Nic.B

I hope so Jules, HP now desex thank god though the number of times people come in to find a breeding male or female is a nightmare. Then there are those who believe a female has to have at least one litter prior to desex. Seriously, they stand in front of you and clearly state it with 80 impounded dogs around them!

And how exactly do you suggest councils and shelters pay for vasectomies? My understanding is that the procedure is far more expensive. Shelter staff are not misguided nor amateurs, I have met the most incredible shelter staff from all over the country. Have you ever worked or volunteered in a shelter? I gather not from your comments, perhaps you should, either that or keep your stupid misguided comments to yourself! And the vets, they are amateurs as well remember Nic. We're clearly up against rock solid logic. I hope you now doubt the evidence of your own eyes. Nope, those on the ground and on the front line see it all as you know :)

And how exactly do you suggest councils and shelters pay for vasectomies? My understanding is that the procedure is far more expensive. Shelter staff are not misguided nor amateurs, I have met the most incredible shelter staff from all over the country. Have you ever worked or volunteered in a shelter? I gather not from your comments, perhaps you should, either that or keep your stupid misguided comments to yourself!

Yes, there are many benefits of desexing. I would never, ever send out a rescue entire. While there is no evidence to support the fact that desexing reduces the number of dogs arriving in shelters. If you look at VIC where all shelters must desex prior to rehome the stats are off as all other avenues of breeding/selling are not required to desex. If all avenues of sale desexed, you would see a reduction in shelters. (Not talking RB's BTW) I have seen six month old females leave the shelter entire, only to be returned after a litter. They keep one female, sell the rest and bring back Mum Others come back after their first season in whelp or with their puppies. It does happen quite freqently. By desexing, you can become part of the solution rather than contribute to the problem of unwanted/unplanned litters and or unreputable breeding. There is quite a lot of info on early age desexing both in the US and Aust. All puppies I have rescued/fostered have been desexed early, they hardly skip a beat, little bugs :)

Poochiemama I agree you have been very respectful and open minded which is great :) Greytmate has offered some fantastic advice and has a lot of experience, it is not personal at all. There is so much valuable information and education you can offer. Personal rescue stories are also great. "To be expected" settling in behaviour is always very worthwhile. Promoting puppy school, obedience training, socialisation and offering basic training tips, stimulation ideas etc is also worthwhile. One thing that stood out for me was a comment in which you say if you get a puppy forget dinner dates etc. That frustrated me as there are endless options such as crate training, getting a friend to mind the puppy or dinner order in. Sorry have only looked once at your site, so if I have got it wrong appologies in advance.

I wouldn't have the Pope in my house ... :laugh: I remember when the Pope visited Aust, he stayed a few minuites down the road from here and we locals were all told if we stopped our cars on the street we would be arrested

I agree GM. Thanks for posting Muttus, I have not had any personal "in home" experiences like these though I have had some seriously odd applications. I spend a lot of time doing a fair bit of legwork, prior to any visits. Speaking with their vet can be handy :) I am sorry you feel so creeped out I agree always trust your intuition. My problem is that people are here for so long! I always invite them inside, make tea/coffee (even cakes or sandwiches ) I am having a break from fostering though this is an eye opener for me.

Hey! Thanks so much for your feedback. I agree there is a huge amount that I could add eg guide for adoption. But bear in mind I only started the site yesterday! Would love feedback on what else you would like to see on the site. I am trying to keep it a little humorous, although I take it very seriously. Truly I don't want to offend you at all. What market are you gearing toward? Regardless of an average dog owner or promoting a specific cause ie; rescue you need fantastic info, advice and stategies to address various "normal puppy or dog behaviour" esspecially when dogs are moving into a new home or a new environment. I read what you had up, and as a "would be" potential new dog owner I thought "Nup" too hard. It was a negative experience for me personally. I guess for me you need to think about the market you would like to target and then ensure you have fantastic advice and suggestions offered, or perhaps links? Swearing is out. I swear at times :laugh: though if I had my own website, no way.

