PetSitters

I have a dog aggressive dog, if she ever attacked a dog, i would blame me - not her. My options: have her PTS or keep her and keep her and others safe. I am aware of her problems and it is my choice to keep her, so it is my job to keep her safe from other dogs. I know what she can and can not handle and will never put her in the position where she feels threatened by another dog. I dont believe the problems that are being talked about have anything to do with the dog, it is the OWNER. All of us who own dogs should know what they can and can not cope with and all of us should do everything we can to keep them safe. If i could not handle my girl I would have had her PTS, no questions asked. As should anyone who can not handle the problems that their dogs have. My boy can get a bit freaked out in crowds, if i am dumb enough to let him into that situation than how is that his fault? Sadly I can not see things changing anytime soon, people are becoming more and more scared of bull breeds and it breaks my heart and I really dont know what the answer is to fix it. Why would you even think of putting your girl to sleep just because she's DA, the problem is many people including vets seem to think that DA dogs are dangerous. GSD's are DA,but that doesn't stop them being wonderful loyal family pets. I know what mine are like so I keep them on a short lead, but it's the moron owners in this world who are the real problem. I was sitting at the vets a few years ago with my GSD boy when this fool walks in and lets their dog run strait over to my boy who nearly ate this dog and the vet told me to go outside. Another time at the same vets I was sitting with my Rottie who is not DA, when another moron comes in and you guessed it let their dog jump on my Rottie who growled and snapped at this dog and this stupid woman called my girl dangerous. I have never seen DA as a problem,but I have seen many irresponsible owners so please don't blame your dogs. :D Poorly bred GSD's can be DA, but good GSD's aren't DA in the slightest. Who the morons are IMHO in regard to DA GSD's are the people who breed them, a testament that they shouldn't be breeding GSD until they know what they are doing? I agree. GSDs with the correct temperament (and adequately socialised and trained) will not be dog aggressive and will not 'nearly eat' another dog that approaches it while it is on lead with its owner in a public place. A dog like that should be kept away from places where other dogs are likely to approach them, unless they are muzzled or prevented from being able to bite. No wonder we have breed prejudice against this breed when some owners are so accepting of their dog's OTT aggression and blame anybody but themselves when their dog is upset by a situation they have placed it in. In any breed you can get DA examples, but the type and threshold of DA is determined largely by genetics, and some breeds contain many more examples of DA dogs than others. Breeding DA dogs and selling them as pets is irresponsible. It is good to see owners like Teebs understand their dog and go to considerable personal effort to ensure it stays out of trouble. One of my GSD's is both DA & HA and enquiring with the breeder why my dog is like this, the reason I was given for the aggressive behaviour was the belief that GSD's are a guardian breed, it's how a good GSD is supposed to be and his aggressive displays are caused by mismanagement on my part and incorrect raising, much the same reasoning Tarope has told us again from an experienced GSDL member and breeder? These people are supposed to be the GSD experts with experience in the breed who accept DA & HA dogs as a well bred example with good traits that need to be managed with choker chains and compulsive training with open displays of aggression being the owners fault?. I had a highly experienced working dog trainer and breeder assess my dog's behaviour who told me that my dog was no good and had a major temperament fault and in his opinion caused by breeding dogs that should never had been bred and critiqued my dog as a very poor example of the breed to be desexed and "never" bred. My second GSD is a working line Shepherd bred for temperament and performance in working roles from a line of extremely hard dogs and the dog is calm and confident, not the slightest bit DA or HA and on my part, there was no more management measures put into place raising this dog than raising a friendly Golden Retriever in terms of necessity to stem aggressive traits simply because a good GSD shouldn't have any active display of aggression unless threatened or provoked. It's an absolute misconception that working breeds like the GSD that can be trained in protection roles should be actively aggressive or be accepted that aggression is part of the breed. Active aggression in the breed is a faulty temperament and weak nerve, regardless of what the GSDL excuses aggression as, it's up to the owners of GSD's like this to collar the breeders and ask them what the hell they are breeding? There are too many GSD's bred with poor temperaments and too many excuses and cover up's for aggressive behaviour passing the buck back onto the owners for mismanagement of dogs who are genetically flawed from birth.

