Dog_Horse_Girl

I'm so sorry it's bad news. Give Jenna some extra-big hugs and remember that she knows you love her and how much you want to help her to stay comfortable. Hugs to you.

Buy the best tool you can afford - it'll last much longer and do a much better job. I have a Ryobi multi-tool thingy and it's great! But Ruby, who I quicked on the weekend, won't let me near her with it. My GH Lilly is fine with it, and I've yet to try it on tiny dog, Molly. I reckon the noise would spook her though.

With some of the imported products from the US, you're going to struggle to find them. Some you *might* find online or in a "boutique" pet supplies store, and others are only carried by PP and similar franchise stores. You have to try what suits your budget, and find something that doesn't make your dog sick. But, IMO, you are far better off spending more money on a higher quality food (and having your dog to the vet far less often), than spending the smaller amount on food and having a dog who is often sick or in need of expensive "dentals" b/c their teeth and gums are filthy. BTW - I feed using the BARF philosophy and only use Innova EVO for my tiny dog's breakfast b/c she takes sooo long to eat a RMB. The remainder of my dogs' meals are all raw, all natural, and all home prepared using only human grade foods. But EVO is also made up of the same ingredients and is RAW, not cooked.

IMO if you're going to be feeding a kibble style of diet, you can't go past Innova's EVO food. It's expensive but well worth it if you want the convenience of a ready-made food without the potential health risks of cooked foods. EVO is extruded raw ingredients of human grade foods. I am a BARF feeder, that is, my dogs eat human grade, fresh, whole raw foods. I prepare everything myself. But Molly is tiny and must have two meals a day. This isn't a problem except that it takes her a while (more than 30 minutes) to eat the average RMB. I just can't afford that kind of time in the morning, so I compromised and started her on EVO for breakfast with a "proper" BARF meal at dinner. I would never feed any of the brands you mentioned in your post. They're just too iffy for my liking. Go for the more expensive and usually imported products such as California Natural, Innova, or Solid Gold (if you can find them!). Many pet supplies places won't stock them b/c of the expense but if you shop around, you will find them. I hope this helps. Oh, and the best thing for cleaning your dog's teeth? RMBs, that is, raw meaty bones. Most foods that "claim" to be good for the teeth really aren't.

While the decision to end a loved pet's life is never an easy one, I would prefer to make the decision myself rather than have the dog or cat become really sick in a hurry and be *forced* into having them PTS b/c there was no alternative. I had a beautiful staffy cross heeler, Aussie and raised him from 9 wks old. At 12.5 yrs he began to suffer with canine dementia, and had heart problems. He also began to change weight, he lost a lot of weight VERY fast at around 13 yrs. The vet said we could opt for tests or opt for just loving him as much as we could. We opted for the love. Not long after this, at 13.5 yrs, he became unsteady on his feet and very quickly went downhill: he had massive stomach upset, was passing blood, and had no gum colour at all. We were devastated that our only option was having him PTS b/c it meant we had no time to adjust to his impending death. It was give him the needle NOW or watch him die slowly over many more hours. He was in pain, distress, and certainly didn't have any more will to live. I still cry when I think about his death: he was suffering and there was nothing we could do other than send him to the Bridge. Make the choice while you still have the choice rather than being forced into the decision. That's my advice. Not that I'm saying this dog has to go now, but be prepared that things might change very suddenly. Hugs to you and your family. It's a difficult time.

The important things with feeding bones are firstly that they're RAW and never cooked and secondly that they are MEATY. Use a wide variety of bones including poultry, lamb, beef, pork if it doesn't upset your dog, roo, rabbit. Use different types of bones including poultry legs/wings/carcasses (frames)/necks, lamb necks, beef or lamb ribs, brisket pieces, trotters/hooves if your dog likes them, and flap (ribs with muscle meat still attached). You can also feed some muscle meat in addition to the RMBs. I occasionally feed some chicken breast or beef casserole pieces depending on price.