Hey :) Can not believe I am the first to post (read your thread very briefly early am). To be honest I am left feeling very dissapointed, no offence intended. I think it is great that you are a passionate dog owner/lover and you are doing your best to assist shelter dogs. Swearing and some of your advice is 100% off for rescued pets IMO. There could be a huge amount more advice offered on your site (and questions) in implementing a 'guide' for an owner/family to adopt from a shelter directly and what to expect. Normal settling in behaviour etc. Have you thought about volunteering at your local shelter?

If all owners of dogs either big dogs or small, followed the law & never let their dogs off leash, except in off leash areas, there wouldn't be a problem. Also, why should people with FA dogs have to keep their dogs prisoners, because of irresponsible owners? You do realise that dogs become FA, after being attacked by off leash dogs, while they were on lead aren't you? Honestly, it just annoys me that people think that because big dogs can cause more damage, they are the only ones who should follow the law. I do agree with the OP, the dogs in this case are definitely in the wrong & I feel sorry for the poor dog & the owners. What exactly is your problem Mantis? You either have a FA or DA dog in a public area? Surely as a responsible owner you would either; avoid setting the dog up for failure in the first place; or as an owner who KNOWS your dog is either FA or DA you make SURE your dog is not forced into a position to fail. ETA Spelling. Your reply is my problem, if I as a responsible owner walks my dog on lead & doesn't go to off lead areas, I should be able to walk my dog without fear of it being attacked. Because of the attitude of some people on here & moron dog owners in the community, I am to scared to walk my new dog Cougar, in case she ends up like my poor Kenny. It's total bull****, keep your dogs on lead if you don't want them hurt & to stop them hurting other dogs, big or small, how hard is that? A fully expected reply and a really crap response.

If all owners of dogs either big dogs or small, followed the law & never let their dogs off leash, except in off leash areas, there wouldn't be a problem. Also, why should people with FA dogs have to keep their dogs prisoners, because of irresponsible owners? You do realise that dogs become FA, after being attacked by off leash dogs, while they were on lead aren't you? Honestly, it just annoys me that people think that because big dogs can cause more damage, they are the only ones who should follow the law. I do agree with the OP, the dogs in this case are definitely in the wrong & I feel sorry for the poor dog & the owners. What exactly is your problem Mantis? You either have a FA or DA dog in a public area? Surely as a responsible owner you would either; avoid setting the dog up for failure in the first place; or as an owner who KNOWS your dog is either FA or DA you make SURE your dog is not forced into a position to fail. ETA Spelling. Your reply is my problem, if I as a responsible owner walks my dog on lead & doesn't go to off lead areas, I should be able to walk my dog without fear of it being attacked. Because of the attitude of some people on here & moron dog owners in the community, I am to scared to walk my new dog Cougar, in case she ends up like my poor Kenny. It's total bull****, keep your dogs on lead if you don't want them hurt & to stop them hurting other dogs, big or small, how hard is that? If you are a responsible "dog owner" and you walk large or small breed/s on lead, in a public area: What is your problem you flip?

If all owners of dogs either big dogs or small, followed the law & never let their dogs off leash, except in off leash areas, there wouldn't be a problem. Also, why should people with FA dogs have to keep their dogs prisoners, because of irresponsible owners? You do realise that dogs become FA, after being attacked by off leash dogs, while they were on lead aren't you? Honestly, it just annoys me that people think that because big dogs can cause more damage, they are the only ones who should follow the law. I do agree with the OP, the dogs in this case are definitely in the wrong & I feel sorry for the poor dog & the owners. What exactly is your problem Mantis? You either have a FA or DA dog in a public area? Surely as a responsible owner you would either; avoid setting the dog up for failure in the first place; or as an owner who KNOWS your dog is either FA or DA you make SURE your dog is not forced into a position to fail. ETA Spelling.

