilation" to dew claw removal and tail docking, can actually turn a blind eye to the backyard butchers of dogs. Politicians likewise - because they will not risk losing votes, particularly in marginal electorates, or losing political donations.

Souff

Working dogs groups face an uphill battle as the Department of Primary Industries has already begun to police the new laws, which came into force on January 1.

Kelpie breeder Bill Scott from Glenrowan said there was no consultation with working dogs groups before the laws were drafted.

"For instance, under the new laws we understand all breeders have to be members of Dogs Victoria which is mainly for show dogs, and working dog people have their own groups but they are not recognised," Mr Scott said.

And this, Bill Scott, is unconstitutional.

The VCA (Dogs Victoria) is not a branch of the Victorian Government and therefore should not have a monopoly provided by legislation.

The money of the taxpayers of Victoria should not have been used to provide a monopoly to any canine business entity.

Constitutional lawyers across Australia should be looking very closely at this situation.

Heaven help us all if other states copy Victoria's legislation.

Souff

Will be interesting to watch this - Surely if they are killing goats and pigs for meat its a whole leap of difference to killing dogs for meat.

Hard to imagine anyone in Victoria would be interested in eating it .

Legally they can butcher meat for their own consumption - the only thing they have them on so far is butchering and selling the pork and goat meat

Cant say what the letter of the law is in Victoria, but I do know that it was quite legal to kill and eat dogs in NSW, just so long as the animal had been slaughtered humanely. I am not up to date with this subject now but pollies in marginal electorates used to dodge this subject like bullets .... because they didn't want to offend some sections of their loyal multicultural electorate. You should have seen the speed they used to change the subject, :) or check their phones and tell you that they "have to make an urgent phone call now - can I get back to you on that?"

And, of course, they never did.

Good old double standards - probably still alive and kicking in Victoria too.

Souff

sorry to upset souff with shorthand...

Still can't believe I actually sat there trying to figure it out!!! Doh!

"I am not asking for the owner to pay for my vet bills though the vet quoted me around $800 today"

Why not?

Imho, you most definitely should be asking for him to contribute to the vet bills.

Only cowards run away and avoid their responsibilities and your dog was injured by his dog.

IGA will probably have a surveillance camera so the manager might be able to help council officers or police to ID the coward and his dog.

Souff

Voloclydes, can you do Souff a little favour?

Please don't ever again use "gf" in doggy posts ........

Souff spent a good few minutes, after reading your first sentence, wracking my brain as to what type of dog a "gf" might be !!!!!!

On a more serious note about the dog, I am sorry but I would have to agree with others that it's designation was sealed by the person who filled out the microchipping form.

Souff

yeah i don't need a fence.... i have couch! usually with no room for humans to sit....

sophie my toughest rehome is laying next to me licking her paws to cool herself.... now if i look sideways then she will pile in my lap and this post, ok so she knocked the computer down battery fell out and by some mircle the post was still here!

she her first day here she refused to come... was terrified... and i though she would always be an aloof dog... now she wants to be with us... she will line up for a face rub, belly rub and any attention going.

now i am going to try to get her doing comp obedience... it might be an epic fail but who knows...

all dogs that have a chance are worth working with.... um maybe i should shut up now.... we got sophie by me knowing not when to shut up... but i will never regret it... never.

Excellent!

She might just surprise you at just how good she can be in comp. Go Sophie!!!

Souff

Are there any long term bark collar users out there? Or people for whom a bark collar has cured a barking problem?

We will use a collar (electronic or citronella) for a problem youngster who is just not getting the "quiet" message.

But only when we are there to observe the behaviour and to reinforce training.

We have had limited successes to the point where the dog would see me walking towards them with the collar and would have that look "Oh damn, the game is over!". I cannot honestly say that is a cure.

Negative experiences include one dog almost hanging itself on a gate; fortunately we were there in time.

Another dog wore out the sensor on a $200+ citronella collar. Container was full to the brim with the fluid, but the sensor had died.

Dog was moved to a country location where she still happily lives 6 years later and where she is allowed to bark at birds and anything else that moves. :D

Moving the dog indoors when you are not at home works well. Giving a dog a large bone to chew on is good for the ones who bark when you are at home. A dog who loves its bone is very often not interested in much else, and gee, it is hard to bark when you have those jaws clamped around a large tasty raw bone. :)

Souff

My daughter bought a little house type ornament that you can hang outside, and when the dogs bark it apparently sets of some sort of electonic sound that only the dogs can hear, I think she got it from a pet shop, it wasn't cheap but I believe it works ok.

Something like this?

http://www.barkcontrol.com.au/buy/petsafe-outdoor-bark-deterrent-pbc00-11216/51

Thank you :)

We had a similar device and it cost around $100. It worked for about 6 weeks and then it died. Kaput, and no refund.

I went back to putting the naughty dog indoors when I left the house, so the stimulus no longer set off the barker.