So are we to assume/conclude that b/c nobody really agreed with your proposal, you're simply wanting to end the discussion rather than continue the topic? I find that a little odd - whenever I've posed a genuine question, even if everyone disagreed with me, I wouldn't want an end to the discussion. JMO. When you say, "I have my own beliefs and would never allow my dogs (sic) health to be jeopardised because of them" do you mean that you will feed your dogs on a diet inclusive of animal products? And when you say, "I have no intention of feeding him [pup] a vegetarian diet", how does that relate to your earlier sentence of, "As long as my dog is happy and healthy munching on her soy protein and panir cheese, I will continue to feed it"? Does that mean that your female canine will be eating a vegetarian diet yet your male dog will eat a processed animal-based diet? I'm confused. ;)

Your neighbours probably need to eradicate their fleas too, or the problem will just come back. ;)

I'm a little concerned/uncomfortable that the OP seemed to begrudge the (small, IMO) vet bill and lack of update since. Or am I just paranoid? ;)

Vet's advice for Molly my new tiny is to feed twice daily, but small meals b/c she's at the ideal weight. I think it depends on the dog or breed. My other two (greyhound, medium sized mixed breed) are fed once daily. ;)

How is this question relevant? Chickens don't eat meat. As an aside: So, you keep chickens so you can take/use their eggs? How is that not exploitation? Not trying to start anything but I am curious as to the answers.

Hey, Cavalier, I notice you're online ATM - any chance of you responding?

I'm rather shocked that someone who is 12 months away from becoming a qualified vet is prepared to risk her own dog's health for principles or ethics by removing meat from the diet. I'm vegetarian, becoming vegan (it's a gradual transition b/c that is the way I've chosen to go) and I would NEVER purposely stop feeding meaty bones and other animal products to my dogs. It's irresponsible, IMO to do such a thing when the canine is designed to eat animal products. It's one thing to trumpet animal welfare and object to cruelty (and I do both in small ways and large), but it's completely another thing to force your idealogy on another creature that you are supposed to be protecting and nurturing. 'Nuff said from me or I'll get cranky on the dog's behalf b/c said dog doesn't have a voice of its own in this.

Any news???

Can you please refresh my memory? I don't recall saying, "nobody would recommend Hills Science Diet", or "Hills Science Diet causses cancer"...perhaps you could quote my post/s where I wrote those things??? Actually, my opinion is my opinion and I've stated as much. Perhaps you could go back and re-read what I've actually said and quote that, rather than YOUR opinion of what you THINK I said??? Oh, but that wouldn't be anywhere near as dramatic or contraversial, would it??? Gee, sorry that my actual words and meanings don't suit your purposes. Do you work for HSD or hold shares in the company? Where do I say "[my] dog was fed HSD and it happened to get cancer"??? I didn't say that b/c I've never actually fed a dog HSD. I have a pile of evidence to back up what I'm led to believe about this and similar "middle of the range" kibble, but as nobody wishes to fund a proper study using a natural diet vs a commercial diet, b/c there is no profit in that, then it's all anecdotal evidence from a large number of vets around the world. Ahem, where exactly have I "ridicule[d]" anyone for not feeding BARF? I couldn't care less what anybody else feeds their pet/s, b/c it's their business, isnt' it? But having had dogs for close to 40 years, and having had a range of feeding options and styles trialled over those years, I have come to the well-informed conclusion that a natural diet (ALA BARF) is the most species-appropriate and health-giving way of feeding the domestic canine. I'm very pleased for you and your dogs that commercial foods have done them no harm and have allowed them to live long, productive, healthy and inexpensive lives. And I'm sure that it's very convenient for you, b/c all you do is buy a bag of stuff and dish it up. There is nothing wrong with that. But I prefer to take the time to purchase human grade (organic where possible) foods and prepare every meal so that it is tailored to that particular dog's requirements for that meal. I am also able to adjust every meal as required. And I know that everything I give to my dogs is healthy and free from disease b/c I bought the whole, raw ingredients and prepared everything myself. I think my dogs are worth that much! Their health is excellent. They visit the vet annually for their checkups and vaccinations. They are all on preventives for h/w, intestinal worms, fleas and ticks, and I groom them at home regularly. They are never sick since switching to BARF, whereas in the past, visits to the vet for various ailments were common and frequent. Our vets have all commented on the dogs' excellent health since switching, and even my greyhound's teeth got a huge smile from the vet in Cairns. She had NEVER seen a GH with such "amazingly clean teeth and no gum disease". She wasn't surprised when she asked what we fed her on and the answer was Bones and Raw Foods, but she was thrilled that we had chosen this method of feeding our dogs. Please also remember that processed pet foods are very recent inventions, and they were invented to make a lot of money out of ppl b/c suddenly, you couldn't trust yourself to know what your dog needed to eat. It's a very paternalistic and profitable industry that feeds millions of pets every year, yet it also is responsible for animal cruelty b/c of the demands it makes for intensively farmed livestock and poultry. But I suppose animal welfare doesn't concern you either? Gee, now THAT'S a sweeping statement, and I'm not really comfortable with making such a statement about someone I don't know. My actual opinion or thought on the matter is that you probably haven't thought about the animals that go into feeding your animals and how they were raised, fed, or slaughtered, and which bits of the animals end up in your dog's dinner bowl. Or perhaps you have and are quite comfortable with continuing such cruelty b/c it's easier than preparing your dog's meals yourself. I don't know. And it matters not to me at all. I make choices I am comfortable with, and so do you. And there is nothing wrong with that either.

