tdierikx

I'd had multiple male and female Rotties over the years who cohabited perfectly fine... until the 2 that decided not to... and neither of those 2 were purebred Rottweilers... in fact the main aggressor wasn't even the Rotti cross, it was the Labrador. Both were female and desexed.

I understand fully why the incident(s) between them started, and when they continued to hate each other, I made sure they were separated at all times. It's not really rocket science to realise that a problem won't fix itself, and when all attempts to retrain them to not hate each other don't work, separation is the only solution really. Rehoming was not an option in either case for me, as how could I choose which of my beloved pets would have to leave? For me, separation wasn't as onerous a task, as I live alone, so no chance of anyone making a mistake and letting them run together.

Unfortunately, not all pet owners are fully clued into signs that their pets may not be getting along as famously as they think... and then some major incident occurs, and the owners end up saying "there weren't any signs", but there probably were plenty of signs, just the owner didn't understand what those signs were until it all went pear-shaped.

T.

9 hours ago, Amazetl said:

I think the problem is that what if the recent attacks that happened were also never showing any prior signs and then it just happened due to circumstances? Or was it more breeding aggression into the lines? Were there signs before?

For an attack this serious, there would have been some sign that something wasn't all sunshine and roses - in both Rottweiler attack scenarios... unfortunately, some (read most) people aren't equipped to realise that a problem is brewing until it's too late. Then there are those people who source certain breed types because they think they need some sort of "tough" pet, and they don't socialise the dogs because that would take the "mean" out of them... *sigh*

T.

On 18/09/2023 at 6:39 PM, Dogsfevr said:

2 boys having a fight she tried to separate .

Our human instinct is to do something to stop such things, but sometimes it's just not possible if the dogs have entered that stage of intent to harm each other, or anyone/anything else entering the sphere of said fight.

As I have said before in other dog-human attack stories/posts, there is often some factor that led up to the outcome... nice to see that follow-up reporting is actually advising of some of those factors in recent reports - unfortunately most people will not read follow-up reports that "explain" what happened, rather focusing on the first report and yelling for bans based on no facts at all... grrr!

T.

As someone who is waiting patiently for a well-bred and sound tempered Rotti from an amazing breeder of same, I'll be really ticked off if the government decides to ban the breed before I get the chance to share my life with him. I'll be even more ticked off if once I do have him in my life, the law changes to make it impossible for me to share him with others as a great example of a well bred member of his breed.

I have owned Rotti's from virtually every breeding background over the years, and none of mine have ever shown any human aggression or dominance, or any other negative trait... in fact most have been quite the opposite, soft natured goofballs who just want love and cuddles, and to drape themselves over the furniture and snore like chainsaws... lol!

T.

Might be worth noting that this actually happens every year... snakes start to get out and about at this time of year, and the warmer weather will have them thirsty and looking for readily available water sources.

The advice to keep your yards tidy and grass short is good... and I'd go one step further by setting drinking stations (for wildlife) at the far reaches of yards to keep the snakes as far away from the house and inhabitants as possible. They don't really want to be near us, but they need to find water when the usual drinking holes may have dried up in the heat.

T.

The video that @Purdie posted makes some very good points about identifying dogs in order to impose restrictions on them. To date, this has been done here in Australia based on mostly physical characteristics - ie. pretty much any bull breed type dog with a red/pink nose will get identified as a "pitbull" or cross thereof. Not to mention that those doing the identifying are not always qualified sufficiently to do so.

The problem faced by politicians is that the only thing they can do is make legislation - often as a kneejerk reaction to increased media reporting of a "problem". The media have a lot to answer for in this regard, as most incidents of dog on human attack are actually pretty rare, and also there is usually some trigger that leads to same - unfortunately reporting what led up to an attack is rarely reported, and some victims aren't willing to admit they may have done something that led to the dog(s) reacting badly. "Brain snaps" are even more rare in any breed - yes, they do very occasionally happen, but nowhere near as often as some (esp the media) will have you believe.

Obviously banning and/or restricting certain breeds has not been an effective "solution" to the problem of dog-human attacks, as so many of the reports about such attacks invariably identify the attacking dog as being of some banned/restricted breed - bans and restrictions that have been in place for decades may I add...

My personal feeling about certain dogs (of any breed) being more prone to dog-human aggression lies squarely on those who breed for a certain "market" - those people who want a dog because it "looks tough", with little regard for making sure that the animals produced are of sound temperament and safe to be out in the community. It's very rare to find that a dog that has attacked a human as having been bred by a reputable registered breeder... a statistic that is being conveniently overlooked as the media looks for the next "shocking" story to report and cause public outrage.

