Erny

All dogs have drive. It's the amount/strength of drive and for what, that is the question. Generally speaking I find it easier for both myself and the dog to gain some understanding of the new skill I want to teach by using a method such as (for example) lure. That's not to say the tug toy can't be used in a similar fashion, but on the whole I find food lure or some other 'calmer' method of teaching to be easier all round. I find this usually to be the case because in my experience, I'm often teaching new skills at the same time that I'm also building drive, so it is better for me to separate the two and then join them (not necessarily a lot) later. Training in drive does serve to enhance learnt skills. It is better to teach a cue that will trigger your dog into drive though, rather than your dog only going into drive if/when the tug toy is presented (if that is what is occurring). It's not so much that the dog won't be "as" responsive to other methods because of the fact that the dog is trained in drive. It's more a case of training in drive always being the more likely to attain a better response than other methods.

I would think this would relate more to something like an elongated palate (example only) that is causing the reaction - activated due to the angle of head/neck and the fact that the dogs are sniffing at the same time.

Sorry - the pictures are a bit small for you to get a good idea and they are quite blurry - it was hard to catch him in the camera frame as he was doing zoomies and is very fast, but it is pretty obvious that this one is absolutely mortified at life and HATING the freedom his training (which he also loves) has granted him.

Which only indicates you don't have a full understanding of how they work and the methodology that can be used in combination with them. In fact, I've seen and experienced such great results with the good use of the e-collar that I could just as easily be horrified that you are horrified at anyone wanting to use one, Beagie. What is the level of your experience and knowledge of them (and the training method they can be combined with)? To the OP : I agree with the recommendation of obtaining tuition for the good use of these collars - they can often prove far kinder skeletally and muscularly speaking than even the seemingly benign flat collar. But you need to know how. Just as you would for any training tool . I believe you should have no trouble bringing one in to the Country, although there is then the matter of warranty and whether you have the "C Check" tick which is what validates the warranty when you purchase within the Country. I confess I don't fully understand this (even though it's been explained to me more than once) but K9 Pro would be able to tell you. If I needed an E Collar then I would give up the idea of training, why would I want to do that to dogs that I luv who live in my home as part of my family and have not done anything to me to warrant such a correction. But then my dogs are well exercised and have a lot of time put into them in training it is suposed to be fun. I guess it is a quick means to an end for some people, we are all allowed are own opinions on such things. One of my dogs was snake trained before I got him, I bought him because he was suposed to be unmanageable and fighting all the time. I have never never from day one had a problem with this dog, he is the softest and most luvable dog and the best and easiest to train I have ever had. However, if he was bullied he would shut down. i.e. one time when I was training him in directed jumping he would not jump a certain way, so I said okay there is a reason for this, I had people saying make him do it etc. if he were mine I would not allow him away with that. I had him vet checked he had burst an ear drum and had serious problems with his ear, so he could not jump that was as he would have lost his balance. The moral of the story is listen to your dog ask yourself first off why am I having a problem in this or that. My other dog used to run away all the time from his sowners, he is thirteen now I have had him twelve years, every day when I get home from our run which is off lead through bush there he is right beside me. That is all I have to say this is a free country we are all allowed our opinions. My third dog a pup is a work in progress, I am not in any great rush to get there or beat the world, he is a real mint little dog. Beagie I could split this up - there is so much in what you've written that could easily be responded to, but I'm not sure you want to hear. The give away line that makes me think this is the part I've highlighted. It is a common statement made by people who just want to make their opinion heard but who aren't confident they could back it up with reasoning if 'reasoning' came knocking on their doorstep (which, in this instance, it easily could). But Beagie, I can very confidently inform you that I can clearly identify from what you have written that you have no knowledge whatsoever about how e-collars can be and are used in training by the very many who are out there and who can help educate those who are open-minded enough to be educated. If you do want to learn more than what you do about this very fine piece of training equipment, let us know . In the meantime, for your entertainment, obviously a very unhappy downtrodden dog (not) ....

No luck with the Canidae - either the ALS nor the fish, I'm afraid.

Which only indicates you don't have a full understanding of how they work and the methodology that can be used in combination with them. In fact, I've seen and experienced such great results with the good use of the e-collar that I could just as easily be horrified that you are horrified at anyone wanting to use one, Beagie. What is the level of your experience and knowledge of them (and the training method they can be combined with)? To the OP : I agree with the recommendation of obtaining tuition for the good use of these collars - they can often prove far kinder skeletally and muscularly speaking than even the seemingly benign flat collar. But you need to know how. Just as you would for any training tool :D. I believe you should have no trouble bringing one in to the Country, although there is then the matter of warranty and whether you have the "C Check" tick which is what validates the warranty when you purchase within the Country. I confess I don't fully understand this (even though it's been explained to me more than once) but K9 Pro would be able to tell you.

You can introduce a grinder to an older dog as well, much the same way that you would if the dog were a pup. The only difficulty will be is if the adult dog harbours phobic fears to the sounds of new and novel things and/or machinery.

