Starkehre

Sorry to hear about your girl. Provided all else is ruled out and it is definitely muscle atrophy caused by the venom, then I would also highly recommend swimming. The only drawback with swimming is that it mostly develops the front - chest and shoulders of dogs, not the rear, though it can help. Many dogs (Greyhounds often being one of them) can float and not use their rear legs at all. Underwater treadmill or walking with T Touch Pads will help immensely with buiding up many different muscle groups in the rear. Obviously whatever you take on build up slowly. Even walking up hills and along hillsides will be fantastic. If she has been getting little exercise at all since she has been recovering, you may be very surprised how much simple walking will help. Best of luck with your girl and I hope she has a full recovery. well done for taking her on. You deserve a medal.

Thanks Dyzney, i appreciate the sentiment there. Quit often, when I get called out to a snake, the snake is already in pain from being hit with a shovel, attacked by a dog or cat, or it is caught in bird netting which is cutting into it. Because we are a registered shelter ,we are able to keep the animals untill they have recovered from their injuries. If the patients are to far gone they are euthanised. The snake in the video was released after two minutes of filming and it certainly looked very healthy as it moved. I need to see them move to make sure they are ok. In some cases bones are broken along the back and this will affect my decision on what i do with it. Sometimes i have to make it defensive so i can see that it is in good enough nic to be able to survive. I wonder if the people saying the snake was distressed have seen what happens in an abbatoir,or a chicken farm,pig farm or just plain real life for that matter. Upsets me no end to hear of and see people killing snakes. They are beautiful creatures, and it is heartening to see another snake lover around. I lived on property in Langy backjing onto the quarry that had plenty of snakes around. We managed to co-habitate with them and having horses, cats, chooks and dogs and never had an issues. You need to aware and vigilent, but other than had, I was more tha happy to live with them around. The cat bring a tiger into the bedroom one day was a bit much, but we just let it go, all good. Yes, she appeared to be in tremendous health and definitely a great feeder. You are very local to me now, so if I ever require your services, will send you a PM

I know all about "cage defensiveness" snake catcher ;) I still have the scars on my hand where one of my pythons left 2 of her teeth in my hands when going me just prior to feeding time. The funny part was that I didn't realise the teeth (or parts of) were still in my hand. Just bled like a stuck pig (as you do when you get hit by a python). Anyway, later that week whilst away on a country run interstate, my hand starting to swell up and hurt quite a lot, and that was when I thought there may have been something left in there. So, I went a long to the GP. I told him I had a snake's tooth in my hand. Well, he looked at me stupid, and I then realised he was waiting for me to open my hand and pass him a snake's tooth. I said, "sorry, no, I mean under the skin, I was bitten" He was not amused, but humoured me, gave me a local and started to dig around in there. I think he was extremely surprised to actually dig out 2 pieces of the teeth. He asked me if he could take them home to show his family, as it was a good conversation piece. "Sure", I said. I didn't want them. ;) Yes, Copperheads are super quick feisty little buggers. I caught one right outside my backdoor several years ago when we lived on the property. And yes, I always use a hook to catch snakes. Hooks are smooth and put no pressure on their under belly. And for the record, I LOVE snakes. wish I still had them as pets, but OH is not a big fan Added, there are so many that still kill snakes, when legally and morally it is the wrong thing to do. I think snake catcher is doing a wonderful service, and people not experienced in snake handling perhaps should not be commenting on methods they have no expertise in. Also remember everything we watch on tele has been filmed. If nothing was ever shown to us by this medium, how would we ever learn so much about wild life etc? anyway, that is just my opinion.

My rule of thumb when moving has always been this... if moving is not done entirely in one day, then I sleep (and my dogs sleep) wherever the fridge is. I find you can do without most things except what is in the fridge. Good luck with your move. I HATE moving, and hence why I try to it as little as possible.

Down by the waterfall for 3 days sounds just perfect. How wonderfully peaceful. I am glad you are coping OK. Best of luck with your new fostering venture.

Lovely to see you back PF. How was your trip away with OH? I hope you are coping OK. When will you be getting your foster?

What a lovely gesture rellie. I am sure Peter will really appreciate that. Will chat later blossom.