I have a dog aggressive dog, if she ever attacked a dog, i would blame me - not her. My options: have her PTS or keep her and keep her and others safe. I am aware of her problems and it is my choice to keep her, so it is my job to keep her safe from other dogs. I know what she can and can not handle and will never put her in the position where she feels threatened by another dog. I dont believe the problems that are being talked about have anything to do with the dog, it is the OWNER. All of us who own dogs should know what they can and can not cope with and all of us should do everything we can to keep them safe. If i could not handle my girl I would have had her PTS, no questions asked. As should anyone who can not handle the problems that their dogs have. My boy can get a bit freaked out in crowds, if i am dumb enough to let him into that situation than how is that his fault? Sadly I can not see things changing anytime soon, people are becoming more and more scared of bull breeds and it breaks my heart and I really dont know what the answer is to fix it. Why would you even think of putting your girl to sleep just because she's DA, the problem is many people including vets seem to think that DA dogs are dangerous. GSD's are DA,but that doesn't stop them being wonderful loyal family pets. I know what mine are like so I keep them on a short lead, but it's the moron owners in this world who are the real problem. I was sitting at the vets a few years ago with my GSD boy when this fool walks in and lets their dog run strait over to my boy who nearly ate this dog and the vet told me to go outside. Another time at the same vets I was sitting with my Rottie who is not DA, when another moron comes in and you guessed it let their dog jump on my Rottie who growled and snapped at this dog and this stupid woman called my girl dangerous. I have never seen DA as a problem,but I have seen many irresponsible owners so please don't blame your dogs. :D Poorly bred GSD's can be DA, but good GSD's aren't DA in the slightest. Who the morons are IMHO in regard to DA GSD's are the people who breed them, a testament that they shouldn't be breeding GSD until they know what they are doing?

I have a dog aggressive dog, if she ever attacked a dog, i would blame me - not her. My options: have her PTS or keep her and keep her and others safe. I am aware of her problems and it is my choice to keep her, so it is my job to keep her safe from other dogs. I know what she can and can not handle and will never put her in the position where she feels threatened by another dog. I dont believe the problems that are being talked about have anything to do with the dog, it is the OWNER. All of us who own dogs should know what they can and can not cope with and all of us should do everything we can to keep them safe. If i could not handle my girl I would have had her PTS, no questions asked. As should anyone who can not handle the problems that their dogs have. My boy can get a bit freaked out in crowds, if i am dumb enough to let him into that situation than how is that his fault? Sadly I can not see things changing anytime soon, people are becoming more and more scared of bull breeds and it breaks my heart and I really dont know what the answer is to fix it. What I am saying is, a lot of these dogs are of unstable temperaments and are poor pet quality which needs to be taken into account. There are plenty of irresponsible owners of good natured dogs that are not DA or HA and don't pose a threat although they lack training and responsible manangement. Yes it is the owners fault allowing an aggressive natured dog to become involved in an incident I agree totally, but the point I am making, is the dog isn't a lovely dog corrupted by poor management, it's a dog unsuitable for a pet environment in the hands of the irresponsible acting on it's genetic tendencies.

Belonging to 2 clubs Is not going to be a great representation of what you're claiming In your your statement! Given the number of actual training clubs around etc ETA: Yes too many bogans are attracted to the bull breeds for the wrong reasons I will not dispute that fact, but at the end of the day It shouldn't be the dogs that always pay the price In the end. I agree totally with you - I'm not in any way trying to say that all of the bully breeds are bad, because I know they are not. I was giving an observation from the two clubs I belong to and there is a high population where I live with bully breeds yet I rarely see any in the classes. Then I suppose the bogans out there attracted to these breeds are not going to do the responsible thing are they?? There are lots of gsds, rotties, dobes, crossbreeds in the clubs I belong to. It would be nice to see more people with bully breeds joining in. When I visit dog parks, the dogs that seem to have the issues are the bully breeds, not with people, but with other dogs, the dogs that are shown in the media as attacking people, are generally bully breeds. If the attack was from a rottie or dobe, then they would say it and report it as such, just as they did recently with a golden that attacked a member of its own family and neighbour. I understand what it is like to have a breed of dog that is often discriminated against due to poor understanding etc. However the general public doesn't care what type of dog it was really, they just want something done about it. I agree with you that it will always be the dog that pays the price due to its moronic owner not doing the right thing in the first place. But do you really know what It's like? One can only take so much when you come across comments that pretty much translate to "Shouldn't they all be dead by now?" Yes there are "problem" dogs but they're not human and they rely on us for guidance, when It isn't given and the dog reacts It's so much easier Isn't It to just kill the dog and move on...........Is that really solving the problem? Until this Is fixed nothing Is going to change. The general public does care about what type of dog It Is otherwise the media etc wouldn't be so hell bent on naming breeds even when they're so way off the mark on most and really haven't got a clue!, as It Is "they" the general public already been led to believe that they're safe now thanks to BSL In place! I will always blame the owner not the dog In pretty much most attack cases You can blame the owner for mismanagement of an unstable dog, but it's the dog who attacks and why is the dog attacking, weak nearve, poor temperament, fear biter? Good stable dogs don't attack for no reason and neither do good stable dogs need precision management, so in my opinion, if you need to go to great lengths in socialisation, training and precision management to prevent a dog attacking, that dog isn't a good stable dog by any stretch of the imagination.

