Cosmolo

I question whether lots of dogs would be more prone to actual aggression in tests that involve the dog being taken to a calm quiet area- vital for any kind of assessment. I see many dogs who fence fight in their kennels but are very social or simply tolerant when we test them in a quiet enclosed backyard area. A little reactive, shy, stressed- yes- but actual aggression has more foundation than the environmental change in most cases. LP this would probably be good in general discussion too- in the training forum remember you're going to get answers from most people who do a bit more than average as far as training goes.

I know you're not talking to me :D But i think Ness is pretty spot on. There are certain characteristics that some people like that may also increase the propensity for the dog not being a social butterfly. As long as people are made aware of what they are getting, i think there is alot of room on the spectrum of 'friendliness'. I don't think only social butterfliers should pass assessments. Sorry, i find it hard to be quiet when it comes to these kind of topics :D

We test with a confident male first- if the dog is excellent, we do not test with another dog (time constraints) If there is anything of concern at all, we then test with a female. If the dog has a high prey drive, we endeavour to test with a small dog but our capacity to do this can be limited as we don't have a small dog ourselves. I don't like testing with other shelter dogs- a non shelter dog is always preferred. We don't have anything in our protocols that says 'one growl, 4 barks' etc. A dog will score a 4 for growls/ stiffness, a 5 for lunging/ trying to bite etc but is then re tested at the end of the test once we can 'train'. LP- you might be interested in the temp assessment thread i started in dog rescue too. I would be concerned about a puppy showing potentially reactive/ aggressive behaviours but then want to look at other things- has the dog had any training, how sensitive is the dog, how do they respond to pressure from an alpha dog, what is the rest of their assessment telling us. These pups would be made training compulsory and i would want to see them for training and socialisation asap- i have adopted a 12 week old who was reactive to dogs (Dexter- our big black/white boy) and with the right training and socialisation he is now fabulous and in fact, our testing dog. If he had however, gone somewhere where he did not receive socialisation and training, i have no doubt that he would be a dog aggressive 'brat'. The thing with younger dogs is that they have not been practicing the behaviour for as long as the 5 year old. But the real question is how does the dog respond to training? We tested an 8 month old who was almost unhandleable and did not respond well to various forms of training, whereas we ahve had older dogs who despite practicing the behaviour for longer have been SUPER responsive and a real dream to train. No blanket statements here- just individual dogs.

Are we talking about dogs to rehome or dogs already in a home, bonded to family? We conduct dog to dog tests on lead- yes we've been asked about dogs that are only aggressive on lead but given that we use our own dogs and given that we're talking about dogs to be rehomed who ARE going to be on lead for some time, the lead is a must for us. In the assessment we let the dogs pull and 'do what they do', if a poor result is evident, we then test again at the end once we have the dog walking on a loose lead, and more settled. I find it really hard to explain preceeding body language that causes us to cease a test apart from the obvious. The dogs we use as a control dog are not rude so it takes 'appropriate correction' out of the equasion for most dogs. Overt aggression is different to dogs that simply dislike other dogs in their face though, critical distance is important as is the intensity of any reaction. Again this is re tested at the end of the test where we can actually engage the dog in some training and see how they respond- this is different from assessment. Resource guarding doesn't instantly change how we feel about the dog in relation to others- depends on the rest of the test. If we are talking dogs to rehome- we draw the line where the aggression is such that average people with average training will not succeed in rehab. There are some dogs who we will say need in house training first and then we re assess to see whether at that point an average person with average training could continue the dogs progress. Dogs who need months of work with a behaviourist- and pose a threat in the mean time- may fail. Puppies under 6 months are a little different but we look at the assessment as a whole to determine what the best option will be. I will often see how the under 6 months respond to an alpha bitch as it gives me an understanding of whether they have any clue about dog body language. I don't think we have ever failed a dog under 6 months but many have been made training compulsory or re-assess, in house shelter training required. I hope this is what you're after- if not, sorry for the long post! ETA You're welcome to come and view some of our assessments at some stage if you'd like or we have a workshop in June

A few more sent by the breeder

One of my dogs has really rough paw pads- much rougher than the other three. Is it a problem? An indicator of a problem?

Yes we will definitely only be getting one! Just so hard to decide!

JulesP what do you do when one pup chooses you and the other chooses your partner!! When we saw them the first time, i preferred the dark face boy and Stu preferred the other one and now we have swapped-although there is really nothing in it as both pups are divine!

Yes that will be his name :D

They will both be either rough or broken- too hard to tell which at this stage. The other dogs will love him to bits- they are pretty used to having dogs coming and going and we babysit 3 pugs for a day each week so they are used to dogs alot smaller than them. Will need to be extra careful with Gilbert though because he will be tiny!! 4 weeks to go before we can bring one home :D

While its hard to tell at this age the boy trying to eat my hair probably has better show markings and the breeder said a lovely head and ear set. The breeder definitely isn't keeping a boy though and they will all be going to pet homes i think so the showing part won't matter too much. I wish i could get both- but can't for so many good reasons :D Yes the chewing hair photo is gold- and he did also fall asleep in my arms, but the other 3 fell asleep on my legs.. :D They are so gorgeous- i have never had the opportunity to see healthy babies at this age (just malnourished rescue/ shelter babies) and they are just divine!

I think the only issue is when people go to a training club that has XYZ technique only and then XYZ technique does not work for their dog so they believe (incorrectly) that their dog cannot be trained- especially if they have been told by the club that using a halti or correctional collar is 'evil' OR using food rewards is just bribery etc. They then think that their dog is untrainable. People don't know about the can of worms relating to training techniques! Let me also say that some people want a private lesson within a group class- that can't happen! Differenr training styles- private, semi private or group suit different people, at different stages of learning and there have been some cases wher i have encouraged someone to do private lessons in combination with group training or vice versa because they need a little extra. There is also a difference between clubs and professional training orgs. I would not expect a club run by volunteers to know about free shaping (it would be a bonus if they did) but i would expect professional trainers to.

I haven't met Dad- only seen photos and been told about him. He sounds and looks lovely and i have seen photos of him with 'his' children and a cat- he's said to get on well with everyone and by all accounts, a lovely boy. Mum is an absolute charmer- i could just about take her home

I just don't know muttaburra- they are both confident, outgoing and curious. They both love to be handled and seek people out and enjoy playing with their littermates. They both have beautiful markings too- so i am sort of hoping that something obvious will change so we can pick one way or the other! I love them both! (and no i am not allowed to take both!)

I like daycare and recommend it to many clients. HOWEVER, i think you are wise to heed SBT 123's warning with the breed you have. Ask lots of questions about the level of supervision, how often dogs are separated, what kind of assessments the dogs undergo, when the busy days are and how many dogs are there, the staff to dog ratio etc etc!

These are the boys we are deciding between- leaning towards the one with more white on his face but everything could change in another 2 weeks when we see them next!