Cosmolo

Beautiful pup Answer 1- Unfortunately the pup has now learned that barking will get food. I would extinction train/ ignore- only if you are prepared to be 100% consistent and know that it will likely get worse before it gets better. Answer 2- What have you done to train them not to enter the room so far? Putting them outside is unlikely to help the pups learn what TO do with an exercise like this. Do they have a bed/ mat inside? Answer 3- I really think that given you have 2 pups, you're best seeing a trainer to help you with this one as the dependence of the pups on each otehr can be tricksy and the wrong advice could make things worse, especially at 5 months of age. Do you ever take them for separate walks? Are the pups together 24/7? have you gone to puppy school? Obedience training? Answer 4- What have you tried so far to teach them to recall to you when asked?

I'd likely consider using an aversive in this instance- pup needs to know that this behaviour is absolutely not okay. What have you tried so far and what have your puppy school/ puppy obedience instructors told you to do? I wouldn't say its dominating- more just learning and discovering what he can and can't do and what happens when he does the behaviour- if there is any squealing going on or the children run, swing arms etc- pup has learned this is the greatest game in existence!

I know its a while away but thought i'd give DOLers a heads up on a rental property likely to be available mid- late January. The unit is 2 bedrooms but a good size- separate hallway, laundry etc. One common wall with attached unit next door, has own driveway/ carport area on other side. The unit is more like a small house with a massive backyard- suitable for dogs. Well behaved pets will be allowed by arrangement. Will be renovated with new kitchen, floorings and painted before being let. Close to parks, train station etc. Anyone interested can pm me- there is no other info available at this stage. ETA expected rental range $240-$280/week

Quickasyoucan- thats the point of the statement this trainer made- that a dog is cured when it os no reliant on the presence of a capable handler in order to show the 'correct' behaviour.

Agree with all the posts so far. Just because you can work to raise a threshold to the point that normal practical situations do not elicit the previous problematic aggressive response, does not mean it is cured. Its not just aggression where this is the case either- my fearful dog is the same. Its interesting too because the overseas trainer i saw who made that comment was not one i agreed with in many other areas but this one statement i found so very true. Just goes to show that you can take something away from everyone, even if you may not agree with other things they choose to do.

I disagree with that comment too Corvus- there is much more involvd than whether a dog shows the behaviour or not. I'd like to know what others consider to be cured and if they think problematic aggression is ever cured too? I spoke to an overseas trainer recently who said she considered cured dogs to be able to exhibit sound behaviour in the absence of the owner

Glen Eira Vet in Ormond on North Rd.

Ormond is probably about 20 minutes from Ferntree Gully and we run puppy classes at the Glen Eira Vet Saturday mornings with the next class starting in a few weeks.

We run pre school in Ormond. I don't know of any i could recommend in those areas- although there are plenty of vet clinics who may run puppy school in the area

I agree with Kelpie i. I own a highly fearful dog (we're talking about extreme panic and no fight response, not just a bit timid) and while she is a million times better than she used to be- its still there. The threshold has been raised to the point where she deals well with normal situations and the situations she cannot deal with, i choose not to put her in. I have clients with aggressive dogs and even those who have improved the most and are truly exceptional IMO are not cured. It would make for an interesting discussion though- the definition of 'cured' and not just in relation to aggression. Will start another topic on this later I really hope that people like Aidan do not get put off posting here because of inflammatory posts as it would be a real shame. I don't agree with everything another trainer says or does but that doesn't mean i can't respect them and vice versa. I like different view points as it makes for great discussion.

Separate or for absolute reliability- consider e collar training- but please with a professional to show you how to use one correctly.

I think that could be a possibility Pandagirl. I also think the thyroid testing is very important if you can get it done.

In addition to the other great suggestions- think about training that you can do with them for short bursts rather than just physical exercise. The training could be obedience or tricks- anything to get their minds going. I have trained many pugs and many dogs in apartments and increasing themental and sensory stimulation is a must. Once you have done those things, i would then ignore the mid-night crying.

Good luck Kelpie i- some great suggestions here. Does make me wonder though- our Dexter gets cartrophen every month to keep him going and he's only 2

Thank you

Are e collars legal in South Australia?

Heidi- do you really think dogs can't communicate with people? You're statement about "there are times that i intimidate him on purpose to reinforce that role". What do you mean on purpose- how and in what situations might you do this? My dogs respect and trust me too- and i don't need to intimidate them to have that.

Okay- here's my 2 cents.. I have and do scruff as a type of correction in certain situations with particular dogs and particular owners. I use it as a correction, not as a show of dominance and not as a partial alpha roll. Avoiding confrontation is important too, but once you're in one- never ever lose. That means we ahve to carefully select what techniques we give to what people as a poor selection with an owner who cannot carry it out effectively will make the problem worse AND will dent the owners confidence significantly. This is precisely the reason why onine advice can be hazardous and why many people either call for a behaviourist OR recommend non confrontational techniques that are unlikely to land anyone in hot water. I don't have a problem with scruffing as a correction with certain things but would suggest it with a dog already showing warning signs etc where you don't know the owner or the whole situation. There are better ways to correct if thats the path you take (and i think some dogs need a correction at some point with behaviours like this) and there are other exercises that must go in line with that which others have already mentioned. Its not just me who has to be able to do it either- so what if i can go through a tantrum with a scruffed dog- i don't live with the dogs i see so its not about me. Dogs know we are not dogs.

I am so so sorry. What a beautiful tribute video

Ditto to the one at a time jackpot brigade I think they really help not just the dog but also the owners ability to recognise improvements in the dogs work.

I hope so!!!

I would definitely give erny's advice a try- remember that the timing is very important! I would not use extinction training (ignoring) in this situation even if it is attention seeking because of the risk of injury to the cats if the dog goes through an extinction burst- gets worse before getting better.

I see you are in QLD? As you are dealing with aggression and not just barking, its really vital that you look at getting an experienced behaviourist to come and help you and if you are in QLD i would suggest you contact Jane Harper.

One of my girls will appropriately correct rude puppies too, even if they are young. I'm sure many would look at what she does as aggression or inappropriate but i don't think it is at all. I think she teaches some pups exceptional maners and body language and i can't wait to bring a pup home that can be raised with her and the rest of the pack (who play different roles) i think poodlefan and sas give sound advice. Are you going to training with the new puppy?

Yes, no definitely not at a dog park but controlled socialisation with known dogs like what you've described would be ideal