DH and I are both vegetarian for a number of reasons, including not wanting to contribute to animal cruelty. Our dogs are fed using the BARF principles. I do not like handling RMBs and offal etc, but our dogs are designed to eat these food types and who am I to say otherwise? It is not fair to force my own beliefs onto my dogs b/c they are relying on me to do the right thing by them. Sure, dogs can 'survive' on a vegetarian diet, but IMO it's not the best thing for them. Having said that, there are processed vegetarian pet foods that are OK to be fed from time to time. It's nice to give your dog a break from the usual fare, just as it is for us humans.

Thanks TA - it's only me at home ATM, no kids, DH is away for work. Molly has an appetite and the vet has given me guidelines on how much to feed (he's been very good, I must say...with my lack of experience with tiny ones, he was so helpful and took time to explain things and answer my questions). He did say to give it time with feeding bigger bones to get the tartar off, but if there is no improvement in a month or so, he wants her back for another look. Her weight is ideal so she definitely doesn't need to gain or lose just maintain. She does like chicken - necks and wings are really enjoyable! I offer only two small necks or one wing portion (not the whole wing, just 2/3). She also likes lamb but not if there is bone in it. Tonight I'm going back to chicken and veg slop with a tiny dollop of yoghurt (she likes yoghurt!). I know what you're saying about not changing foods too much. I guess I just need to get my head around the idea that she's *different* from the other two, who will eat almost anything raw. And I'm really trying not to fuss, but it's so difficult when she's new and I just want her to be happy. Am I a sucker or what!

Dogs, like ppl, can develop sensitivities long after they have started on the particular food source (and without previous incident). I'm sorry that your situation might not allow you to feed human quality foods to your dogs...I guess we are all at different places financially. DH and I are vegetarian so the only meat we buy is for the dogs...the butcher LOVES US! We are very fussy and buy the better beef cuts for the dogs! As well as RMBs and offal, so we keep the butcher in business, I reckon. As I've said, find what works best for your dogs and you, and that's what is most important. For us, it's BARF philosophy using only human grade foods. For others, it's a super premium kibble, and others still, a supermarket brand of processed. The one thing I will say about a higher quality diet is that it reduces vet bills enormously. We only see the vet for the girls' annual checks/vaccs b/c they just don't get sick any more. Which is a far cry from when we fed processed as the dogs were often sick, usually separately rather than all at once. And if you feed RMBs daily, your dog probably won't ever need 'dentals'.

