Erny

Ditto. Even though you might see some outward improvement, the condition itself can continue to exist. The earlier it is fixed (assuming something is out of alignment) the better the chance that it will 'stay' fixed and require no further (or at least, less) visits/treatment.

Bacchus - no advice from me, I'm afraid. This is out of my league. But thinking of you and your Rotti boy. Wish you the best - whatever path you elect to take will only be because you care.

It is the spasmodical nature of your dog's behaviour that detracts from me thinking that there is an outside influence (such as school kids etc.) as if this were to be the case, the behaviour would be more likely to be exhibited to at least some extent on a more regular pattern than what you have described, Novta. Having said that, though - perhaps the spasmodical nature of the behaviour is the result of differential of pattern with regards to when you have her in the kennel run, when you are home, and when you are not home? For the moment I'd be inclined to refrain from resort to medications and like Pinnacle has mentioned, by themselves they don't have a particularly high success rate without behaviour modification treatment. And of course, to apply behaviour modification treatment we need to have some idea of what the cause of the behaviour might be. Which is what we are sussing out by the questions etc. in this thread. On the otherhand, I agree that meds might be something necessary if her behaviour is continuing in an self-injurious nature and cannot by any other means for the short term be prevented. I'm glad you're getting a urine sample tested - if it comes back all clear, then at least you have eliminated a medical based suspicion for cause. Also good if you get that other kennel run up and constructed as it too (with availability to grass) will prove a good indicator of whether the cause has been motivated by the physical need to urinate but disinclination to urinate in the existing kennel run. On this note, for some reason, I am picturing a concrete kennel run that you currently use - is this the case? When you do leave home (which is when you say she exhibits the behaviour), for what length of time are you away? If it is possible to eliminate one possible cause at a time, it will be clearer as to what the cause of the problem actually is. Although sometimes behaviours need to be dealt with with more urgency than this might allow.

If he's barking at you, yes you could ignore. If he's barking at your other dog, I'd be inclined to put him out if he doesn't "quiet" on your command. If you have guests over, it might be somewhat difficult to cope with the barking, in which case I'd put him out if he doesn't "quiet" to your command in this instance. Please remember to give him nice attention once he has quietened. But not immediately. Wait for at least a minute or so's silence. I believe you can. It's because of the constant re-shuffle of pack order that fostering causes that you being pack-leader becomes even more mandatory and needed than ever. I don't wish to tell you to stop either, for the same reasons. I love the work the rescue world do. It's a matter of see how you go and do the best you could possibly do. I think many fosterers manage to cope and not all have noticeable issues. Perhaps visit the rescue thread (general section) and post a thread asking for the experiences of others. I've read of one or two people who have stopped fostering for the sake of their own dogs, but that's not to say it counts as a majority. Make sure that from the get-go you set boundaries and limitations, don't accept shenanigan (sp?) behaviour and exhibit leadership to them too. Be a strict but fair leader to them all. This is often difficult and not what we are inclined to do when a new dog comes to us - we tend to go straight into nurture mode as if that is the most important need of the dog. That's not to say you can't have fun with them. Whenever I speak of leadership and its importance, I always feel as though I sound like the fun-police. This is far from the truth of my intent. Have fun but on your terms ..... everything always on your terms.

Continue as you are - keep ignoring, but ensure that you are consistent with it. After a minute or so after he has quietened, THEN pay him some attention. He starts to bark again, and out he goes. As always, ensure your 'pack leadership' status is identified by your dogs as being "up there". Follow the NILIF program (Nothing In Life Is Free) - this will help him realise that his demands for what he wants when he wants it are simply not going to be met. Make sure YOU instigate all contact, and not the other way around. Don't forget that ignoring includes not only no speaking and no touching, but NO EYE CONTACT either. As you've already suggested you will , control the activities of others around your dogs so that your behaviour modification efforts are not hindered and so that your dogs are reinforced and subsequently learn unwanted behaviours that they later have to be punished for. Purchase ear plugs and have a supply for your guests if need be. ETA: Fostering rescue dogs is an immensley admirable thing to do ;) but it does have an impact on the 'family pack order' with dogs coming and then going. Whether or not this has had a bearing on your dog's behaviour problem worsening or not is difficult to tell, although the idea is very possible. But as you say, by the sounds of it it has not been the singular initial cause, which is learnt behaviour from earlier on.

