Cosmolo

What is your current dog like in terms of social skills? Have you ever had friends dogs come into your home?

Me neither PAX And yet some people seem to think the dog is doing XYZ deliberately

I think we all agree on most points- i certainly agree that my entry level clients would never be best placed to use a correction collar. However, this is again where we need to look at dog and owner. I have some clients who pick up any training skills so quickly that i joke with them that they could train to be dog trainers if they ever want a career change I have others that have to work so hard for the basics as it does not come naturally. I don't understand why saying removal of reward irks you though PAX? I think training principles are universally simple- Dog does good thing, dog gets good thing and dog does not do good thing, so dog does not get good thing. Its once we start exploring those concepts further that i think the written word makes it tricky. Like with the gate example PAX gave- i would talk about the gate opening as a reward and not opening as removal of the reward (negative punishment) but that doesn't change anything, its still the same exercise with the same meaning for the dog- just different words to explain it. I have trained with and without NRMs (and still do- it depends on the dogs) and the dogs i do use NRM's for work MUCH better with than without. Doesn't mean i use them for all dogs though. I like NRM's for advanced dogs and advanced exercises.

Punishment IS necesary in training, even if its just the removal of a reward. If there was no punishment at all how would the dog progress. If i taught a dog to sit and asked them to sit, they didn't and i did not punish, that would mean i would give the reward anyway in which case the dog wouldn't need to sit. I agree that positive does not mean permissive but i don't think that using a punisher means you're not willing to teach and manage- these things aren't mutually exclusive The area of debate is what kind of punishments are acceptable for what dogs and i completely accept that everyone has different opinions on this- and every dog needs a different approach. ETA I agree PAX that a NRM is not a punisher- i was just explaining why i'd use it instead of just removing a reward. : ) And i agree its hard to explain in text! ETA2 I just re read your post PAX and i'm not sure what you think i mean? I am not talking about punishing for trying??

I can't answer for Huski but for me- removal of reward = punisher, no further action from dog, new exercise commenced. Neutral no reward mark = asking dog to immediately try again without additional command/ new exercise.

Thats true Huski- and thats why its so important for techniques to be tailored to a dog. I saw two dogs recently and one of them was so sensitive i had to be very careful using a lure because it was almost too much for her. We took tiny little steps and seeing her progress has made me so proud! I would have hated to have seen this particular dog in the hands of someone who did not realise just how sensitive she really was! ETA- Pax, dogs won't learn to the point of reliability with one repetition though- regardless of the training technique so consistency with any training is key.

luvdogs- are there any notes from the conference relating to what you've mentioned? Some dogs show less warning than others regardless of input by people. Spotty- i think you should get Aidan to come and have a look- i'm sure he'd be able to give you a good plan to work to.

I think its best to get a trainer or behaviourist in- to decide what the best course of action is AND if any kind of collar is used, to show you the correct and clear way to use it so that your dog learns from it and develops the correct association.

But what kind of punishment are we talking about PF. I disagree, i don't think punishment has a limited place in training more than any other technique- suitable for some, not for others- i just think it needs to be taught properly!

We really want a boy, so the fact that there are 3 boys in the litter is the best possible scenario for us! Thanks Rae- we're planning our next Canberra trip for late March i think so you'll get to meet him when he's just a baby! Happy New Year to you and your crew too!

I think they are pretty gorgeous too! Hope they all stay healthy and happy too. We will wait impatiently to go for a visit!

We have PUPPIES!!!!!! Crumble has delivered 3 boys and 2 girls and we are so excited! Mum and puppies are doing well although there is a little concern for one of the girls who appears a little weak. We will get more photos in a few days of the boys

Where did you get the dog from and how long have you had him for? While you certainly need to see a behaviourist, (we service the south east as well) i also think its vital that you contact the rescue group/ shelter where you adopted the dog to discuss what is happening.

Don't disagree with any although you could have an interesting discussion to clarify exactly what point 5 means and how it relates to different dogs within training.

Our dogs go to certain friends and family members houses when invited and there have been occassions when i have been told off for not bringing them! Most times when we catch up with friends we take the dogs (ours and theirs- all of our friends have dogs) for a walk or to the beach before dinner anyway. All of our friends and family ask if they can bring their dog to our place and they have to behave themselves while they are here. Children are welcome here too but i like to know so i can do some basic child proofing before they arrive

Some separate training for them would be ideal- there are lots of things you can do too, doesn't have to be traditional obedience but something that turns their brain on with you and not with each other. I have a client with 3 pugs- 2 boys and training for them is so important to maintain a happy relationship- with their owner AND each other. Whereabouts are you located? Someone can perhaps suggest a behaviourist for you.

What kind of training are you doing with the dogs? Whenever you have a multi dog household (i have 4, including 2 bitches similar in age) your leadership is even more important and regular training can certainly assist with that. I would suggest getting a behaviourist to help you would be a good start. In the mean time, put them on leads and start doing some calm training exercises when you have the two of them together. How much exercise do they get? What do you do with them separately?

Jacinta- i don't mean to be rude, but you need to get someone to come and help you and SEE what is going on. You are trying technique after technique without success which suggests the techniques are not being implemented effectively, or they are not right for the dog in question. Your puppy is having tantrums and winning- EVERY time this happens you will make the behaviour more resistant to change. Squealing does not always indicate pain but may indicate surprise- but can't be sure without seeing what you are doing. Every time your pup has a tantrum or squeals and gets what they wany (by then squirming away) the next time you try- the pup will try even harder- squeal louder, squirm more vigorously, growl and snap with more intensity- because they know it works. Its unlikely to be dominance- but the pup learning that these behaviours work so well can certainly lead to more dominate behaviours. I wasn't meaning your exact suburb or address- most people will say something like south east melbourne or gippsland etc just so recommendations can be made

Can't believe it Trish- how awful Best wishes for Grover

Whereabouts are you located?

Don't think of it as un-learning. Rather, its about replacing an old habit with a new habit

I think given the early experiences the pup has had- being taught biting is a good thing- the best thing you could do would be to have a lesson with a reputable trainer who can tailor a solution for you. The worst thing to do IMO would be running the rough 10 different solutions/ suggestions that don't work and then having a pup much more resistant to change. How old is the puppy? Where are you going to puppy school?

Well, we have a slightly exciting update.. Turns out Crumble- the original bitch is pregnant! We have known for a few weeks but didn't want to say anything until it was confirmed and going well! Puppies are due next week and we have our fingers crossed that there will be a little boy in there for us! The breeder has been so great- every time i ask for a photo or update, she always sends some through. We still know there is a long way to go- alot could happen between now and when the pups are 8 weeks so please keep your fingers crossed for us, the breeder, Crumble and the puppies!

I think its just a way to describe the opportunistic nature of dogs. I think all dogs are like that to varying degrees. For example, one of my dogs walks extremely well on lead for a variety of people- literally NEVER pulls. Unless that lead is handed to my father.. She has learned (even though she has been walked by him only 5 times maximum when he visits) that a little bit further out was okay, then a little tension, then a little more etc etc. So she was quite literally given an inch, and now tries to take a mile because she can Hand the lead to someone else and she doesn't even try.

Tammie is your research different to that done by Kate Mornement? As i thought the behavioural assessment had already been developed and was in its final testing stages?