mumof3

Hi boxerfamily, Sorry to hear about your situation. I am also a Mum, with three young kids. I think you need to address two issues. Family counselling / child psychologist can help to determine if your daughters fears are a phobia or a learnt habit / behaviour issue (and I am in now way implying that the fear is not genuine), and make some useful suggestions about managing your daughters behaviour and fear. Secondly professional trainer can help you to get that pup right under control, so that the pup can be controlled by your daughter when she is ready and by the other children. You can look at issues like jumping up, bite innhibition etc. In the mean time, I think you should avoid (I'm sure you will) putting your daughter in any situation which triggers her fear. Be proactive in preventing the fear response, and don't make any big deal about it. If she does become afraid, remove the problem with as little attention / reassurance as possible and carry on as if nothing had happened. You should spend time yourself, playing with the boys and the puppy, teaching games and enjoying yourselves in her view, without making any suggestion at all that she join you. Perhaps a trainer could reccommend some obedience type games for you to play with the boys and the puppy. I think a boxer is a lovely family dog and the type of dog is not to blame for this problem. The problem is an irrational fear, or an ingrained habit of fear, or a learnt behaviour of fear = cuddles / reassurance. This is not judgement at all on your parenting skills - just a perspective and a few ideas from someone who knows very little about your family. I happen to think that these problems (habits, learnt negative behaviours) are extremely common, and it is only excellent parents like yourselves that go searching for answers. I'm sure with the right support, you can solve this problem and the family can continue to enjoy your lovely boxer puppy.

Thanks for the great opinions. Everyone has had something really useful and constructive to say. I'm leaning towards using myself as a reward in the first instance, being flexible in my approach so that I try other rewards too and decide what works best for the dog. I feel confident of teaching sit, stay, heel, behind, come, stop without food rewards, but may resort to food rewards for less familiar commands like roll over, speak. I am likely to only use external rewards in the teaching phase though (and then maybe occassionally). I agree that you shouldn't have to carry rewards around with you. I will also spend some food reward based training time with my children so that the puppy learns to come, sit, lie and roll over for the kids, and the kids learn appropriate ways of dealing with behaviour like jumping up or biting. My kids are 5 and 3 (and a baby who is nearly 1 but won't be old enough yet to ask the puppy to sit etc), so I think it is important to train them as well as train the puppy. I've absolutely no problem being very enthusiastic - we are very clear in our body language and our dogs always know if they are making us happy or sad. It doesn't take long before a dog knows what "good dog" means. I will be looking for good obedience type games to play with the kids, to get everybody off on the right foot. Thanks again

I think that this is key. In my opinion, when you shell out for a purebred dog, what you are paying for is the breeders knowhow, both in breeding the dog, and the lifetime of support they offer you. When you consider all that you get for the price, a registered purebred dog from an excellent and amicable breeder is terrific value for money.

....when while trying to stalk pigeons in short grass he squints and blinks his eyes so they can't seem him properly.

brittany kelpie border collie ACD Miniature Fox Terrier boxer lab german shep beagle golden retriever and one of those goat retrievers

every chemical product has an msds (material safety data sheet). You can get detailed information from the msds for individual products. You should be able to get msdss from your supplier. Also try looking up organic control methods for the weeds.

kelpie (perhaps from pound / rescue) border collie might be too hairy but otherwise seems to fit your description well whippet (apparantly an excellent pet) greyhound boxer Brittany - this is what I'm getting. Puppy or adult? If you'd consider an adult, go to the local shelter and see what takes your fancy. You might be surprised.

I wonder how a person becomes a "behaviourist", or even a "qualified" dog trainer. What are the qualifications?

This is an interesting thread. I think the point should be made that when a show is marketed to the gp, like on tv or something, the gp is given the impression that this is somewhere they can come and see the animals, and probably pat them too. Parents take their kids to shows for the rides, the day out and to look at and pat the animals - broaden their horizons so to speak. Now because I was brought up to have manners, and I try to bring my kids up to have manners too, and because I would never allow my children to pat a strange dog without the owners approval, I don't think that I would be one of those members of the gp upsetting the exhibitors. Of course, I understand that exhibitors don't go to the show so their dogs / horses whatever can get a pat. But that's why the gp go. It's not fun for kids just to look. They like to pat. This is why petting zoos are so popular. I think the complaints in this thread that the show people are making are very valid. I also think that if shows are going to be marketed to the general public as a family day out, then consideration needs to be given to meeting the needs / expectations of those families. Petting zoos are one way to go(though I've certainly seen some pretty dismal ones), and are something that our local show does. Kids don't care if they are petting a prize ram, or a poddy sheep - it is the same to a kid. Same with dogs, one fluffy dog, one big dog, is the same as the next. Perhaps the line should be "don't pat the competition animals - if you want to pat something go to xyz place". Perhaps shows are also an opportunity for breed societies to educate the public about their breed - by having a stand or something where people can have a pat (with permission), and talk to someone about the breed. The gp don't often realise that exhibitors may be feeling a bit of pressure and it just might not be a good time to pat the dogs or have a yard. The show society should give some thought, though, to finding the right time, place and animals for a yarn and a pat, or they should stop encouraging the gp to attend.

