Cosmolo

I would like to see responsible training and control over every piece of training equipment personally. And yes that includes e collars.

Thanks taters- just what i wanted to hear What breed is your dog?

Of course people should be trained before using them. But i also think they should be trained before using headcollars and correction chains too.

Since when did anyone say anything about making e collars available at kmart??? Did you read my story flip and OP- any comments?

I don't assume that everyone knows how to use an e collar- thats why i am a trainer and i teach them. Same as i do with a headcollar, clicker, harness or correction chain!! I ahve seen people mis use every piece of equipment under the sun- including the innocent looking harness- should we not allow them on dogs? Seeing as we're telling a few stories- here's one that may be of interest, i'll try to be brief. We adopted Georgie as an 12 mth old terrified individual- the worst fear i (as well as my OH- a more experienced trainer than i and another trainer with more experience than either of us) have ever seen in any dog ever. This dog was terrified of everything from walking up stairs, noises, movement and particularly people. Treats were useless as she would not eat, she was no more confident when the other dogs were around and panicked easily with no recovery- once she was scared she stayed that way for hours at a time. She had been through a number of other homes, one for over 3 months where they tried to positively resolve her issues with no success- she in fact worsened during this time. So fast forward to now- we have a dog that after alot of hard work, time and effort in training, good leadership AND a correction chain and an e collar (at different times) is vastly improved in every respect. We NEVER could have had her off lead without the e collar (and we don't need it on her now) and if she had never been off lead she would not have built up much of the confidence she now has which gives her a much happier life. I will take the 'easy' way out when it means i can have a dog live a wonderful life with confidence and happiness as Georgie does today. I will be 'lazy' when it means i can ease the stress a dog is feeling by making things clear to them. And i will enjoy my Georgie Porgie who now loves life like we always wanted her to.

Yes, we were all very happy with what we experienced there. Taters- how sore was your dog before Dogs in Motion? Both hips?

A dogs neck is very different from a humans- humans should try an e collar on their thigh to feel the e collar. Have a look for videos from Bart Bellon and see how happy his dogs are. I have never viewed e collars in the same way since attending his seminar- low level stimulus negative reinforcement with good timing and clarity saw a number of unmanageable dogs with other tools become wonder dogs in a very short period of time. He also used an e collar on many parts of his body to show the different sensations and muscle twitches. I have felt an e collar a number of times and i find it no more than mildly uncomfortable when used on the levels i use it on. One of my e collars i can't feel at all until level 16 but one of my dogs works on level 9 and the other on 15. I have used e collars on 2 of my 4 dogs and it would be impossible for anyone to tell which two dogs have had one on and which two have not. And using an electronic bark collar is better than rehoming and/ or death IMO

We went to Dogs in Motion yesterday and have decided to try the underwater treadmill/ swimming/ physio for the next month or two to see how we go. We have strengthening exercises to do at home as well. I was very impressed with how thorough they were and am hoping for good results. Dexter liked it and is going again on Monday

While it absolutely depends on the dog in question, i don't believe in the sometimes blanket rule that you can never apply a correction of some kind to a dog if they are fearful. There are also times when although the behaviour may have started through fear, the dog is no longer fearful and the behaviour has different origins to what it did when the problem was first identified. You may also choose to use your obedience at times when the dog starts to look 'iffy' and correct for non responses to known commands. What option is best though is impossible to say without seeing whats going on What about contacting the behaviourist you have used previously and ask the question?

In my experience this is a common problem- that either exists on its own OR is a residual problem that remains after other aggression issues have been worked through. Impossible to be certain without seeing but a few things that could be happening- - If you used to be nervous and/ or shorten/ tighten lead when passing/ seeing other dogs, the dog may now connect the lead tension with prior feelings of nervousness/ fear/ aggressive responses and it acts as a cue for the aggressive behaviour - Dog feels trapped when lead tension is felt- see this most often when dog agro dogs pull on the lead and behave aggressively but off lead okay. - Dog is confused about what happens next/ no clear command as to when to move on away from other dog. May feel as though she is being corrected if she is a very soft dog and doesn't understand why she can sometimes sniff and is then pulled away.