There have been calls to ban Rottweilers more than once in the past, that hasn't eventuated yet, and the rate of Rotti attacks on humans over the years has statistically been very low (or non-existent). It also is interesting to note that Queensland are looking to ban a whole raft of dog breeds right now, and since the announcement of same, media reports of dog attacks nationwide has jumped dramatically. Coincidence? Maybe not.

Obviously the solution to the problem of dog-human aggression is not as simple as just banning dogs that look to be a certain type... it's going to take a a much more multi-faceted approach to addressing what is required from the dog-owning public, so that every pet owner understands their obligations to the rest of society and to their pet. There also needs to be some effective solution to curtailing the indiscriminate breeding (which is NOT something reputable registered breeders are doing) of dogs willy-nilly in order to satisfy the market demand for pets. Pet ownership should not be seen as a "right", but as a "priviledge", and the onus should be squarely on pet owners to take responsibility for sourcing and raising socially acceptable animal citizens.

T.

2 reports of Rottweiler attacks in less than a week... looks like there will be calls to ban them too soon... grrr!

T.

I figured something triggered the dog somehow...

T.

asal has a point... some sharpei's can be somewhat territorial and not overly friendly with visitors/strangers, and I'd always defer to the owner as to temperament regarding me wanting to approach one.

The breed mix reported in the OP dog is not one I'd choose to create... too many factors in both breeds if not carefully managed that can lead to outcomes like that described in the article. One does wonder that if the dog had never shown any hint of what was to happen over the 8 years they family had owned it, that there might have been some triggering factor to cause this incident - be that underlying health issues in the dog, or some human induced factor that particular evening. As the dog has now been destroyed, no-one will ever know, and that just gives grist to the mill for those hell bent on banning certain breeds. I'd go so far as to suggest that a good 99% of dog attacks of this nature are not necessarily just a "brain snap" by the dog in question, but there will be some other factor that led up to the incident. Yes, "brain snaps" do occur, but they are not the norm, and are actually quite rare.

The unsettling thing is that some in the media have been having a field day espousing their opinions about banning certain breeds - some, like Caleb Bond on Chris Kenny Tonight the other night calling for a whole list of breeds to be banned - incuding GSDs and Rottis - idiot!. Funnily enough, none seem to be calling for a ban on sharpeis, just the other breed in that dog's mix... and/or other breeds traditionally used for guard/protection work.

When I had 5 rottweilers, I used to put them away when visitors came over... not because they were prone to wanting to hurt anyone, but more that some people don't appreciate multiple fully grown rottweilers trying to sit on their lap and trying to give them slobbery kisses.

T.

8 hours ago, cannibalgoldfish said:

They had him for 8 years? Was there a history or aggression or was there a health issue they hadn't realised?  

 

I don't suppose we will ever know...

T.

1 hour ago, Little Gifts said:

I know this is an old topic but does anyone know how the calendula is with ring worm on dogs? Looks like a foster with it is coming our way. Thank you!

No idea about calendula, but have had great results with Canesten Once Daily cream from the chemist... and it renders the lesions non-contagious within 48 hours of application. F10 shampoo is also good at rendering the lesions non-contagious in the same sort of timeframe, but needs a contact time of at least 10 mins before rinsing off to be truly effective.

T.

I've met a few too many "emotional support" dogs that are even more messed up than their owners, which is a shame really, as a sound animal used for that purpose is a literal lifesaver. Sometimes I wonder if some of them have been socialised properly before being "accredited" by whoever does that service.

As for having to deal with nasty dog farts and slobber on a long flight... I'd say they have a case for some sort of proper compensation.

T.

I have a litter of rescue pups here that I have been crate training one by one so that I know they should settle for their new owners once they leave me. They are also contained in a playpen either in the house (at night), or in my yard (during the day) when I can't supervise play/exploring. Each evening, I will take one pup from the playpen, and put them in a cage crate set up in the same room for a while - extending the time each session up to overnight by themselves. They can see me and the other pups, but essentially are on their own with a beddie and a couple of toys. Generally they have played with the toys for a short while, checked out the dimensions of their crate, had a little whinge/whimper, then settled down and just gone to sleep. I let them sleep for a little while, then go and open the crate... they will then either just stay there and sleep more, or slowly decide to come out, and then I'll pop them back in the playpen with their siblings, where they settle down and sleep again.

During the day, I will have a couple of supervised free running sessions in the yard to let them really run about and stretch their legs, explore the yard and have individual cuddle sessions with me if they came asking. The free running sessions last from 15-45 mins depending on my time constraints.

In the evening when we are all inside, each pup gets a good 30-45 mins of couch cuddles, where they get to settle on the couch with me watching TV, and just have them being nice and quiet on my lap or beside me. This trains them for quiet time before bed time, so they aren't hyped up and cause issues when it's time to sleep.