Sorry Rebanne, should know better though this flip is seriously giving me the creeps!

Quote 'I wonder how some of these small dog owners would feel if they owned a larger breed' :laugh: I have only ever owned one small breed in my entire life. Billy lives with a large breed and two medium breeds.

I've encountered both situations and I agree, when a larger dog goes for your dog it is scary and not acceptable, especially if unprovoked. I can think of two different larger dogs that attacked my last dog, I couldn't count the number of little yappers that aggressively approached him though. Neither situation is acceptable and I find it amazing on a forum like this where so many claim to be experts on dog behaviour that some of those so called experts seem to think that a small dog doing it is fine. ETA : In my experience owners of little yappy fluffballs who allow their dogs to aggressively approach other dogs have no concept of how it affects the owners of the other dog. Although I've been lucky to have a fairly non-reactive dog I was always worried when he was targeted by a yapper - clearly I wasn't worried about the little yapper doing damage to him but what if he did react? There would be no mention in the news report that said little yapper started it, it would be all my, and my dogs fault! Do you clowns not realise that? Clowns You are the clown! If you are not able to manage your dog then perhaps you need pro advice. I am glad you do not have any of my dogs on lead or otherwise. You are not able to manage your dog (even when on lead) when a small or larger breed approaches! Have you stopped for even a moment and considered the disservice you are giving your own dog? You are setting up your dog for failure. You have stated your dog has been attacked more than once. I am not suprised at all. My Bull Arab will roll over on her back like a lump when my SB corrects her bouncy and silly antics. When out in the community Fern will submit instantly to any unknown dog (large or small breed) She is a well socialised large breed. Seriously, let me just ask you this, we have already gone through size differences; What is your opinion on age difference between two dogs? same size. Say one is 18 months old and the other is 6 months.

I am very sorry Staffy Dave, my mistake, responded to the wrong post I agree with what you have written re large or small dog owners. I have only ever had one small breed (and he is an incredible little bloke who holds my heart in his paws) I have always have had medium/large breeds since a little kid. Care needs to be taken re size difference when introducing unknown dogs. I do not agree with smalls banging on toward any size or breed, though a small dog barking and even an unsocial small breed should not equate to a serious attack IMO.

I understand you very well. What part of dog killed by other dog for whatever reason = wrong don't you understand? Yes you do Sheridan. He on the other hand will never get it!

Such a beautiful tribute for a clearly adored and treasured little boy. Charlie is blessed to have such a devoted Mum and Dad. What an incredible life you have shared. I am so sorry for your loss, run free Charlie and watch over your family My thoughts are with you and your family xxx

I have met plenty of small dogs that quite happily meet and greet my dog without issue. It's not simply a small dog thing, it's a lack of socialisation and training by owners who think their little fluffball can do no wrong and has the right to do whatever it pleases. Sounds to me like you're trying to justify your small dog acting aggressively toward other dogs? Oh please, my small breed has been used in temp testing endless dogs. My small breed will correct my large breed at times and the huge lump rolls over on her back for him. I have done endless intros with unknown dogs, care needs to be taken with size differences. A small breed may correct (appropriately)a larger breed, a dominant, pushy or bouncy dog. They are within their rights to do so. That should not equate to a serious attack on another dog. If my small breed was with me when we were attacked by three unknown dogs he would not have stood a chance. It was an unprovoked attack. My Bull Arab was completely neutral and did just as I asked her to. Those three dogs should be euthed and if I ever find them, they will be.

