Erny

You shutup. I actually waited, hoping someone else would venture in, but no-one did. I think I need an "AMH" rubber stamp made up so I can copy/paste.

Hard to tell from your description, SallyB but that he still periodically coughs, it could be a clue. Either way, it won't hurt and IMO can only help your dog if you dose her up with some Active Manuka Honey (get UMF factor of 20+ or higher). It will ease throat discomfort and also helps to support the immune system. You can put some in a bit of water now and again as well, if you think he isn't drinking enough and that will help to keep him hydrated. Just keep an eye on the cough and let him sleep when he will. Keep him away from drafts and avoid taking him out for walks or exercise that is too active. IOW, treat it like you would a child who has caught a cold. If it worsens and you become too concerned for him, then take him to the Vet's sooner than your next scheduled visit. But otherwise, if it is just Canine Cough without any secondary complications, there's not much they can do. I personally would not have advocated a vaccination on top of surgery, not that I'm a Vet. Poor dog .... sounds like he's had a bit of a rough trot lately but I'm sure that with your care and a stable home life, he'll come good . Good on you for giving a resue a home .

I would be inclined to agree with you, Laffi. And it is my albeit strong opinion that whilst we don't have the firm studies to rely on and therefore don't know the potential indirect links to other diseases that continual vaccination (when it may not be necessary) there may be, there is very sound reason to be very cautious about re-vaccinations and their frequencies. That certainly sounds a lot, Cavalier. Works out at just under 200 per week. You'd think it would get to a stage where the vaccinated dog population in your area would become satiated. Are you seeing a reduction in the core diseases for which you are vaccinating in your area? Do you see many of the vaccinated dogs succumb to the diseases for which they have been vaccinated?

I edited my post, JulesP. I think it answers this question? He also needs to build his back end more - he's got a lot of intense muscle at the front end over his shoulders and I would like to even it out if I can so that muscle support has a bit more equilibrium.

Thinking about it with a slightly clearer head this morning, I don't think rung distance would matter so much in this instance as it is only to make the dog connect his/her brain to his/her back legs and think about them and where they are being placed. In fact, if the rungs were a bit 'off' in terms of matching stride, it would potentially be better, I think, as that would make them address the matter of their back leg placement even more. My boy tends to work his front end more than his back end. He's had everything checked and there is no apparent reason why he wouldn't use his back end. I was also thinking of getting one of those disks. When we play 'tug' he tends to really use his front end and barely uses his back end. This is one of the reasons why I want to create a bit more back end awareness - to switch his mind on to his back end. The other reason is for when we walk backwards in heel. He doesn't step so much as he does little jump-hops and it only takes one or two and his hind end is all over the place. It provides a good laugh though, and I love him for the 'cuteness' factor, but I would like to improve on it. I will check out Susan Salo's jumping DVD's, JulesP. I'm not planning for jumping him, but it might give me some ideas to work with in my goals. Thanks for the suggestion. ETA: Part of the not stepping back is to do with head position I think. We do walking back away from me (although he goes crooked after a bit) and I taught him that via lure with treat drawing his head down and in towards his chest. He's increadibly sensitive to my body language though (even to where my eyes are looking - which means I have to be very clever even just to check his back end heel position ) and when he's in the heel position he tries to anticipate me and moves into drop position instead. We'll get there with some more work, I know, but I think the hind-end awareness exercises will help.

All right ..... I'm going to let rip with what will be a potentially stupid question. I think I did my head in, in the "vaccination" thread that's currently running, so perhaps I'm not thinking properly, but I just can't seem to see the trees for the forest. In using something like a ladder to teach hind end awareness, does it make any difference as to the distance the rungs are spaced according to the size of the dog? I'm reflecting back to my horse-riding days where cavaletti grids were used to assist with jumping training and the natural stride length of the horse was taken into account. Do we need to do the same for dogs? ETA: Part of the reason for asking is that Berwick Potteries in Officer (VIC) have those decorative bamboo ladders for sale at about $30 and I thought they'd be good to use, as they would be fairly light and I'd easily be able to move it around and use it inside or outside the house (and maybe when I'm done, use them as a towel rack for one of the bathrooms ). But I just want to check about the rung distance thing first.

Seven - I get a big confused here too. Dr Dodds told me that if the second vaccination is given at >14 weeks, then a third should not be necessary. But I think the timing of the second vaccination depends on when the first one was given and I think that many of the breeders give at 6 weeks stuffs this timing up a little due to vaccination manufacturer's recommendations for repeat vaccinations within a prescribed period. My boy had his second vaccination at 12 weeks and Dr Dodds (yep .... I place a good amount of store in what she says) suggested that he should therefore have a third vaccination at 16 weeks. The only reason I didn't follow through with that was because he wasn't well at the time. So I had him titred to confirm sero-conversion. If the sero-conversion had shown negative, I would have had another shot administered, but it proved unnecessary. I didn't bother with C5 at all. Stuck with C3 which covers the core diseases. C5 only covers two strains of cough and IMO a healthy dog should be able to cope with a dose of cough if he/she is to pick it up. And there's a good chance that if/he she did pick it up, it would be one of the strains that are not covered by a C5 anyway. This is the way I see it. I would not give a heartworm injection. If you are going to use a heartworm preventative, I believe the daily heartworm is the safest, but at second best, the monthly chewables. I also believe that you shouldn't give heartworm AND vaccinate at the same time. Too much pressure on the system, so I understand.