Much cheaper and a far more effective that keeps the neighbours happy.

A stationary device (without a human there) does not train a dog not to bark, but(when working)will make some dogs (not all) think twice before barking again.

Once the device is dead, the dog just goes back to barking again.

Souff

A yes, the mystical "farm" that's just itching to take on a problem dog.

I've noticed this a lot on DOL. People tend to think that problem dogs, hyper dogs, dog aggressive dogs, escapees etc etc all belong on a farm. I think there's more temptation to do wrong in rural areas than there are in the burbs.

;) ;) omg don't blow that myth out of the water.... its how we got all our dogs... useless owners who though dog needed more space and a farm would be ideal... hence we beat every other idiot who phoned emailed or enquired just because we have a real farm.

if you blow the myth how do i get another great dog at a great price! :rofl:

but i was unsuitable for a rescue cause 6ft colour bond was the requirement.

:D Ah, so you are "that" real farm! :D

Seriously, there are others too. Several are long standing contacts of Souff and because they understand how most dogs tick, the re-homed dogs have always settled in well. Biggest problem has been snakes.

And, just like you, they don't have the 6ft colour bond fence ....

Souff

Get help from an experienced trainer, before you are bitten on the face.

But the owner has to be absolutely committed. While it is unfair on a dog to PTS without getting proper help, I have yet to find any trainer that will provide a real guarantee that a dog that has bitten somebody like this will never bite again if it ends up in the wrong situation.

I totally agree.

As a delivery driver I see a lot of signs when working. One type in particular I see a lot of is "XX pups for sale". Many of these are cross breeds so wouldn't be registered pups (le sigh), but the ones that are stating "Pure Breed" I wonder if they are registered, ethical breeders who are simply advertising outside their residence?

On another note, I would personally be worried about putting up a sign... it's just asking for the pups to be stolen. Especially in some areas with certain breeds.

Those signs just invite trouble.

The world has internet now - much safer.

I can't understand how a 6 month old puppy could be so aggressive and cause so much damage.

That poor child

Do you know what RR's were bred to do?

Clyde you are right.. the owner picked up the dog in the wrong way. The dog still needs intensive training or to be PTS.. it was going to happen.

Put it this way.. I was in QLD when it happened. My friend just text me a pic of her face.. no explanation of what happened and I replied saying: The dog bit you didn't it...

Hugs, there should be no wrong way for an owner to pick up their dog.

A dog is supposed to trust and love the one who feeds it.

There is something very wrong in all of this situation.

I don't know how old this dog is, and I don't know it's breeding, but I do know that this is a dog in the wrong place.

The child can be given another dog to love and if this JRT is going anywhere other than the great kennel in the sky, it should be to a country property where it can spend its days catching and dissecting rabbits and other vermin.

This is a hunting terrier who would have lightning fast reactions, and from what I have read doesn't particularly like human company all that much. In an environment where he can chase and kill, he will be a happy terrier.

You have seen how he entertained people by repetitively jumping off a river bank. The movement of the water and what he could see moving in the water would have kept him stimulated and entertained for hours and while he was doing this he was not biting people on the face. Not all jacks are cuddly, calm little things - the breed is known for its hunting skills and some dogs have more of the hunting genes in them. This is one of those dogs I suspect.

Keeping him at his current residence is a recipe for disaster and a whole lot of dollars can be spent on behaviourists without a good long term result. Jacks are very smart little operators.

Under no circumstances should this dog go to any rescue organisation for re-homing. There will almost certainly be a repeat of this behaviour and next time it could be much worse.

Private re-home to a country property where Jacks run free on the property to hunt rabbits and foxes is the only solution, other than PTS, that I can think of.

Souff

There is a plan to have all dog related issues made accountable by an outside agency - I was told this is part of the strategy a couple of years ago by someone who was part of putting the plan together . Looks like the candidate is the RSPCA

Ive got 11 dogs here but 6 are working in the paddocks with the sheep and if I had to comply with this I would consider putting my old boy to sleep to bring it back to 10.

How old is the old boy?

Microchipping has been mandatory in NSW for around 13 years and still people don't chip puppies and most coming through pounds are not chipped - whilst I agree that adding the breeder details is a good move for having the ability to gather stats etc I don't hold much hope that this will help much to prevent people who breed dogs in rotten conditions. I spoke to a NSW CC registered breeder last week who has never chipped a pup and was complaining as now she has to in order to register her puppies. Does anyone really think that BYB and people who breed dogs in rotten conditions will comply?

When I drive in heavy traffic I often wonder how many of the drivers around me are not licensed. There is no way of knowing, unless they get pulled up by Officer Dibble. I hope all of the b's get caught.

Microchipping, registering animals, registering boats etc ..... it is all part of our way of life.

I have become a fan of microchipping over the years - it serves a good purpose.

If dodgy people don't want to comply then there is a chance that they will get busted.

And I hope that chance gets higher and higher.

Souff