I didn't know Jan, but nazrelle has spoken of her many times to me. People like Jan are far and few between. She will be sorely missed I know it brought much comfort to Jan to have Rellie take on her Foxhounds, as they are in a wonderful home. Rellie you have always been a dear friend to Jan, and she was so proud of your amazing achievements with Hennessey and now with Nettle. Rellie, I know how upset you are to lose your gorgeous friend Jan, and I am so sorry. My condolences to Peter and family at this very difficult time. Rest in peace Jan. No more pain and fatigue.

peacefrog, I am still in shock from your email. I am crying so hard for you and little Esmay. I am so so sorry it ended this way. I have been praying so much that Esmay would get well pf. Your wonderful vets could not have done anymore. Run free little Esmay. Be free from pain and illness. Make friends with all our lost companions and play together in doggie heaven. pf, please call me if you want to.

That's really funny cause I was at Target on the weekend (Somerville, Vic), and I noticed they had it on the checkout counter also. I thought at the time it was a weird thing to have there, but it sounds like ot must be a national promo they are running. I normally get mine from Priceline, but yep, readily available.

Thanks for updating us again pf. You must be absolutely buggered. I know our vets didn't not want Dyzney given anything herbal or different, just in case it set her immune system red flagging again, but perhaps yours will say differently, about the milk thistle I mean. I wanted to give Manuka Honey, but as she had never had it before, they just said a very firm NO. But nothing is silly pf. I told you that I spent many hrs doing spiritual healing on Dyzney and meditated when I was at home. I will never know if it helped pull her through, but none of it can hurt. I did so much sole searching during that time it was incredible. a real growth period for me. Forgive me if I am wrong here pf, but the biopsy is to look for bone marrow cancer, which would explain why she would not be reproducing the cells. From the biopsy they can get a positive reading that will be definite or a negative reading that can be inconclusive. If she has got BMC, then they will talk to you about this, but really it would be best just to give Esmay her wings at that point as she is not likely to get better. If they get a negative reading, they keep soldiering on and looking for another primary, until Esmay's levels start picking up. I think Dyzney had 2 biopsies over period of a week, just in case it was going to appear positive the 2nd time whe it did not the first. She was negative each time. If there is no primary to be found, it just takes time. Hang in there peacefrog and Esmay. My best wishes to you both. :D

I'm doing ok Dyz, have my moments everyday, it hurts like hell, but you know what thats like... Reading the way they are treating Esmay makes me wonder why they didn't give Jordy more transfusions, all mute questions now but they are getting in and giving her lots more, would that be because she is smaller? or maybe they are more experienced with the disease and know the best shot is to keep transfusing...........hope it works, things are looking up a little for Esmay, hugs to her xxxx I know Boke, still so raw for you. :D I have no idea of more transfusions would have helped Jordy, and I don't think size has anything to do with it, but I am not really sure.

Hi Boke, how are you going? Esmay is doing OK. Her platelets had lifted a little, but are remaining and not rising to where they should be for the moment. Vets are conducting more tests to rule out secondary cause. She appears as though she is starting to manufacture her own red blood cells, though they will not be sure until they have these results back from the bone marrow test. Although it is still all good news so far, some better news would be better very soon. she is still having fairly regular blood transfusions, so these are keeping her in good stead whilst pf plays the waiting game for the drugs to do their thing and knock her bloody immune system on the head.

