Erny

Rom - I think that to 'condition' a dog to the word you'd need to pair it with something that fairly specifically and directly relates to something that the dog likes (or conversely, doesn't like). Because we use the word "OK" in frequent generality (ie even when it means nothing to or about the dog) I doubt that it would pair. But if the same occurrence happened frequently enough directly following the "OK" word, then the dog could pick up on that. It is also possible that there are other cues happening around the same time that might give the appearance that the dog is understanding when the "OK" word relates to him/her and when it isn't. :frown: Hope that makes sense. I think I noted Victoria Stillwell say the same thing about cautioning against the use of the "OK" word the other night. That's the first time in a long time that I've heard a trainer outside of my own circles reflect the same caution I give. Many training schools don't seem to give thought to (or if they do, don't seem to think it of any particular concern or affect) the use of words as release commands compared with their general use by us humans in our day to day language. Ok? ETA: In my training, the release command is a completely different word to that of the "pass word" used in Food Refusal training ............... just so you know ;).

;) So would I. Unless, of course, the "sooking" is signalling a need to go to the toilet. To know which is which you need a reasonable idea of whether her toileting requirements are likely as well as a 'knowing' of your pup's ways. Can be tricky sometimes, but if you aren't sure, take her out to the toilet if she was sooking (and of course, praise her if she 'goes') and if she doesn't need the toilet, straight back to the crate - give her minimum attention in between, if it is the latter. :D

You're welcome Newnewf. If you haven't already, read up on leadership - "The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell is one of a number of good books. Also "How Dogs Learn" by Burch and Bailey is another. Reading doesn't substitute good behaviourist attentions, but it can certainly help begin the cycle of education and understanding about dogs. Certainly if the behaviour doesn't diminish or worse, escalates, then don't hesitate to make arrangements to go see a behaviourist. It might mean a decent drive and a day or two away, but well worth it and far easier than to wait until serious behaviour becomes your dog's answer.

Because they are both in similar area, and 4 Paws have named their school so similarly to Four Paws K9 Training, I'd suggest you check in on the link I gave you to Four Paws K9 Training in my previous post. Confirm the phone number as being the same. If you're still unsure, ring Four Paws K9 Training and confirm you're booked in with them.

The cost of a behaviourist visit is, generally speaking, around about the same cost as one might pay to pts a dog. ANY aggression is "that bad a problem" and not dealt with has the fullest potential to escalate to a seriousness that maybe one day will see the dog as unrehabilitable. Get in now, is what I say. The earlier the easier the better. Email me at [email protected] I'll send you the email address of one that K9 Force has mentioned. No socialisation with dogs outside my pack. This is leaving the door wide open to grievous errors. Uncontrolled environment for starters. "Hoping" to stumble across someone who might know something about something, for seconds. Behaviour consultation and Dog School with reputable instructors is the way to go IMO. If the place where your puppy owner now goes is ONLY suggesting keep pup on lead and away, then my opinion of their capabilities is low. I'd shift and go elsewhere. Why not start a new thread asking for DOLers to put up recommendations for dog schools (ones that can assist with behaviour issues such as is now developing) in your pup's owner's area?

There are a variety of things that can be done - but as I mention, what is the right way for your dog depends on the dog itself. "Noise therapy" is one way ..... but for example, if your dog is very skittish/nervy, this might not be the best method. And it's not necessarily about doing ONE thing - teaching incompatible behaviour in addition to the application of (eg) noise therapy (which is just a fancy name for "startling/distracting") is often beneficial. Your trainer, who I expect has experience and knowledge in dealing with these sorts of issues will be the best one to assess and advise. I presume he/she is coming out to you reasonably soon?

Molasseslass ..... I commend you that you have a sense of responsibility as the dog's breeder, but IMO that responsibility does not rest 100% in your hands. Training of any dog - issues or no - rests with the owner of the dog and as training will help the dog in more ways than one, I think the owners would do well to take on some training lessons. Those lessons should cover not only obedience but also explanation and demonstration of the principals of socialisation. If the dog doesn't receive regular exposure to the stimuli the pup finds disconcerting, how is ANYONE supposed to be able to help fix it? And was it your doing that the pup (by the sounds of it - don't have a very clear picture of what occurred at puppy pre-school) didn't have much or very good exposure at puppy pre-school, or that the pup's owners perhaps didn't receive the right advice? You ask "what is the best way to approach this issue?". My advice would be for the pup's owners to either engage a trainer/behaviourist for some private lessons (in both obedience and socialisation exercises) or join a reputable dog school comprising of instructors who have knowledge in how to work to improve on the pup's behaviour, taking into consideration lack of early socialisation during its critical period. At LEAST the latter, although they may find having some private tuition under their belt before attending school, beneficial. ETA: Did the pup receive much experience in the sense of general socialisation before it left you?