Pinnacle - you obviously have an idea of where I am headed with my questioning ;) . Novta - having an aversion to urinating in the kennel run in the absence of having access away from it in those times of 'need' can in itself be a cause of anxiety.

Something else to investigate, if it is at all possible ................ Does she exhibit this destructive behaviour if she is secluded from you (ie you're not home) but NOT in her kennel run? She doesn't toilet in her kennel run? - is there a possibility that UTI has returned, even mildly? Is she trying to hold on - and perhaps too long (which can cause bladder infection anyway) because of some aversion to toileting in her kennel run?

Hi Tony Don't see anywhere there where there would or could be any disrespect to me .... don't even see where what you write (much of which I agree with, as you know from past 'conversations') argues or debates what I wrote (above). I am actually confused somewhat with what the main agenda of this thread is meant to be. ;)

IMO, this is how and why the whole dog/man relationship has evolved. It is still evolving and will continue to evolve as our desires and reasons for requiring dog companionship/interaction also evolve. I won't enter the working dog -vs- show/pet dog debate here. There are threads on that already and it is a different topic than what I think this thread's topic intention is. Although it's your thread, Pinnacle, so you can lead this in whichever direction you chose if I've misunderstood the original objective .

Rom - it was a line of thought. An exploration of idea. Never silly. This is how 'new' ideas are born. But think about how people might teach their dogs in the sport of "Weight Pulling". I've never done this myself, so I'm no expert there, but I think I've read that they start out with the dog pulling a light weight and then move up to heavier weights as the dog becomes more accustomed to it. I doubt they'd do it this way if it proved that pulling heavy weights would result in the dog becoming more sensitive to the lead/rope than the other way around. Sure, they'd have their dog in harnesses and would reward and encourage the dog for pulling. But that aside, I think it would carry the same principal.

L & L - PM Steve (forum mod). She's been looking after the MDBA stuff. I have a copy of the Nomination form and flier in PDF form, but I'm not sure how to put/paste it here.

Given her recent bad experiences, it sounds like it could (at a guess) be 'displacement behaviour' - occurs when the dog is in some state of conflict. Reduce the pressure she feels by adding distance. Make the exercises at class time, simple and easy for her to earn a 'win'. Congratulations

If you haven't already, why don't you nominate your best and fav Vets via the MDBA awards. I'm sure they'd appreciate the acknowledgement for their good efforts and assistance.

This can either be the result of a training issue, or can be more deep seated as a 'pack leader' issue. If the latter, it can be a claim of your space by the dog and/or a manner of the dog 'herding' (ie steering) you rather than the other way around. I would not move out of his space - that's sending a message to him that he is entitled to it and may well be reinforcing his idea of higher heirarchy status (especially if it is 'pack leader' issue). Assuming it is not setting up confrontation that you would not be able to safely deal with, I'm inclined to push back into the space the dog is trying to claim. Nudge him off your leg with your leg when he is leaning into it at the 'sit'. Kavik : This is what I do. But as soon as the dog is exactly in the space you desire, move forward and begin randomising with right/right about turns. When/if he comes in so close as to interfere with your walking, take that moment as a cue to left-about turn. When everything is going as it should, simply randomise as you normally would in training. Note: Give releases as and when appropriate for your dog and his training level.

Yes - thank you MsJames. In my above post I should have added the operative word "might".

I suspect it is this. Often when you focus on a particular exercise, a dog can hesitantly anticipate that exercise (or a partial similation of it) when you then return to another known exercise. Practice the recall but make it simple (eg. short distance; low distraction) to give her the right idea. Reward well. Do a couple then randomise with the heel exercise. Try this before you resort to changing command word.