Hi groupfive, once again, I am so sorry to hear about your boy. It will probably still be raw forever. I lost Ruby to IMT 4 years ago next month, and it hurts like crazy. Each Immune Mediated thread that comes up makes me feel sick to the stomach when I see them Regarding your question, I am not a vet and have no real expertise in the field, and would never claim to, but I will have a go at answering your question as best as I can from all the information I have learned over the past 4 years.... Before I start, please understand that there is relatively little known about Immune Mediated disorders, and quite often even the vets are adding a fair bit of guess work when trying to answer questions. They do their best, but the cases manifest and respond to treatment in so many different ways. So, as you understand, IM diseases are idiopathic, which means they cannot say for sure what has caused it, unless it is secondary. I would say your first selected answer is closer to the correct one. Quite often these things show outward symptoms over night, but what has typically been happening is for the past 2-3 months the immune system has decided to red flag something in the body of the dog and things are already happening, but just slowly. When you see the dog crash, that is when it has reached rock bottom. Both my dogs exhibited different signs. One appeared with more warning and the other overnight, like your boy. What is tricky is that being idiopathic, quite often the owners have a fairly good idea of what may have caused the on set of the disease. I strongly believe that I know what brought on both of mine - Rimadyl and Stibestrol, but of course I will never actually know that for sure. What I do know is that these are both drugs that are included in the list of possible causes of IM disorders, and both my dogs received these in the correct time frame before becoming ill and had not been administered these previously. Now, let's say that you had a sudden epiphany, and felt strongly about what your boy's cause was, let's say it just dawned upon you. Let's say you got a new deck out in the backyard that had been treated with chemicals and he spent much part of the day laying on it and this 2-3 months prior to him becoming ill, and not one other single thing had changed in his life. Then let's say you did some research into the chemicals contained in this decking timber. So, then what?? You see, you have no proof, so the vets will not take that on board and include it into any study or information that becomes readily available to vets treating the disease with others later on. So, you may feel you know what caused it in your boy, but no one else will ever know the dangers of this decking timber with these chemicals. See what I mean. And here is the other thing... sadly your boy passed away, so as it turned out, it really didn't matter too much that you did not find out what brought the disease on, because you did not need to remove whatever it was from his life. Of course you are curious, and we all would be, but the answer is mute really. So, all these drugs and chemicals that could all be possible factors into causing IM illnesses (along with other things like stress, hormones, excessive exercise, vaccinations and others) are used everyday successfully on hundreds and thousands of other dogs, and nothing goes wrong. So, why your dog, why my dogs, why peacefrogs dog and others??? From what I have learned talking to many many vets and specialists over the past 4 years... the general concensus is that it is genetic. The predisposition is hereditary. Having said this it still does not seem to pop up in certain lines commonly. It is still relatively rare, but does appear. So, a predisposition and then a trigger seems to be what most of the more highly regarded specialists believe. Now, having said all of this some people can never come up with their dog's trigger. I have a friend on here that has absolutely no idea what brought it on in her girl. We are all wondering if there is a heat component to the triggers, as many of these dogs are getting it in the hot months of the year. But then could that be air-conditioning or excessive water with fluoride, who knows?? I know of 2 people that believe it was brought on by swimming in dams, and that may have been blue green algae?? When the dogs diagnosed with an IM disease have an obvious underlying problem that is also found, the IM is secondary, and these ones are less brain challenging as more questions are answered. But primary IM diseases are and will probably always be a bit of a puzzle. I have received some other interesting information from vets too. We do know that it is more common in middle aged bitches, and more prolific in some breeds also. But an interesting one I found out was that some specialists in USA believe it is more prevalent in black and tan dogs. Interesting. I know Cocker Spaniels and Rottis are high on the list of more common breeds, and Dobermanns are on there also. So, there is definitely a genetic component. At this point, it is not something I would blame a breeder for, as often they are not aware of it. I don't know if I have answered your question well, but I hope it helps a bit.

Groupfive, and others interested, Esmay is still with us. She is riding the rollercoatster that IMT brings with treatment. Groupfive I am so sorry you lost your lad to an IM disease. Yes they are hideous bastards of things, that there still is only limited information on. Since peacefrog posted here last there have been several lows and bad news and much upset, to some much more promising news with lifted platelets and Esmay producing her own red blood cells again. Currently she is doing reasonably well, all considered and things are looking as positive as they canwhilst this battle goes on. pf is doing an amazing job of being strong and supporting her sweet little Esmay, and the vets are brilliant. I know pf is tired and emotional, but absolutely to be expected. Her dad is being a pillar of strength along with others around her. I hope she does not mind me updating here for her, we have been keeping in touch. I am sure she will post as soon as she feels up to it, and I know she appreciates everyone's support. Come on Esmay, you keep fighting little girl.

Oh pf, I hate hearing you like this. Boke and I, and many others know just what you are going through, and there is nothing any of us can do, but all pull together with loving thoughts of best wishes and wellness for Esmay. It is such a goddamned emotional rollercoaster. I really feel for you. The vomitting could be the start of tummy ulcers or it could be just nausea from the drugs. The medication is so tough of their tummies, especially the littlies. I hope the vomitting stops or was just a one off. They put Dyz on Ondancetron for her tummy ulcers, but it made her nauseous. So, we had to take her straight back off it. And nasagastric for feeding is too risky with bleeding. As long as she keep eating, it will keep her strong and help lessen the risk of tummy ulcers. Get whatever you can into her. Even take yummy stuff in with you if she is not eating what the vets are giving her. I hope Esmay turns the corner soon pf. Poor little girl. Sounds like the vets are doing a wonderful job. Hang in there pf. Hugs to you.