Cavalier ..... out of curiousity, what is the dog population density in the area that you work in? I imagine it could only be a guestimate - is there one?

With all due respect to your expertise, Cavalier (and I do mean that - I'm only a lowly dog trainer and passionate but dedicated dog owner whose interest is in having our pets be the best they can be), there is a point missed here. The immune system protects against disease by identifying and killing pathogens and tumour cells. If the immune system is compromised then it makes sense to me that it cannot function as well as it might and can leave the body defenceless to certain pathogens and tumour cells. The immune system must be compromised by the administration of vaccination, otherwise why don't good Vets advocate vaccination even when a pet is sick? So why couldn't it go to follow that if a dog has the propensity towards tumours, allergies, or other of these health issues that requires a healthy functioning immune system to protect it against such things, that vaccinating dogs may potentially bring about these unhealthy occurrences? You need direct evidence? Yes - for your vocation I suppose you need it. I'm not good at quoting studies nor necessarily understanding the scientific terminology of them and I do rely to a good extent on the relay of interpretation which is a bit closer to my 'layperson' level of comprehension in these things. Where is the evidence that vaccinations do not compromise the immune system? Is that what you are saying? For me, a dose of common sense and reason says much. Vaccinate. Confirm sero-conversion (Staranais :cool: ). My plan is to not to vaccinate my boy again but I always follow up that statement with a "unless there is very good reason to suggest that it would be in his favour to do so". I guess that hedges my bets a little, but the point being that I would give a lot of consideration to circumstances before I re-vaccinate, if indeed I did. That is a far cry from the "vaccinate regularly" regime and advocacy.

No one is talking about not vaccinating, although I notice from the numerous threads on this same topic that's where people make the assumption that that is what is being recommended. It is about vaccinating, establishing immunity and NOT over-vaccinating. It is about yearly vaccinations, still so commonly advocated (even in the face of the AVA's acknowledgements and recommendations) and even vaccinating for the sake of vaccinating. It is about having people believe that vaccinations top up immunity, which doesn't make sense to me - you either have immunity or you don't. And it is about the affects of the vaccination (which stimulates the immune system potentially unnecessarily, which would have to leave it vulnerable, surely?) on a dog that doesn't need the vaccination. Why stress an immune system for no good reason? And even anecdotally speaking, how can anyone claim that my previous girl's adrenal gland tumour and subsequent suspected brain tumour (which became her final demise) wasn't hastened due to her yearly vaccinations? Can anyone give me a guarantee that her immune system was not potentially overloaded by the year after year of vaccinations that (chances are) were not required? And for anyone who doesn't think vaccinations do not compromise the immune system, why is it a commonality that sick pets should not receive a vaccination?

Me too, please Staranais :rolleyes:.

Should this now work in the opposite, given the AVA's position statement pertaining to vaccination protocol on a 3-yearly basis? I mean, if Vets are out there advocating yearly vaccs and the dog suffers a side effect or other disease as a result, could not THAT Vet be sued for recommending in opposition to the AVA protocol? Or is it a case that it would be very unlikely that anyone would be able to prove 'cause' due to the potential for reactions to not show immediately?

Me too, Pixie_Meg. But on the other hand, I'd hate it if you didn't take him out and he spent the rest of his life with behavioural issues that were the result of lack of socialisation/habituation to our worldly things. So it really is a matter of weighing things up and using some common sense with respect to where you take him. Even if you kept him home, there's no guarantee he won't catch anything and IMO there is a greater risk of behaviour issues due to insufficient socialisation/habituation. Of course you need to socialise/habituate with sensibility as well, so as to not cause traumatisation. All experiences inside the pup's 'critical period of development' (ie up to 16 weeks) is permanent, and that includes good experiences, bad experiences and no experiences. Carry him, by all means, if the area you are in at the time doesn't carry the likelihood of being reasonably safe from disease. But do allow him the opportunity to develop a sense of independence by letting him explore around on his own four paws as well, when possible, practical and beneficial.