Thanks so much guys :) I find this really interesting! I am familiar with different drives, though it is great to identify them. I have learnt mostly (hands on) temp testing an endless number of dogs at my local pound. The dogs taught me an enormous amount, Very good teachers :laugh: I have three dogs. Bella my Kelpie is brilliant at hearding, I love watching her herd our chooks and ducks each evening (I am with her) she has never, ever attempted to touch the chooks. She also loves watching the horses, Bella is brilliant with horses. Both Bellas parents were in work, we were blessed to find such a good breeder. Billy my Fox Terrier is fantastic at catching rats and mice, he will find a nest and not stop until he has every one of them. Fern my Bull Arab has great prey drive, she has caught rabbits, I would not ever trust her with cats though she is fantastic with dogs of all sizes. All three have fantastic temperaments and are brilliant with people and children. Thank you very much for the links, GM Thank you I will do a search and some reading :)

Given that we are all interpreting your posts the same way, perhaps the issue is in the delivery rather than the interpretation. "did their little fluffball yap and carry on toward the larger dog first or was it as portrayed, a completely unprovoked attack? Unfortunately we're never likely to know!" I've been accused of all sorts of things in this thread. I've been accused of suggesting that a small dog yapping at a larger dog somehow justified the small dog getting ripped to shreds. I look forward to someone showing me where I said that - not some ridiculous extrapolation of what i've said, what i actually said! The 'ridiculous extrapolation' that you so kindly quoted again above was a direct quote from you. I've bolded it for your easy reference. You suggested that the fault might lie with the little dog's actions, and then were incredibly rude and insensitive to small dog owners, basically suggesting everyone should 'control their yapping little shits.' That one's NOT a direct quote, but I can't be bothered going back and searching seven pages for more of your posts for the one I refer to. I can't believe that with all of these people telling you how unreasonable your posts are coming across in this thread, that it doesn't occur to you that there may be some merit to what we say. Where did I say that a little dog yapping and carrying on JUSTIFIED an attack? I was simply questioning whether there might be a little more to the story, I don't believe provocation is a justiable excuse for the outcome but it would go a long way to explaining what happened. As far as offending owners of little dogs, if you own a little dog and it likes to go aggressively yapping at other dogs then I do hope you were offended and you might take something from what i've said. If you own a little dog that doesn't go aggressively yapping at other dogs then you have no reason to be offended!!! I'm absolutely sick of owners of little dogs who allow their dogs to provoke other dogs - I see it all the time, luckily the park/beach i go to daily is generally populated by well trained dogs, but I can imagine it's only a matter of time before someones dog who isn't as well trained and socialised as my own reacts to a little yapper and well the outcome could quickly become tragic like this one. And I couldn't give a rodents rectum how many people jump into your little yapping pack accusing me of anything and everything. Not one accusation holds water with what I actually said! I agree, especially when the owners of these dogs think it's cute & do nothing to stop them. Irresponsible owners have all size dogs, but I am sick of the big dogs always getting the blame, just because of their size. Everyone feels sorry for the small dog, even if it was the one who started it. Oh please. You KNOW your OWN dogs. If you dont then you are setting your dogs up for failure. I have only had large breed dogs during my entire life, Billy is the one and only small breed I have ever owned. Billy is now 9 years old. Ever heard of size difference and the impact that has upon smaller breeds when they meet unknown dogs? Shock horror!!!!!!! Responsible dog owners keep the difference between large and small breeds in mind when introducing unknown dogs. Everyone knows that right?

Thank you :) My limited experience shows a complete difference between chasing a cat or bunny and aggression issues. I have a dog who will chase and has killed rabbits in our paddock though she is perfect with my children and with visitors. Is there proof or evidence that a dog who picks up a wild bunny in drive will also attack a child?

I am doing some research into Prey Drive, esspecially with small animals. Some Greyhounds at HP were good with little dogs though did show interest in the cats (different levels of interest). Many were great with cats :) There were many breeds/crosses who showed interest in cats. I know a bit about prey drive though am no expert! Overheard a comment the other day stating that a dog (who had picked up a cat) and injured them (not a mark on the cat) was vicious and could do the same to a person, other dogs etc. The comments shocked me. I don't agree, though I only have a pretty basic understanding of prey drive. Any great links etc would be appreciated along with your views. Thank you in advance :)