Great news pf. Go Esmay. The drugs you speak of that you should not handle are Imuran (Azathiaprine). Esmay will still be on cortisone. They cannot take her off that quickly. She will probably stay on cort for quite a long time, and then very slowly be weaned off it. Oh, I just realised I read that incorrectly... they mad you handle Esmay with gloves?? OK, that is something I have not heard of. Perhaps it is not Imuran, but I think it would be. I thought you only needed to handle the tablets with gloves, not the dog?? anyway, good idea to do what they recommend. This is great news pf, I am really excited for you. It is still early days though. And look at Pixie and Esmay on the bed. they look like the terrible twosome uo to mischief. Such cuties. I bet Pixie is missing Esmay. Hipefully she will be home soon. Hoping for some more good news on lifted platelets soon.

I looked very closely at "select breed" sections and age cut offs in policies when I started looking. Also cruciate ligaments was high on my criteria for good cover, having large breeds. Hence I went for PIA

Omg that is horrible. My dog would die. 1. Because I don't have $1200 in my bank most of the time 2. Because my daily transaction limit is $800 so even if it was in there I wouldn't have immediate access. Thats really frightening A bit OT, but just in case this helps (personally I prefer insurance), but PTD, those withdrawal limits are on our cards, not on our accounts. I found this out last year. So, if you ever find yourself in said situation, as long as you have a 2nd card linked to that same account, you can withdraw more funds, over and above the limit, another $800. So, get a 2nd card if you have not got one already, just in case. But, like you say, you may not have over $800 in there anyway. I have a card for each account, then I went to the atm and linked them all to each other as well. So, they all have multiple uses and there is just about no limit. Having said that, I have never had to use this benefit. Just a tip for emergencies. Oh, sorry chocolate, I mean to say, I am very relieved that your dogs are OK.

I believe vets are legally bound to keep all xrays they take on file for X amount of years. Cannot remember if it is for the life of the dog or an amount of years. cw, if it is for a second opinion and in the same building, simply ask the receptionists to pass the xrays on to the specialist in question that you are seeking the 2nd opinion from. No, there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking for a 2nd opinion, it is an excellent idea. Hopefully they will co-operate and make it easy for you. There is no real reason why they shouldn't, but I have explained what the actual laws are regarding xrays and who owns them. Charlie's story certainly is interesting, and I can understand why they want to learn more from it.

In actual fact Willow, how it was explained to me is that the client has paid to have the xrays done and read, not paid for the films to be their property. If your vet pracrice does this, then that is really cool, but legally they do not have to. Please note, I am all for clients having xrays, not the other way around, just in case it sounded that way

cw, I recently came up with a similar question and found this out... xrays (the actual film) is and will always the property of the vet that tok them. the information on them (weird as this sounds) is your property, so any reports regarding the xrays belong to you. Yes, some vets are happy to print off copies of xrays for you, but my experience is that most will not, and legally do not have to. A lot of vets also loathe to pass on xrays to other vets unless they are specialist versus local vet etc. If you were simply changing vets, they will possibly refuse. I hope I have explained that clearly. Hope Charlie is doing OK.

Hi pf. Well it is still all positive news. Yes, I am hoping to hear of an improvement soon also. If the vets are considering any of the other drugs and thinks Esmay will benefit by taking them, then give them the go ahead asap, as they take longer to kick in, and that is why they always go for cortisone first, it is almost instant. It is a race against the clock. She needs her very options as early as possible to give her a fighting chance at life. By memory we started Dyzney on Imuran (Azothiaprine), Misoprostol and Cyclosporin on day 3 or 4, as well as the Cortisone (Prednisolone). Keeping fighting Esmay. You can go it little girl.

How is Esmay this morning pf. Any improvement as yet? I am hanging out for some good news.

You are welcome pf. I just finished sending you my great long winded PM reply. Sounds like Esmay is in good hands. Something the vets will want to try to ascertain fairly quickly, once they have Esmay blood loss and platelets under control, is whether her IMT is primary or secondary. So, they will want to be running tests when they get her well enough. I am no vet, but if there is anything you want to know that I could possibly help with, please just ask. Get well Esmay