It should be moist but not wet, and it depends on the weather as to consistency IMO. Check it after 12 hours and if it needs more water, add it a bit at a time. It might take a while to get the feeling of what's right and what's not...it did for me anyway.

I used to feed nature's gift canned and still do in a pinch. But it's cooked. That's the problem with any processed foods, they're all cooked and dogs can't adequately digest cooked foods so they crap them out. Don't like to be graphic but there you have it. Lilly just doesn't digest cooked food. No exceptions. We've tried everything! She just gets really bad loose stools and is constantly whining so I suspect it causes her pain as well. The vet couldn't be sure about this though.

I can strongly recommend Mandy at Callicoma, she's excellent, really knows her stuff as she breeds working kelpies, shows, does agility, etc, etc, etc. She's based in Grafton NSW and postage is reasonable to most areas (was a little expensive to Cairns though). You can't go past her for service and price - I don't know how she sells such good quality stuff for such small prices. But I'm glad she does! Oh, her collars and leads are AWESOME!

Leftovers were probably eaten by ppl unless they were wealthy, and dogs sometimes got table scraps. Mostly though, dogs were in rural or semirural environments even in my parent's and grandparent's generation and so they had access to rabbits, rodents, birds and so on and 'hunted' them, which was a large part of their diet. I think as long as you aim for nutritionally sound ingredients and prepare and store them appropriately, and if you've done your research (which so many ppl do today b/c it's so accessible online!), then you make the right choices for your lifestyle AND your dog. I see no problem with offering a mixture of foods prepared in the most convenient way possible, but I draw the line at the more typical processed foods available in this country. Imports from the USA are generally reasonable (as long as you're choosing the 'super premium' labels and are prepared to conduct research so you can understand the ingredients lists) and if you avoid anything from a supermarket in particular, you should do OK. JMHO.

Thanks PF - Dr B says to warm things up slightly, so I'll try that tonight. Fingers crossed! Local butchers are a bit ahem, slack and don't like fulfilling "special orders". I'll try that though! Pet mince is garbage IMO and I won't touch the human grade mince on offer b/c it's usually past its best or full of preservatives. Do wings really get littlies teeth clean? I'm just a bit inexperienced with littlies and of course, other dogs have readily adjusted to BARF so it caught me off guard. I guess it had to happen some time!

Oh, I've tried mixing the things together, but Molly seems able to eat around what she doesn't like. And I can't get decent quality minced meat and have no mincer/grinder to do it myself. I'll keep trying and keep offering different things. Hopefully she'll eat tonight as I withheld breakfast this morning, as per Dr B's suggestions/recommendations. I've got the BARF diet book on the coffee table and am constantly referring to it ATM. Molly is SUCH a challenge! The thing is, I took her for a wellness check on Monday b/c she was in rescue and I wanted to know her general health status. Vet recommended rapid switch to BARF and also recommended ox tail due to the dreadful state of her teeth (not to mention breath!). The intention is to gnaw the muscle but leave the bone rather than consume the whole RMB as is the norm. I just thought someone may have some pearls of wisdom to offer me b/c I've never had a tiny breed before. She's the funniest little person I've known...and I know that if I just keep offering her raw foods I should strike something she likes other than chicken necks. I'll keep you all updated! And thanks for the suggestions so far...it's appreciated. BTW - I know white tripe is nutritionally void, but it's not possible to buy a wide variety of offal where I live ATM - this will hopefully change when we get back to Canberra.

Raw fruit and veg is generally more nutritionally sound but it has to be crushed in some way, I use a juicer - combine the pulp with a small quanitity of juice and seal into bags, freeze for later use. I have and still do offer cooked veg when there are no other options. But I generally use fruit/veg slop or vets all natural complete mix combined with RMBs and offal for a nutritionally sound diet. Like many others, I also add raw egg and plain yoghurt from time to time. Raw is better than cooked and dogs really haven't had time to evolve into eating cooked foods. It has only been the last 50 or so yrs where processed pet foods have been available and it isn't enough time for the canine's digestive system to have adapted to suit such radical changes.