Based on what you've written it sounds as though your pup (age?) is exhibiting defiance to your leadership. I would re-check your leadership and 'tweak' it where possible. In addition, if your pup is barking in defiance but then you ignore, you are quite possibly reinforcing your dog's defiance. You need to be able to identify when the barking is attention seeking (in which case you ignore as you have been) and when it is defiance, in which case you want to avoid your pup learning that his barking at you controls your actions (ie stops you from setting his boundaries/limitations). If you're not sure of exactly what to do and when, I'd suggest you have a trainer/behaviourist observe the behaviour as well as assess your relationship. You want to avoid any confrontation that might lead to your pup escalating to more serious behaviour.

Barking is a symptom of numerous possible causes, including (but not limited to) territorial instinct; fear; boredom; self-reinforcement, to name a few. As to what to do will depend on the cause for the behaviour. IMO it is far better to engage a trainer/behaviourist to come out to observe and who then as a result of his/her conclusions can give you a plan to follow and work to reduce the behaviour. It also helps greatly as the behaviourist will have an idea of the 'lay of the land' and can help with some suggestions on perhaps altering your fence (eg. covering in gaps; erecting temporary barrier) on a temporary basis whilst the behaviour modification techniques are in progress.

In addition to Arya's suggestion to read the thread by K9 Force, you also need to do more work on your recalls and proof them on lead. Long-lines are good for this (note : NOT retractable leads). You are right not to scold when your dog comes back to you .... even if he didn't respond without a great amount of effort from you. The reward for recall should always be a good one, in the eyes of your dog. Also make sure your leadership (as viewed by your dog) is in place and that you control your dog's valuable resources. Pack drive is what is required for the control you need when you've graduated to off-lead work.

Hi L&L ..... Actually, I didn't have any 'specific' person in mind. More a generality. Hope things are going well for you.

I'd go with Reddii's suggestion too. Once the critical period is completed there will be no getting it back. If the pup has had a really good amount of broad socialisation to all things worldly up until the injury, it won't be so bad, as that socialisation will help stand it in good stead. A crate is more confined and would be better for being out and about. It will keep her quieter as there is less room to move around. A pen is simply a quadroned off area where the pup can still move around but is restricted by not having access to everywhere.

There are two places over that way. One is "4 Paws" and they are in Melton. Can't say I know too much about them or what their instructors are like "behavioural knowledge" speaking. The other is "Four Paws K9 Training" - they are in Keilor/Taylors Lakes and I highly recommend them. Speak to Trish. Four Paws K9 Training ETA: Don't know how old your 'puppy' is but either way I'd seek some help on this asap as your pup's behaviour sounds like a serious behavioural issue in the making. The earlier you seek to sort it out and learn to counter it, the easier and better.

Well, that's what I figure too, but .......... I think you'll find that's the majority of occasions for most. The end result would be, of course a happier dog AND person, and that's the beauty of it.

I see classes as for being all three. Well, more particularly for learning and practicing. We are there to teach and to observe class members to practice so we can check to see their progress and to 'tweak' techniques/methods to ensure they are being properly executed and/or to help with any problems. "Proofing" is also practiced in class (level dependant). By doing so, class members gain a better understanding of "how" to proof and "what" to do in the proofing process.

I agree - it's not just a matter of making a statement, but about showing or explaining "how" and "what". However, there is the other side of the coin too ..... although I see it occurs more on the internet than elsewhere - mainly because we can't see to assess the person's individual ability. Sometimes you go into the "how" and "what" only to have the person who asked or expressed a problem retorting with an air of offence because they have a higher level of understanding of the dog training game than what you might have unintentionally given them credit for. Sometimes I've refrained from the more full explanation for fear of causing them insult. Other times I've taken a punt. On the odd occasion it's a 'lose/lose' situation. But ..... I guess that will happen. Hopefully they will accept that as much as those offering the help have to too.

In the animal kingdom, staring is threatening. I would suggest that if this is to occur again (with ANY dog) you break eye contact by calling your dog away or at the very least by standing in the pathway of view between the two dogs. Having a friendly chat with the owner of the BC to ask them to regain the BC's focus on them instead of on your dog would also be helpful. But if the BC's owner doesn't do this, you need to act. Where you've written the words "everything is calm" (as per above quote) is the moment that you should have acted, if not a second before. These sorts of questions are better asked to your obedience instructor (assuming the instructor has knowledge of dog behaviour and body language) as he/she is actually there to be able to observe it. But going by what you've written, I'd suggest the staring is the trigger for your dog's reaction. And remember that every time you fail to act, your own dog is learning how to handle the situation (by exhibiting aggression) and the threshold levels for the reactivity may become increasingly lower over time. Better, IMO, to teach your dog an alternative but incompatible behaviour (such as coming away) instead.