Bull Terrier is mentioned in the news video on the orginal link at about 1:22 and onwards talking about "a 55 year old woman was attacked, AGAIN by a Bull Terrier" People seem to have the impression that only attacks featuring Bull breeds are sensationalised by the media but I don't agree that is the case. I think any attacks of enough severity to mentioned are reported by the media but just so happens that most of the more serious attacks are from Bull breeds of some description. They may not technically be APBT's or Staffords or Bull Terriers, but they are not GSD's or Dobermann they are calling Pitbulls, they are of Bull breed orientation, so if that's the type of dog involved in the attacks there is no other option than accepting it I guess?

Did you know Koe, that desexing a fear aggressive dog can make them worse creating unpredictability and skittish behaviour?

The import of them is banned, approx 15 years ago. So really how many 'pure bred' Pit Bulls are left? As even then many were not the real thing. That's a good question? I have seen quite a few dogs over the years people have claimed to be a genuine APBT and have also known BYB's to sell Staffy X's as APBT's? People who think they own an APBT, I wonder how many of those dogs are genuine? The last one I saw claimed to be an APBT by the owner had distictive Rotty colouring looked more like a Rotty/Stafford X The APBT comes In many different colours, such as a Black and Tan colouring, whom to people who don't know the breed can just as easily mistake as a Rotty x Staff The point I am making is, all the people I know with supposed APBT's except for one of these people, don't know the breed anyway and buy the dog because the seller/breeder says it's an APBT? I am thinking of you gathered together 100 supposed APBT's and examined them properly, how many real one's would surface, my guess is the majority would be cross breeds with APBT simliarity?

The import of them is banned, approx 15 years ago. So really how many 'pure bred' Pit Bulls are left? As even then many were not the real thing. That's a good question? I have seen quite a few dogs over the years people have claimed to be a genuine APBT and have also known BYB's to sell Staffy X's as APBT's? People who think they own an APBT, I wonder how many of those dogs are genuine? The last one I saw claimed to be an APBT by the owner had distictive Rotty colouring looked more like a Rotty/Stafford X

There is no such breed as a "Pitbull" anyway, perhaps it's a term given for a dog of Bull breed origin that bites someone? The media doesn't report them APBT's or Amstaff's, it's just "Pitbull" which could mean anything really?

Where they tied up or not? And if they were then why get yourself and your child close enough to be "attacked"? MW don't you know, if it's got a big head or a red nose it's a pitbull for sure... These were tied up and broke away which is a management error on the owners part. But a tethered dog is no threat and people need to leave them alone IMHO

Yes, I walk many dogs that I don't know how they deal with kids and intervene as a standard practice, never allowing kids to pat them or get too close. Sometimes I feel like a bit of a meanie not letting kids have a pat, but there is no way I will have dogs in my care biting people and don't need that experience in my life.

This situation is complete human error and the child pays for his mother's stupidity. She should have been teaching her little boy to leave other people's dogs alone, instead she encourages interaction get's her child bitten then wants the dog PTS.

Ish, I have never seen in the breed standards that the GSD shall be a competitive show dog. It does say they shall be a companion animal to a protection dog and anything in between, can these competitive show dog's achieve this, if not, what are they exactly?

But there are bad owners in many common breeds, yet not all common breeds have been mentioned in this thread... Bad owners do create breed prejudice with poor management of dogs suffering temperament flaws, but bad owners of dogs with stable temperaments don't create breed prejudice in terms of wariness and fear, so is it really the owners or the dog?.

It's good that the GSDL teach people how to raise dogs of unstable nerve as a standard protocol, so why don't they teach breeders how not to breed them and strike dogs like this off never to be bred instead of awarding them champion status?

How on earth can you possibly make an assessment like that on a dog you have never even seen? ETA: I completely agree with those who have said they couldn't ethically rehome an aggressive dog. But whilst we can guess about the extent of this dog's behaviourial issues, none of us can know how bad it is without actually seeing the dog. The cause of most aggressive "behavioural issues" are genetic, it's either in the dog or it isn't and although behaviour can be modified in training and management, genetics can't be fixed unfortunately.