I can't help you, but if Bunnings is reasonably local to you, what about popping back down there to have a look at the ones they have on their shelf - you'd be able to compare and check that you have the right charger. Or perhaps even ring them - I'm sure they'd be able to help you by telephone .

You will find that training in drive will help Duke's brains settle between his ears .

Mackiemad - it's ok, I understand where you are coming from, I think. It's about the confidence in "big names" -vs- how much "small names" would have to lose if things went pear shaped. But then, there are small DOL names on this forum who sell dog food treats and so forth - I'd consider that to be the same, or at the very least, similar. I would want to know that the manufacturer is "visible", regardless of the size of name or not.

I "think" there is a company making dog (and cat) food that resells the same food to different people/companies who then market it under their own brand name. Note the "think" because it is confusing Thanks for the clarification. BUT, if the food label shows the ingredients; confirms where it is made and where the products come from; confirms whether or not preservatives and other 'treatments' affect the product ................. does or would it matter? Genuine question as I have a habit of being naive of these things at times .

I'm confused now. My head hurts. Probably because I stopped following this thread for a little while and haven't read all the posts over the last two pages or so.

Is the exported Nature's Gift different to the supermarket Nature's Gift? that is my belief Where did that belief stem from, Rebanne? I mean, was it something you read somewhere and is there a link to where we might read this up as well, please? And do you happen to know in what way the Export NG is different from the NG sold here? Is it just the treatment process it needs to go through to satisfy export laws? Or are you saying the recipe is different?

SM - My understanding is that generally speaking, favour will be given to the on-lead dog. I doubt very much that it is written in ink (eg "the dog that is on-lead will always win out in a court of law -vs- an off lead dog") because if push was to become shove, I think any extreme merits of the situation may be taken into account. But, as I mention, I think the general consensus is that the on-lead would be favoured over the off-lead. I'm not a legal eagle and relate only what I have heard/been told in the past. I do believe it is a Council Level "rule".

From what I understand it is the salt content that is the main and most effective ingredient in that mix. I heard on a gardening show recently that most weed killers comprise of a salt component in them as well. I would imagine the detergent component in the recipe given in the OP would help with penetrating soil and taking the mixture down to the weed's roots . And I guess the vinegar provides additional acidic value to the concoction. Of course I'm only guessing. But who cares - it is natural and if it works .

I don't know how old you are, nor your background ...... but if another child was behaving in such an inappropriate manner to your own child (assuming you had one), would you be asking the question that you have? Not writing this to be in any way smart or judgemental - but the point is that you should not have to cope with any dog coming up to yours no matter where you are, if you don't want to. And would you hesitate if this was related to children instead of dogs? I'd expect you'd probably stand in and up, and say something. So the short answer to what you've written, especially given the inappropriateness of the other dog's behaviour and the fact that the owner was showing no control whatsoever over their own dog, is that you ask the other dog's owner to call their dog away and if they don't or can't successfully do so, then you do whatever you feel you need to do to protect your pup/dog and ward the other dog off. The owner of the other dog might not like this and might think you wrong (you'll get the "this is an off lead area" as this is a really popular excuse that seems to make people feel much better about the fact they don't have effective control over their own dog - it's a way of trying to put you on the back foot, rather than they feeling any form of responsibility or inadequacy - to be sure ) but ................... tough to them, is my attitude. Your pup. You're his/her leader. Your responsibility to protect. :D

Dogs need a leader in the pack. So if the dog is unsure of his place in the pack then for me (especially if we're talking one person/one dog) it is pretty clear he's testing to see if the leader position is filled or needs filling. And that 'testing' is likely to be represented by behaviours that are known to us as dominant behaviours. In essence, hierarchy order enhances the pack's survival - working as an organised group assists in efficient food gathering and breeding for the best progeny possible. Obviously, conflict is not congenial to any organisation running successfully. That's why there is hierarchy in large corporations - it exists even in our human world. It can be interesting and wishy washy at the same time. A link to the article would be good, but I have heard and read numerous articles/presentations on the subject and it is from these things that I have formed my opinion about what they are trying to say. And it pretty much bucks back to what we already have and know - just worded differently.

Of course they do. And why wouldn't they? I mean to say that this is of no surprise to me and really, if people thought about it logically, it should present no surprise to them either. After all, most people try to communicate to dogs in "human ways" ..... and we're the ones who are meant to be the smarter species, so there's no amazement that any other species of animal would or should not try to communicate with us in their own mode of communication. To me that's a no brainer.

