Cosmolo

Interesting Here is another question- Dog A only wishes to chase and stalk the prey Dog B wishes to stalk, capture and kill the prey Dog C wishes to stalk, capture and eat the prey Do you think for each dog, that the physilogical responses and the way the dog feels is different to each other because of the point at which they stop? My answer is no- because drive satisifaction is achieved for each animal, its just that what constitues drive satisfaction is different for each dog.

Let me give an example- i'd be interestd in what you say Corvus as i quite like different trains of thought, even if i don't agree. By the way this is not what i base all of my thoughts on drive training on- just an example I trained my dog Cosmo in what i considered to be prey drive, with a tug toy. When i took her to a herding workshop, the intensity of her prey drive increased but all of my training and commands held. Many other dogs that had been trained well but without prey drive did not have their obedience 'hold' as their drive over took former training. So based on this, despite the fact that Cosmo did look quite different playing tug and chasing sheep (she's not the dog i was referring to before), i would be inclined to suggest the physiology behind both exercises was the same given that all of the training held. I know with certainty that the herding was predatory (couldn't mistake it) which leads me to believe that the tug was predatory too because if i had never trained using that drive, i don't believe you're likely to get responses (to commands etc) when the dog enters that drive on its own. Thoughts? ETA in the above example- think about training once the dog is IN prey drive, not ABOUT to enter prey drive ( the latter is where i think your conditioning answer is accurate)

Corvus, do you think that prey drive needs to be satisified in a prey driven dog? What chemical rewards do you think prey drive produces that 'play drive' does not? If a dog was trained in 'play drive' and then placed in a situation where the dog entered prey drive, do you think play drive training would hold? IMO I still think you are seeing differences in drive intensity, rather than different drives with the examples you are giving. And yes i have seen a dog kill something and seen the same dog play tug and there were very few differences- which i believe were created by environmental variances.

I'm sure the people involved would be happy to answer any questions. I think its vital that temperament testing or behaviour assessments do NOT just pass dogs that fit one mould- we pass active drivey dogs, calm docile dogs and dogs with some mild issues. Identifying aspects of their personality means that matching the dog to the right owners (who are also all different and looking for different things) is much easier.

Contact Four Paws K9 Training, they would be the best people to assist you in that area.

not that i could find- hence buying through crazy beagle lady

I had to get mine through a contact of crazy beagle lady- pm her and see if she can help. Yes thats pretty much how the harness works once fitted correctly. There is another shelter in TAS though- i can't for the life of me remember the name of it but i met the lady who runs it at a recent seminar.

The sensible harnesses are the only ones i have tried and can therefore recommend- they don't allow the dog to pull straight through them like a normal harness and i have used them on a variety of dogs with success recently. I agree that prongs can be good for issues like whats being described- but i don't know if they are permitted where the OP is and i would not suggest one without proper instruction on its use. I also agree that surrender may be a good option for the dog if the owners can't or won't put in some effort. However you might find that once you have shown them he can do it that they become alot more interested in working with the dog.

Normal harness for tether (although i don't think the dog should be tethered but as you say, one step at a time) Sensible harness (connects at front) AND martingale collar for training and walking. A well fitted martingale will help you to control the dogs head and neck with the harness helping you to re position the dogs shoulders gently but effectively when needed. Martinagle should have a sprenger chain in it- nothing else! Ideally a trainer or behaviourist would be great too- the way a tool is used dramatically affects its effectiveness

Trisven, you don't think your neighbour could have done something..?

OMG Trish I am so shocked, poor Grover and poor you and Steve. We are sending our best wishes to you all

I don't trial now but have dabbled before and it was not to my liking for a number of reasons. I consider my dogs to be highly trained and extremely reliable (as does everyone that meets them) but no, they do not have letters after their name. I do have trialling clients though- CD and CDX. ANKC obedience is not the only measure of training though :D

Uncontrolled prey drive= bad Controlled prey drive- awesome Training in drive is about controlling prey drive and using it to your advantage. I think you are confusing differences between prey drive and play drive with differences in the level of drive and drive object. One of my dogs goes into prey drive with a tug, the level of drive with a sheep however is much higher- its not a different drive but it is simply more intense. ETA- IF you have a prey driven dog, and don't give them an outlet, what do you expect to happen to that drive? It won't just extinguish on its own with many dogs.

I think you need to separate the two issues- i would work on the paw handling and nail clipping through shaping in gradual steps and then separately work on the vet issue. The process needs to include desensitisation to every part of the process. eg, - vet smell - vet clothes - paw handling - vet physical location - being on vet table - paw handling - nail clippers - sound of nail clippers Erny's offer sounds like a good one too

What differences do you see that would cause you to want play drive rather than prey drive corvus?

I agree that using drive is fabulous- for many dogs and many owners. Its important to note though that the owner should learn how to use the drive to their advantage rather than just build it and that if they're not going to do that, they're better off not building the drive! I have met a few people who did think all they needed to do was 'step one' which was of course a disaster!

If she is after puppy school Burke Rd Veterinary Clinic runs puppy classes. Otherwise i think the closest ones would be either going towards the city or towards Heidelberg? I can't think of anything in the immediate Camberwell area. We ahve classes in South Melbourne and Warringal.

I would go NDTF- at east you can then choose after that what you will and won't use. Melree- are you allowed to use anything other than positive reinforcement techniques at the RSPCA?

Prednil does need to be given when the dog has something in their stomach anyway so you might as well give it in food. One of my dogs is on it at the moment too

I'm so sorry Haven

I have found when doing similar work with dog reactive dogs, that some dogs do get used to our dogs quite quickly. We start with our calm well behaved dogs for obvious reasons but are under no illusion about the need to then transition the client dog to working around more realistic dogs- the bouncy silly type. While we can get our dogs to do those things, the learning history prior to that generally means the reactivity is much less if there at all when we cue our dogs to be 'normal' Great post Aidan

Well to be honest, i have never heard it called that and only looked up and read what you were referring to. Although i'm pretty sure we've done similar things at times, its highly unlikely to be exactly the same and i don't know any trainers who promote that they use that particular system. When/ where was the seminar you attended? ETA Just read a little more- using this technique alone may prove difficult in practical situations where you cannot control the other dogs movements

Just a bump and to advise that the property will definitely be available late January. Photos coming but the property is about to be renovated so photos will give an indication of size/ layout only. ETA Unit is located just off Heatherhill Rd- close to Uni, train and freeway but is a quiet street!

I have used a similar method before on a few different dogs (never heard it called that) but much depends on the dog as to what the method is- i don't know of anyone who uses that strategy for every dog every time.

I have seen many dogs like this- its horrible. The ones i have seen were all seized from properties- not strays. Disgusting