Experience, good observational skills(to read the animal, the environment, the owners, everything), education / training, the ability to be an authoritative, consistent, reliable, trustworthy, assertive leader without resorting to aggression, and genuine love of the species. The very best and most famous "whisperers" are also excellent at communicating with people and may have excellent marketing skills to boot. Pat Parelli comes to mind in horses, who has excellent skills, both as a horseman, a businessman and a marketer. I was called a horse whisperer once when I rescued a brumby foal of about 6 months without a rope. It was perishing next to the body of its mother and I was able to get it to follow me (and the horse I was riding) to water, where it stayed for about 3 days, just drinking). I didn't use any ropes. Everyone started calling me Monty, and they called the horse whatever that horse was called in that movie (can't remember), but I said it was a load of bull and I renamed it Lucky, then it got run over by a truck 6 months later - but it lived) For someone to make a living out of training animals, for other people, they really need to be good at observing and communicating with both the animals and their owners. There are lots of talented animal people out there who simply don't have the people skills. I know one very capable and shy horseman. I went to a working dog school once with one of Australia's leading trainers, and found he couldn't talk to a group of people. A much less experienced man gave a much better school and we learnt alot more.

Ha ha, excellent work! Great to get a Brittany persons perspective thanks Helen. I think it may have been you that provided a link to Dr Ian Dunbar ebook, which I have been reading. He says it is vitally important to know how to train your puppy before it comes home. As I know that a dog can only ever be what you make it, and that it is so important to know the developmental time lines and bear them in mind, I've really taken his advice on board and am seeking to fill the gaps of my knowledge, converting from working dogs to a pet. There are so many new and different things to teach a pet. Like not to jump up, or toilet in the house. Working dogs live outside, and are not generally taught manners. The idea of using food rewards seemed like a shortcut or bribery for people who didn't know how to be the leader of the pack, but now makes sense as a valid training technique. So thank you all for clearing up my understanding. I'd be interested to know if other working type dogs are trained using food rewards. Dogs like working guide dogs, assistance dogs and police and customs type dogs. I guess I'll organise some food rewards after all.

Thanks for the responses. I think the point that the working dog breeds were bred to love the work and that the work itself is a reward is an excellent point. How very true. Perhaps that takes me to the point that if you are training a dog to do things that it instinctively wants to do, you won't need the food. If, however, you are going to go against or outside their instincts, you are going to have to find another way to increase their desire to do what you want them to do. The other excellent point is that dogs are individuals and you really just have to find out what works for you and your dog. My puppy will be a Brittany, which has a pretty strong desire to please the master. Hopefully for the most case, my pleasure in her obedience will be a good motivator for her. There is always food, and play as additional motivators. cheers

I've a background in working cattle dogs. Collie and kelpie crosses with a splash of ACD mostly. We've bred, raised and trained our own dogs in the past and they have become important members of our team. We have largely used the Scott Lithgow method of training pups. This method is based upon positive reinforcement. The reward for the obedient dog is your (the owners) pleasure and attention. Much time, effort and knowledge of dog and pack psychology is used to ensure that the handler is the leader and that the dogs look up to, trust, follow instinctively and adore the handler. Food rewards are not used. Punishment is used but positive reinforcement is much preferred. Punishment, when necessary must follow the "growl and snap" type assertiveness that dogs use in establishing their authority amongst themselves. Punishment may range from a deep growling voice, perhaps accompanied by some sort of assertive body language and may run to holding and shaking the dog by the scruff of the neck for an extremely harsh punishment (like for biting a child). We've never needed the harsh punishment as our dogs were always very keen to please us. We have trained our dogs to do all the things that working dogs do, which requires a good level of obedience, including directing a dog where to go, when to stop or go faster, when to put more or less pressure on stock etc etc. Dogs must also be controllable in the heat of the moment. Ultimately the dogs learn to read the handler's body language and read the situation and will work largely independently, or may be given a job which they carry out on their own (like working a particular part of the mob, or a particular yard). Now working dogs are largely in our past and we are excitedly awaiting the arrival of our first pet dog, a Brittany puppy. I've been reading about training methods and find an enormous reliance upon food rewards. I'm wondering why, if we could train our working dogs to obey us simply because it brought them pleasure to do so, why should we use food rewards for our pet dog? Perhaps we should stick with what we know? What are the advantages of food rewards over emotional rewards?

Lindainfa - what a beautiful little puppy! I think I am more excited than the kids. I keep telling myself this is the kids dog, and I know they will love having a dog, but I'm the one who's all excited. I guess they are too young to stay excited about something for 6 months. Yes, Brittanies are beautiful dogs, and while temperament, size and coat type were the reasons I chose the Brittany breed, I could never have chosen a dog who I didn't love the look of. I just fell in love with them. The whippet was highly reccommended to me as being suitable for our family, and on paper, I'd say, yes, it would be an excellent choice, but I just didn't fall in love with them like I did the Brittany. Yes, another countdown. This buying a pedigreed purebred puppy is a lesson in patience for me! I'm sure it is going to be very worth while. S

Hello Puppy people. My puppy has been born! Yay! Only 8 weeks to go..... She is a Brittany from an excellent and lovely breeder. I'm just so darn excited.