From 8 - 16 weeks : Went to puppy school Visits to the railway station (gradual) Travelled on trains Travelled on buses Travelled on trams in the City Rode a high rise elevator Did a little walking in CBD Melbourne Visited airports Street cafe stops Throughout - met people Visited shopping centres/strips/stores Visited friends Did 'stay overs' with sister - both with me and without me Kept away for 7-10 days after vaccination (not only to keep away from possible infection but also to avoid stress of learning experiences) I carried my boy mainly for the sake of him feeling secure (socialisation process) and also when I figured he'd done enough walking

She is so young. If you aren't 100% certain she'll come back on a recall, don't recall her. If she's interested in something else, do something to distract her from it and when she looks to you (because of the distraction) do your absolute darndest to be the "something else" that she'll enjoy showing an interest in. Sorry to burst your bubble, but every time you recall her and she doesn't come back, you are teaching her that there are sometimes she doesn't have to come back. As she becomes older she is going to become more independent of you, so your work for a flawed recall response that you are getting now (even though it is only 2% flawed) will become even more difficult to remedy later. It is great that you are putting in time for training now and I think your obvious keen interest in getting it right is to be commended . But work on teaching her that a command means every time and your job later will be easier than it otherwise might be. ETA: I see that you've noted and responded to the fact that she is hesitating in her recall response and have already looked to the future on that. My turn to apologise as I should have read your opening post more thoroughly :D . It is good that you have decided to have her on lead until you are confident of her returns. Work up from a normal length lead, to a long-line (please ....... NOT a retractable lead) for distance work. When she's showing the responses to indicate that she's reliable in her recalls on the long-line, then you can progress to the step of letting the long-line drag on the ground. But it is not the leads that do the work of course, it is what you do in your training methods that will create the responses you are looking for. Pack structure (leadership) also has a bearing on your dog listening to you, so make that side of things habitual now and your pup will grow up understanding that you're 'it' and always will be. Make your rewards worthwhile for recall response and don't set your pup/dog up to fail. IOW, check the environment - is it more distracting than what she's used to? If so, take some steps back in training (eg back on to the long-line) and work some easy recalls with big rewards.

Following this thread, I don't see that the "Veterinary Profession" is being run down. There are some really great Vets out there and I'm lucky enough to have found one of them, albeit that he is a 2 hour drive from me. He does some excellent work; has helped many dogs; and very much cares for the welfare of the animals that passes through his practice. In fact, I don't know where I'd be if not for the fact that he is a member of the Veterinary Profession.

She's away until 4th November, Star, so her response might be a bit delayed. and you should be studying!! Get to it !! :D

Thank you for that, Ellz. I've never seen it at the supermarkets but I admit I didn't think to specifically look in those two sections. I've only been able to source UMF 5+ at Safeway, but I'll make a point of checking out the other sections. I don't bother much with any UMF factors below 20+. Cheers! Erny

I wouldn't use Bepanthen. Not because I think it is not safe for use, but I think the use in your instance would be inappropriate. What sort of "raw wound" are you talking about and where is the wound located? You can use Betadine if you have any in the human medicine cabinet. Or Active Manuka Honey. I swear by AMH, but I admit I've not used it on wounds - mainly because of the sticky messiness of it and also for the potential for it to attract dirt and perhaps flies. But I believe others have used it in this fashion quite successfully. Wonderful stuff, AMH (High UMF factor is what you need - NOT supermarket quality). But I think if the wound is a bit weepy, I'd be the most comfortable with Betadine.

If you click on the link http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/poison-contr...-ear-drops.html you can type in the plant in question ("fuchsia"). It will come up with two types of fuchsia both of which are reported as being non-toxic to dogs and cats. I had a look at other things that have been reported as toxic and it seems I need to rip out almost my entire garden .

If it helps any, Joelle ... My boy was given one at 6.5 weeks by his breeder. I had him done again at about 12 weeks. I had planned for that to be his last puppy vaccination, but Dr Jean Dodds advised me to get the 16 week one done as well. She said that if his second shot had been when he was 14 weeks or older, then he wouldn't have needed any more. I didn't get the third one done though, as he wasn't on top of the world healthy. But I did titre test to confirm sero-conversion. (Picked up that terminology from Staranais :( )

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ........ no, actually ...... I'm still . : . So ..... sticky side down on the dog's leg/fur ??? ETA: Nope - hold it!! Just seen your edit. Going to look at piccies now . Was hoping you'd be able to supply some. Cheers!! I can see what you mean now .

A link, to make it easier for some ... Dr Bob Rogers Thanks for the suggestion Jed. Wasn't aware of Dr. Bob Rogers.

I've never heard of that stuff, SnT. Is that something like double sided sticky tape or something????

I'm not a Vet so I only tentatively make this suggestion - although I see no harm in it. Mind you, I have no idea whether you'd be able to get this where you are anyway, so chances are the suggestion is going to be in vain. But I'm thinking that if you can get hold of some Active Manuka Honey - with the absolute HIGHEST UMF level possible, and give him some of that. You can mix it in with some of the water that you are syringing to him as well - that also might encourage him to drink more. AMH is used for for natural healing wound and immune support, both externally and internally.