Much is your choice Kaos and I for one would not judge you for whichever choice you make, as there will be some adjustments needed in your general way of life to cater for your dog's loss of these two senses. I have not had experience with a dog who was both blind and deaf so I'd recommend you pop into the "health forum" here on DOL and ask for those who have, to give you some insight on things they did to make their dog's (and their own) lives a bit easier and how they coped in general. I'm really sorry for your dog's diagnosis. But unless the Vet had a very good reason for suggesting pts without informing you of the option of change of lifestyle or perhaps possible treatments, I'd probably go seek a second opinion. Again, I'm no expert on the subject but I believe there are treatments available for cataracts ..... one of which are drops. I've not had much feedback on the "drops" treatment, but the very little I have had has been quite good. You also say she has "significant" hearing loss ..... that doesn't mean "total" so there may be ways of working around that too. I'm also curious to know if the Vet has investigated or spoken about investigating whether there is a cause to the significant hearing loss ????

Ahhhh ..... now I see where you are coming from. Yes, I agree that putting the chain on the wrong way around results in the chain not releasing after tension/correction is applied, although generally it won't stay so tight as to stop the dog breathing or causing it to choke. Thanks for your response. It puzzled me. Cheers! Erny

Mystiqview ..... I'm surprised anyone would give dirty looks because a dog broke a stay when being attacked. To take a positive out of the experience though and assuming your school runs socialisation classes, why don't you ask them to include people yelling, being abusive (pretending, I mean ...), larrikanising etc. etc. as part of socialisation so everyone can desensitise their dogs to it? There are many instances in real life where noises, sounds and movements are similar to the above but are not intentional and it is good to have dogs who remain calm and unconcerned about them. And if I've had cause to leave my dog in a stay, I don't need it to be so tentative that someone yelling in the proximity would be sufficient cause to break the command. That's where proofing the stay comes in. I'm glad your dog is ok though. ;)

Becoming clingy at your dog's age - assuming this is unlike her normal behaviour - can be another sign of cognitive dysfunction. Nutritional antioxidants can help with that and also, so I'm informed at the recent seminar, Gynkgo leaf extract. You could contact Robert McDowall who helps and supplies holistic medications for dogs. At least speak with him and describe what you have detected. I don't wish to draw your attention away from the possibility of more simple things that are behaviour adaptations which might have developed as a result of imitation and/or inadvertent reinforcement, or even things that have not seen consistency in training (eg in your case the 'heel') or even inadvertent lapse of leadership which in itself can alter dramatically where things such as the members of the household changing can have quite an impact. But if you address these things confidently and are assured they are not contributing to the problems, then at least reference to someone such as Robert McDowall might be helpful. Good luck, and it really would be interesting if you would refresh this thread at some stage to let us know what you discovered and how you got on.

Kaos - on the strict assumption (which is all I can do, given that I don't have the opportunity to observe you, your dog and your relationship) that what you write is all there is to it, then my mind wanders to the possibility of the outset of some sort of cognitive dysfunction, such as dementia? Having just come away from a seminar which has briefed on the topic, it has refreshed my memory (I think sometimes I suffer the cognitive dysfunction myself!!! ) that this can affect dogs at around the age of 7 years ..... although often it is not identified until the dog is somewhat older. Perhaps this is an area which is worth exploring given that you have identified all other areas (eg leadership) to be properly in place and without issue? What might also help track back and reach accurate diagnosis as to the even more finite of behaviours that might have been there but brushed aside as inconsequential, when they began to occur and what was happening within the household at the time. Eg. A new dog coming into the household (even though I know you say her behaviour has remained unchanged with all the others). Something else to consider, in particular to the stealing of food ................. are there any other of your dogs that do or have done this and from which the behaviour has become learnt?

Would you mind expanding on what you've said above. I'm not sure that I am reading it as you might have intended. And would you mind telling as to whether you've used a martingale in the past and if so, the advantages you find of the Clever Collar over that?

No - haven't received anything via post from QLD. That would be appreciated. Thanks Rom.

Thanks Jeff ................ but I don't really feel or think my job has started yet. I mean, the hard task is still to come. But in the interim, what I (we) need is a tonne more of written submissions (from all and any States) to my email address.