Is it true that Kintala only accepts certain breeds? Not staffies and rotties?

Agree with BC- this is how we run our classes. A good puppy class should also cover dog body language, common puppy problems etc. We cover training equipment options, health and nutrition and a few other topics depending on time. Is south Melbourne too far? Otherwise contact Four Paws and ask where their puppy classes in the area are.

The vets here won't do the TPO both sides at once. So we have considered the possibility that if his elbows are bad too- we might be looking at 4 lots of surgery and confinement, which i don't think he would deal with The PIN operation sounds similar to the TPO but there are three cuts in the TPO. :D

Its a procedure that aims to destroy the majority of sensory nerves in the hip joint. Its been around for 5 years and the dogs that had it 5 years ago are still pain free. The only disadvantage is that it is unknown what happens after 5 years, but it still leaves the options open for a hip replacement if the pain re appears.

What is the PIN operation?

After an 1hr and 45 minute drive in peak hour we saw Dr Wing Tip yesterday evening. He confirmed the diagnosis but also added that Dexter may have elbow dysplasia as he has soreness in both elbows with no obvious cause, although nothing showed up on x rays He went through the 3 different options- total hip replacement, triple pelvic osteotomy (sp?) and hip denervation. OH and i have discussed at length and have decided to proceed with the hip denervation in combination with physio, glucosamine, ester c etc. We need to consider the possibility that his elbows may need to be done so we are very hesitant to put him through four lots of major surgery and subsequent recovery times. Hip denervation has a recovery time of 3-5 days and both hips can be done in the one surgery. Any thoughts welcome

Has anyone had this procedure done on their dog? If so, what were the results post surgery?

We have an appointment with Dr Wong tomorrow evening and Dogs in Motion next Thursday- fingers crossed

Thank you oceanaussie. We will be making appointments with Dr Wing Tip Wong and Dogs in Motion tomorrow- fingers crossed we can see them soon as this is doing my head in. When i had one of my horses he injured his leg severely, and after thousands of dollars and 3 months of confinement- he never fully recovered physically AND he was lost mentally for good- to the point where i look back now and regret putting him through the surgery and confinement. If i had known then what i know now i wouldn't have done it. I think this experience is colouring my perception here- even though its a different situation, i am so worried about the recovery and the influence on his temperament and life after the surgery. I don't want to make a decision for me that isn't the best for Dexter. Hopefully the information from the physio and Dr Wong will help clear my head!

There are a number of veterinary behaviourists in Melbourne- Dr Debbie Calnon and Robert Holmes to name a few- both of these people are very well respected and recommended by many. You also have the option of qualified behavioural trainers who often have similar levels of experience with such behaviour problems but without the veterinary background. It means that they cannot dispense medication if required (but i liase with the clients existing vet if medication is required) but i find that they often have more flexibility in terms of training techniques/ behavioural modification without the drugs- which should be a last (short term) resort if needed. We do consult in the south eastern suburbs and see dogs with anxiety on a regular basis.

Thanks for the recs for Dr Wong- thats great to hear. Scarlett- do you have other dogs? How did you find the recovery after surgery? How old was your dog when the surgery was done?

Scarletts mum- Dr Wing Tip Wong is the specialist our vet has suggested we talk to- how did you find him to deal with? Did Scarlett have HD in both hips? I would be interested to know which chiro and physio you used too. May i ask how much it was approximately? Feel free to pm if you would prefer. I have heard nothing but good things about Ray and Mark- and may speak to them as well, depending on what we find out from Dr Wong- i'm pretty sure thats who our vet is going to refer us to. Rappie- i don't find the carprophen to have any effect on Dexter whatsoever- we are lessening the dose but i will ask the specialist if we should continue with it at all. Will also ask about his shoulders and whether we should x ray them too- we x rayed his elbows first time round as well as his hips- but not shoulders : ( Dexter is 8 months old and weighs around 28kg at the moment

He looks so lovely newnewf!! Congratulations!!

Perfect- thank you

That sounds really interesting anna- do you know if the natural therapies vet in South Rd Bentleigh does it? I wouldn't know where to start looking if they don't.