Yeah - well it would have been good had I been right!!! Been making a few errors of late. And too lazy to go check first. Naughty .... and not like me because I really dislike spelling errors. Philosophy is the correct spelling. Now - thanks for picking me up on it. :p

General rule of thumb - check chain should be snug as it is going over the dog's head. However, there will be variation to this 'general rule of thumb' due to the different sizes of dogs' heads in comparison to different size necks. The excess of the chain that you have once the chain is pulled snug around the dog's neck should measure roughly the width of your hand (I would suggest not more than 6cm). If the chain is too long there are two major disadvantages :- When the lead is loose and the dog sniffs the ground, the chain can easily slip over the dog's head and the dog is then loose. When a correction is activated via the check chain, the ring through which it travels needs to slide until the check is delivered. The longer the excess chain, the longer it will take to be delivered. So - the correction, although actioned in good time, is not delivered as timely as it should have been. Also, if the dog has changed its behaviour in this additional (albeit small) moment, the dog receives a correction for a behaviour not as we intended.

Could it be that this dog was still 'in the act' of going to eat the meat behind the bush when he heard the owner come home?

I'd reduce distance to the point where she is comfortable and re-build from there.

Getting him a friend isn't going to improve recalls unless the 2nd dog's recalls are so excellent that the 1st dog learns off it. Having a 2nd dog might simply result in the OP having two dogs who don't recall.

I am familiar (even though it is from many years ago) with curb bits of various lengths and the fact that these require a sensitive hand. I am trying to visualise, however, the effect/affect of rein weight on the action of the bit itself and must admit that I need to contemplate this somewhat more to comprehend how it would correspond to the horse via the bit. Weight resting on the curb would not, to my knowledge, have a bearing in this regard, save that picking up the reins would action the curb slightly faster than light weight reins and this alone might lead one to believing that the horse has responded to the rein when in fact it may still be a response to the curb. In otherwords, the weight of the rein is creating the first degree of action on the curb that a rider's hand would in the event the reins were light in weight. I can only imagine the rein weight having a bearing on the horse without additional manipulation by the rider, if the horse is well and truley 'above the bit' - in this case the rein would action the curb to a degree, by its weight alone. But I would expect any trainer/rider to understand the import of a horse being 'on the bit' and 'underneath' the rider, so I doubt the horse would be carrying above the bit to such degree. A weighted rein may also transmit more awareness by the horse of the rein at its neck - and that perhaps the pairing of this as well as the action of the curb would correlate to the pairing of a physical correction and a verbal correction as we do with the dogs. Not forgetting the rider's legs also play a part - and all the moreso if spurs are utilised. I do not believe that adding weight to a dog's lead would provide any benefit other than to produce a dog who will put more heart and sole into pulling. In addition to my query over what is REALLY having an effect on the horse (as per above) the fact that the weight bearing from a dog's lead is onto muscle (neck) rather than onto the very sensitive gums, as per a horse.

I am pretty sure a friend of mine has suggested the same - I know it is definately Propalin that she uses. Her dog's been on it for a couple of years now.

Possibly not - depends on what and how much interaction your dog receives from you/the family each day. What I suspect, though, is that the novelty of other dogs is far more inviting than what's on offer if he does recall to you. Work so that when your dog recalls (should be on a long line so that he can't help but come back to you) he receives high reward (eg. play with you etc. etc. etc.). Also, consider recalling and then sending him back out to sniff around etc. Often, the only time people use a recall is when they want to pack up for the day. Dog comes back and fun is over. Not a good reason for the dog to want to come back. ETA: Notice "Spotted Devil" refers to this (ie send him back out) above. ETA: Some dogs do recognise the difference between "on" and "off" lead and there are further steps in training that can be taken to work on that. But the foundation work should be done first to ensure that the behaviour is not simply a lack of or poor basic training.

Perhaps there's something in what you've written here that I am misunderstanding - but if Bruno grows out of his leather collars, he would also be growing out of his check chain. Check chains are like kids shoes ..... they need to fit correctly at the time and will need to be replaced/upgraded to the next appropriate size as he grows. I presume you don't leave the chain on Bruno when he is not being supervised, Buno06? Perhaps I have not interpreted your post correctly. ****************** I don't know if the OP is returning here, but it would be interesting to know if he/she has tried any of the suggestions posted, and what the results were.