The first pup has gone to his new home now, and reports are that he easily settled into his night crate in their bedroom and slept quietly all night... no whinging or getting upset at all. They also have a couple of playpens set up for when he's not supervised, one inside, and one in the yard, and he has settled straight into the daily routine beautifully. He is 10 weeks old.

T.

I'm with asal and Dogsfevr... at 6 weeks it would be near on impossible to either diagnose a luxating patella in a puppy, let alone grade it. Just out of curiosity, is the vet involved going to be the one who performs the surgery, or is he advising a specialist orthopedic vet to do it?

My first suggestion would be getting the pup to a specialist in orthopedics for a second opinion on this diagnosis.

I would be extremely leery of any vet who thinks they can diagnose such an issue in a 6 week old pup, let alone one that advocates surgery for that issue before the pup has reached full maturation of the joint..

As stated by asal, patellar luxation is not necessarily a surgical case, as some dogs have perfected their own means of rectifying it as it happens, and are not in any level of actual pain when that happens. Any orthopedic surgery also has it's own risks and long term effects, such as earlier onset of arthritis... the trick is to understand what the trade-offs are for the dog's long term health and wellbeing, and whether we will be causing more of the latter in order to "fix" the former.

I have a litter of small breed rescue pups here. They are 10 weeks old and all have quite loose joints, but that is perfectly normal for their developmental stage for their breed type. I remember watching them as tiny slugs just learning to get their legs under themselves to learn to walk, and was amazed at exactly how loose all the joints were and the strange angles they could get into. All 4 pups are now running and playing perfectly normally and developing well, albeit their joints are still a bit loose, as is perfectly normal for their developmental stage.

I'd be interested to know what breed your pup is too...

T.

How often is she being fed? If you are feeding her once a day, and that is in the evening, then maybe her drinking is related to eating what you are feeding her? I'm assuming you are feeding the kibble SPD food...

If the above is the case, then maybe try 2 smaller meals a day, say morning and evening, or maybe a mix of kibble and tinned (or roll) SPD might take the edge off her thirst after eating. Kibble can be a bit salty/dry, so many dogs drink a lot more if on a kibble-only diet.

T.

Here's a quote from one of the submissions to the vet shortage inquiry...

"Vets are experts at euthanasia. And suicide."

I'll just let that sink in...

T.

If the same dog had been visiting the centre for at least 6 years without incident, one would wonder what was different about this particular day/encounter that triggered it to bite. I'm thinking that the whole story may never be truly known, and we all know how much the media love to beat up any dog bite incidents to immediately blame the dog... not to mention that all kids' mothers will say that their darling child would always behave appropriately around animals (which isn't always the case, as we all know).

I'm certainly not trying to minimise the gravity of this incident, just that there may be factors around why that will never be reported. I hope the little boy eventually understands that this was a fairly rare thing to happen, and he keeps loving animals of all kinds, albeit with a little caution when he doesn't know the animal very well.

T.

Yep... a very high proportion of those overseas students are leaving Australia shortly after gaining their degree... they are under no obligation to stay here and practice at all. Then add that to the fact that overseas student places in the vet courses outnumbers places for Australian (read subsidised) students, AND the fact that overseas students paying full fees are not subject to the rigorous entry level requirements that Australian students have to go through... well, can you see a problem here?

Here's an interesting aside... speaking to a 2nd year vet science student (Syd Uni) recently who wasn't even aware that there was an inquiry into the vet shortage issues - even though their University sent their own delegation to appear at said inquiry. The universities appearing at the hearings were pretty much avoiding the issues of post graduated vets, essentially saying that they needed more funding from government, but also being a little vague as to what that extra funding would be spent on...

For anyone interested, the transcripts from the hearings are now available for viewing... https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/committees/inquiries/Pages/inquiry-details.aspx?pk=2964#tab-hearingsandtranscripts

Note Emma and Abigail kept asking about "Veticare", and there was quite a bit of discussion about how a system similar to Medicare won't work, but some good suggestions about a telehealth model that may go some way to resolving some of the burdens faced by vets and pet owners. AWL's mobile clinic was also a great incentive, but the problems they have been facing need to be addressed to make the model a viable prospect long term.

It was disappointing  that the government had withdrawn the promised funding for the Byron Bay Wildlife clinic/hospital, which is a wonderful asset for sick and injured wildlife, and quite frankly we need more of those types of facilities, not less...

One submission really stood out for me - that of Dr Jocelyn Birch Baker - she was also a witness at the hearings on day 1 - some really awesome solutions to some of the issues vets are facing on a daily basis that she has put into action at her own clinic(s) and are working very well... https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/lcdocs/submissions/79975/0061 Dr Jocelyn Birch Baker.pdf

It will be interesting to see the final report from the inquiry... hopefully the Chair will have some level of control about keeping to the facts and not let Emma run roughshod over what information is included or discarded like she did in the puppy farming inquiry last term of office... grrr!