so they disproved the pack theory with more pack theory? Or did they simply try and disprove that dogs can actually be dominant. As for 'alphas' never needing to get physical. Uh huh. See how some alpha dogs put others in their place especially dogs that are more closely matched. And alpha rolls? Stupidity because people do not know how to use them or the context they should be for. If you think you can take on a 30 odd kg muscle ball with massive teeth and that it is a great idea then you go do that ... tell me how the scars heal up. They do occasionally have their uses, at least the scruff and pin does, but with expert knowledge and technique not for random people to go rolling their dogs. Not all aggression is dominance based, some of it is. Some of it also comes down to genetic and environmental factors as well. Sounds like just another wishy washy article. I agree with Nekhbet. Whichever way I've seen, read or heard the arguments put up by those who for whatever reason seem to have some insatiable urge to disprove the dominance (or hierarchy) theory, their arguments still only use the hierarchy theory just in different 'non-hierarchial' words. They are speaking the same speak as "pack order" or "dominance/submissive" or "hierarchy", but they are saying it using many more non-technical words. It comes back to the same thing though whichever way they describe it. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet ..... " And it is not about thinking dogs see us as dogs. Nor about those people who do see the essence of hierarchy, dominance/submission, pack order thinking that we think the dogs see us as dogs. It is about thinking of communicating in ways dogs can most easily understand and get the message we want them to get.

Thanks Dancinbcs - will keep this in mind as well. Taking things slowly as I try them, and trying one at a time. If I can just get something into him to firm up the poop, I'll be happy with the way things are looking at the moment (and hoping like anything they don't regress).

Thanks SnT - but "tough love" generally doesn't do it. As I mentioned, most of the times he won't eat I do not believe it is about him being fussy although I know when you are reading from the other side of the internet this can be difficult to believe. He has gone for days on end without eating what has been put down to offer him, yet he is starving. Thank you for this - I will look into it. He's been on numerous vitamin supplementation via the naturopath and also the Vet who is into chinese herbal medicines.

You stopping the car and preparing to alight has possibly become a fairly predictable precursor that you will be leaving him behind. He throws himself around, becomes agitated etc. and you let go to the back door and let him out (because you were going to the park anyway - but he doesn't necessarily think as you do), which of course reinforces his behaviour. So from his point of view : You will be leaving him behind in the car; or Him thrashing about in the car has a chance that it will make you let him come with you. See the connection? Try doing lots of stopping along the way on a drive - doing the same things exactly as you would if you were going to leave him in the car (dogs are experts at picking up differences when we don't carry with us the genuine intent - our body language changes, our facial expressions change, etc) without actually getting out. If this has him settling down, try some more of the same but this time get out but don't leave the car. If he's thrashing (or whatever he does) wait for him to settle and get back in the car. Repeat, repeat. This is just a guess at what might be happening. May be worth thinking about and trying.

Your boy is so interesting. Will he eat chicken with bones if you just sear the outside to make it taste cooked? More bones might reduce the need for vegetables. I have tried this (actually, just warmed them up a little) and on the first attempt, it seemed to work as he did eat them. But the bone content caused constipation big time (poor pup - yelping/straining). I do think it relates to his digestion not processing the bone properly (just my opinion). Even one chicken wing can cause this. But I can go through 10 chicken wings (given over weeks) and he'll turn his nose up. Months later he might eat one. I have wasted many bones/chicken carcasses and wings this way - it is hard to tell when he will eat them and when he won't. The other day he did have a gnaw on a couple of lamb bones but his stools went backwards. Whether they were the cause or not I don't know, because his stool 'quality' is always up and down - more often down than up, but at least "up" figures into the equation now. And last night for the first time in months he actually picked up his big beef bone that's been hanging around for ages. Prior to that he has barely touched it, as though he doesn't even like the taste of it enough to carry it around. For a long time now I have found that if he does eat bones (a rarity, as you would have gathered), he is more inclined to eat them (if he is going to at all) if they are a few days old and the meat on them has dried out a bit. Yet the small couple I offered a few days ago were fresh and he seemed to enjoy tucking into them for a little while. I am concerned about him chomping the bone though because it doesn't seem to be being digested very well and I think bits of the bone hurt him as they work their way through. So after he'd had a gnaw (at least his teeth got a bit of a clean) and then left them, I collected them and threw them away. Pity. Whatever the reasons would be, I do tend to trust him on this to a good degree.

Well, the Canidae ALS is proving to be "so so" for Mandela. A bit "if I must" and only when he has REALLY become hungry (ie missed a couple of chicken meals.) It doesn't much turn him on, but he will eat it at a pinch. Not dissimilar to the Royal Canin "Sensible". But that's a step better than the Canidae Salmon which he wouldn't touch at all. Still investigating. I'm only going down the dry food track because as far as fresh meat is concerned, the ONLY thing he will eat is cooked chicken. And he needs something else to help firm up his stools. The addition of vegies for fibre - it's rare for him to eat them. Yet as a pup, he had quite a bit of raw meat (chicken, lamb, beef) bones and a variety of vegies which he used to vacuum up so fast it was scarey.

Any recommendations? There is no point in starting it until you've finished the antibiotics. The abs do not discrimate between "bad" bacteria and "good " bacteria generally speaking. I have some PAW probiotics (you are welcome to have- they didn't do anything for my dog) but persoanlly i think those human-grade ones that are kept refrigerated are probably better, there are a couple of brands but i have used inner-health plus before with success. I hope Rover is feeling better today! I have heard this. But I've also heard to the contrary - that there IS a point to starting with pro-biotics even whilst on antibiotics.