Although you can modify a dog's behaviour which sometimes turns out good, dog's like this are a constant struggle and require constant supervision and as harsh as it sounds I tend to agree with dancinbcs unfortunately

I own a GSD similar to the one's Poodlemum describes Tarope and he's not a BYB either rather from a line of successful show dogs and although being a GSD person myself it's sad to say that the character of my dog to be honest is bloody aweful to say the least I am not the only one who owns or have seen GSD's like mine and the reason these dogs are like that in my opinion is caused by the breeding of dogs that shouldn't have been bred for show ribbon potential as the breeding priority over temperament and stability. I have also a GSD bred for temperament and stability from working lines and there is no comparison between a confident hard nerved GSD and a fear biter owning one of each let me tell you ;)

How do you determine this? Defence is a behaviour in my opinion between fight and flight and some breeds are biased towards fight as a necessity when trained in particular working roles for example, you can train a Standard Poodle or Labrador to bite a sleeve in prey drive, but under pressure in the fight they lack the genetic gameness to remain in defence drive and punch on so to speak and will retreat when the pressure rises, a reason they don't use Labrador's as defence dogs in working roles. Other breeds have a genetic bias for the elevation of aggression under pressure, like the GSD, Rottwieler etc along with a high pain threshold keeps some breeds in the fight longer than others. It's my experience if you get a bit of nerve weakness in these breeds coupled with a bias towards aggression elevation under pressure results in the aggressive lunger or a dog that will fight to reduce stress and on the loose can be dangerous dogs to encounter. Good examples of the breeds I mentioned with sound nerve structure are fine, but not all a fine examples unfortunately which often results in reactive aggression when a nerve imbalance exits in the breeding.

Speaking as a previous owner of an aggressive dog, no I would not. I'd feel furious that the other owner's negligence had probably put back my dog's training and rehabilitation by weeks if not months. my point was that the case did not involve owner's negligence not much point me arguing the case though when you view the world as you do The owner is responsible for their dogs actions even if it was an accident or unintentional. If a dog slipped it's collar or broke a leash fastner and bit someone with the incident reported, you don't get excused because the incident was an accident, the dog is either under effective control or it isn't and if the dog gets away from you and gets into strife, you have failed your ownership obligation is how it's formally viewed. It's only in extreme circumstances with well witnessed evidence of wrong doing will charges be laid against a leashed dog and owner against an unleashed dog even at an off leash area and if a dog is on leash handled by an adult regardless of what it did, it's 99% safe in avoiding a prosecution of negligence.

I always choose a male for myself, prefer boys and don't desex them on the basis that If can't contain an entire male appropriately to prevent accidental matings and train my dogs effectively to avoid the supposed entire male poor behaviours, I shouldn't own a dog, for me personally is how I view the situation and believe that hormones play a greater part in a dog's growth and development both physically and mentally than purely for reproduction. The decision to desex in my opinion should be the owners choice which best suits their situation.

Prejudice and wariness are two different things but often mis interpreted and the same thing. I am wary of breeds in an off leash roaming situation that can be predisposed with fighting drive coupled with nerve weakness, GSD's, Bull breeds, Rottweilers, Akitas, Dobermann, Cattle dogs to name a few, but I am not breed prejudice or dislike them, quite the opposite infact. It's breeds that can stand up to pressure if they are short on nerve and will fight instead of flight are the breeds I am most wary of in a stranger situation which I don't think wariness should be taken for prejudice, to me they are different meanings.

I disagree with DA dogs needing a muzzle to protect the dogs of owners who break the law allowing their dogs to roam off leash. I have that said to me on a couple of occassions when one of mine has cranked up on an unleashed dog and asking them why their dog is off leash in relation to the laws, they have a go at me because mine cranked up suggesting I should muzzle him? Why should I muzzle him, we are on leash minding our own business then an off leash dog runs at us owned by people who can't control their dog off leash and breaking the law, and it's my dog's behaviour than needs addressing putting their dog at risk of getting bitten Not that I would allow my dog to bite another dog off leash or not, if they abided by the laws or could control their dog these incidents wouldn't happen. Mumtoshelley was in a legal off leash area. She was in an off leash area but off leash still means dogs need to be kept under effective control, meaning that you need to have voice control of your dog and be able to prevent it from approaching another dog or person. If a DA dog is secured on leash, even in an off leash area, it should not have to be muzzled because owners of off leash dogs in the area should be abiding by the law and not letting their dogs rush up to other dogs, which I think was PetSitter's point. I am sorry, I didn't realise it was an off leash area, but I would never take my reactive dog into off leash areas where other dogs are around. I don't think off leash areas are a good place for reactive dogs

Dobe's are fairly watered down these days and there are very few lines that have the defence and fighting drives essential for training in working roles, but with breeds that do have defensive traits, all it takes is a breeding a bit short on nerve with a bit too much defence drive and you easily have a reactive dog who can bite. My breed are GSD's and have two of them, one of excellent temperament and one not so good, but there is no way I could demonstrate my better dog to people scared of GSD's as an example how nice they are patting him when if the same people tried to pat my not so good dog he would try and take their hand off?. Not all GSD's have a well balanced temperament as much as I love the breed, I could never condemn anyone or feel prejudice towards someone who is wary of them, not all GSD's are the result of perfect breedings or controlled and managed effectively by every owner and some unfortunately need to be met with caution sad but true.

Me too, one of my greatest prejudices :D