The next big inquiry to watch out for is the one into NSW pounds... that committee is chaired by Emma and deputy chair is Abigail Boyd, both whom have some fairly strong AR agendas, so I'm not holding much hope for any real common sense results to come from that... but miracles can happen... fingers crossed. Les see what the composition of the witness list is for those hearings... I'm tipping it's going to be overloaded with AR leaning groups screaming doom and gloom and calling for all breeders to be banned, etc...

An interesting note re the pounds inquiry... submission entry closed on 18 August, yet none have been published on the inquiry webpages to date. Normally submissions are published either as they come in and are vetted, or within a couple of days of the closing date... we are now 2 weeks post that date, and nothing published yet... which is highly anomalous.

T.

So much discussed at yesterday's hearings, and this waffle is the only take-away the media gets? Sentient are an Animal Rights organisation set on restricting animal ownership, and certainly don't speak for the vet industry in any way, shape, or form.

"Key concerns included a lack of work life balance, pay concerns and the increased pressure from 3 million ‘pandemic pets’ due to Covid."

And they also missed the overriding largest issue faced by vets (and all vet clinic staff actually) - which is unrealistic expectations from clients, and the high incidence of abuse (both verbal AND physical) when clients are faced with the actual costs of those expectations. This was closely followed by the fact that graduating vets have not been taught the realities of working in the industry, such as the long hours, low pay, and the human to human communication skills required - after all, you are primarily dealing with humans who own the animals you see/treat. Graduating vets are also not inclined to work in mixed practice (small AND large animals), preferring to stay in urban areas and where the client base is more predictable and the pay a bit better than rural/regional practice.

Another issue that was raised is that vet nurses are facing very similar issues as vets, and are leaving the profession in large numbers too. If they think vets get paid crap, vet nurses are paid even less - effectively not receiving a living wage even if they secure permanent full-time work. Hospitality staff waiting tables or making coffees get paid a better hourly rate than vet nurses (and in some cases even more than vets)... just let that sink in for a while... the person making the pretty pattern in the crema of your coffee gets paid better than the vet nurse who is in charge of monitoring your pet's anaesthesia and vital signs during surgery...

With regard to the abuse issue, that has been a growing problem in society overall. People in customer facing jobs have been subject to increasing levels of abuse over the past few years, often bearing the brunt of people's ire for any number of things beyond their control. This attitude needs to stop, and we all need to treat each other with the  level of respect we expect for ourselves... it's not really all that hard, honest!

The vet shortage inquiry hearings continue today from 9:30am for anyone interested - today's witnesses are from organisations representing vet nurses and vet education facilities (universities) - might be interesting to get their take on why the graduates they train aren't the least bit prepared for the realities of life as a vet.

T.

Our farm dog hated peas, so we'd hide a single pea in his dinner - a mix of leftovers and kibble - that he'd wolf down in seconds... except for one solitary shiny clean pea left in the bottom of his bowl... lol!

When I was a student vet nurse, the head nurse told me to go give a cat a pill, so I went to the cat, opened it's mouth, inserted the pill down the back, then closed it's mouth and blew gently in it's nose to make it swallow... job done, no mess, no fuss! Then the head nurse said that pilling the cat was a test, to see how I'd handle a cat that apparently was a bastard to pill... I offered to teach her my method, but she declined and just said that I was now the designated cat piller person... grrr!

T.

Link to Easy Thumbnails software... it's free, and I highly recommend it too.

https://www.fookes.com/easy-thumbnails

T.

Did the lump get to that size over time, or has it come up more suddenly? I would be having the vet actually look at it and feel it to make sure that it's just an inflammatory reaction, and not something more sinister like an abscess that may require some intervention to stop it getting worse. Better safe than sorry is the general rule here...

T.

My eyes are leaking... in a good way...

Thank you @sandgrubber

T.

The clinic I worked at didn't add the antibiotic shot after surgery as a line item, as it was included in the surgery cost... as was the long acting pain relief shot all animals also get.

When I was with the rescue I fostered lots of pups for, I was never given antibiotics for any of the pups after desexing surgery, and they all healed just fine with no complications. There is usually no real need to give a week's worth of antibiotics after any surgery, unless it is a particularly long and tricky one where the inside of the animal is exposed to the air for an extended period of time.

T.

They possibly gave her a long acting antibiotic injection at the end of surgery before she woke up (the clinic I was at did it with every surgery), and if her surgery was the first of the day, then she would have recovered from the anaesthetic earlier, and been ready to go home earlier. Some dogs recover really quickly from the anaesthetics, so why keep them sitting in a cage at the clinic when they could be home in a familiar environment?

T.