No, Plus, I think that is just mean. Perhaps the dog could hand out something else. Like beer. Now that's a trick.

perhaps consider the location. Some breeds are more common in certain locations. Where I live, there are lots of working dogs. Looks to me kelpie x border collie, perhaps with a spash of foxie and or ACD. I agree, prob not F1 cross, but a good mix of your locally common breeds.

Voloclydes answer sounds knowledgeable and practical. You have to get that baby removed. I wouldn't hesitate to call the police. I wish I had more faith in the system to see her into a permament loving forever home like we would expect to happen for a dog, but I fear that the birth parents have many rights, including the right to try again to be a parent if they feel like it. It would be ideal if the birth mother and father could be convinced to offer the baby up for adoption, then perhaps she would get a real home. Stories like this make me hug my kids tight. Babies need not only safety, but love and the constant care and love of only a few people. I really hope this baby can be removed from harm and placed into loving care.

You silly duffer...

Ute with canopy. You can have canopies fitted with whirlies or other air inducting type things, though be aware that air conditioning will not get to the canopied section, which might not matter, depending where you live. You can also have custom dog boxes made and fitted to both well back and tray back style utitilies. These are a popular option for people competing with working dog trials.

I don't really think a lab, golden or boxer could be considered small-medium. There are some smaller labs and goldens out there but they would be medium-large dogs imo. A brittany is a good suggestion though. I also don't think a border collie would be that suitable as they can't really last on 30 mins of exercise a day. I know, they are not really small - medium sized. Personally, I don't subscribe to the theory that small breeds are better with small kids. I think gentle nature is more important than size - but that's just me. I'd have a golden around my baby in a flash (depending upon the dog). They have a gentle mouth, and are intelligent and aware of their bodies. They are highly rated as being one of the best breeds for young kids. I'd sooner the nice big gentle dog any day. I don't much like little dogs, it having been my personal experience that they tend to be a little more jumpy, scratchy and even mouthy and can quickly bowl kids over by running near or under them. It is probably wrong of me to push my own preference onto the OP. She did make it quite clear that she wanted a smal to medium dog, so I apologise. I don't think anyone else does either. Jumping, scratching and mouthing are all undesireable behaviours that need to be trained out. Any size dog can exhibit them. You are of course right. I've probably mostly only known small dog owners who have not done this training with their dogs. Compared to large dog owners that I have known, who have done this training. I think perhaps many smally dog owners who don't have small kids kind of think it is cute when their small dog acts a litte feral - so pretty much all of the small dogs I've ever met haven't had any manners. Most of the large dog's I've known have been either hunting dogs or working dogs or golden retrievers and for one reason or another these dogs haven't jumped up or mouthed etc. Perhaps small dogs jump up more because they get a pat that way, whereas the large dog just has to stick his nose in your crotch

I don't really think a lab, golden or boxer could be considered small-medium. There are some smaller labs and goldens out there but they would be medium-large dogs imo. A brittany is a good suggestion though. I also don't think a border collie would be that suitable as they can't really last on 30 mins of exercise a day. I know, they are not really small - medium sized. Personally, I don't subscribe to the theory that small breeds are better with small kids. I think gentle nature is more important than size - but that's just me. I'd have a golden around my baby in a flash (depending upon the dog). They have a gentle mouth, and are intelligent and aware of their bodies. They are highly rated as being one of the best breeds for young kids. I'd sooner the nice big gentle dog any day. I don't much like little dogs, it having been my personal experience that they tend to be a little more jumpy, scratchy and even mouthy and can quickly bowl kids over by running near or under them. It is probably wrong of me to push my own preference onto the OP. She did make it quite clear that she wanted a smal to medium dog, so I apologise.

golden retriever , lab or brittany. Maybe boxer.

Hi Italmum, I'm so sorry it didn't work out. Hugs S

I'm preparing for the arrival of our first pet dog. Before now we have had only working dogs. BC's kelpies and blue cattles and a fair variety of crosses of these breeds. We have trained our own working dogs and even got involved in some low level cattle trailing. We are comfortable with training sit, stop, stay, behind, come, push up, over, by. We have never used anything but praise as a reward. We are also comfortable with how to be the leader of the pack. This whole pet scenario thing is a new one on us, and I believe that dogs are happiest when they have a clear position and role to play in their pack. They love to do things for you. I'd like to teach our pup to put away the kids toys. Our puppy will be a Brittany (gun dog breed). I would love some advice on what training would need to occur before teaching the dog to put toys which are strewn around the living room into the toy box, how to actually train a dog to do this and at what age a dog might be able to start learning this. This is just a good fun helpful thing the pup could learn to do. It is a training opportunity that is there at the right time of day for me (when the kids have gone to bed). It'd be great to have a pup that not only eats the scraps from under the table after tea, but then goes and puts all the toys away and lastly curls up on the lounge for a cuddle, having done its work for the day. After it has mastered all that I'll find out how to get it to fold the washing All advice on helping a working dog person convert to pet ownership gratefully received.