Dog_Horse_Girl

I'm sorry, are you saying that you think my response was rude? If so, I'm offended by that and request you retract. I'm stating my agreeance with another forum member and explaining my reason for not using the "breed" name that the OP used to describe the dog in question. There is nothing wrong with correcting someone if it's done nicely, as is the case here.

I wonder why anyone would take a chance on their dog contracting heartworm by NOT using an orthodox preventive? I know my dogs' lives are worth putting "chemicals" into their bodies, which IMO is preferable to them contracting a preventible and often lethal parasite. Homeopathics have their place in treatment of many symptoms and some illnesses in mammals. But IMO they are not suitable as the primary preventive for a serious parasite such as heartworm.

I agree with Eridor...your dog is a labrador cross poodle. There is no such "breed" as a labradoodle. We always have plenty of crossbred dogs in the shelter and we always call them what they are: breed A cross breed B (assuming we know both breeds). Failing that, they're a lab cross or a poodle cross. As for groomers, have you got a Yellow Pages? You can find all the listed groomers and then call each one in your area/region to discuss your dog's coat/requirements. In this way, you can decide which ones you would like to visit before booking your poodle/lab cross in for a grooming session. All my dogs are short-coated...for good reason! Sorry that I have no personal experience with choosing a groomer. But best of luck! And welcome to DOL.

Thankfully, I've only needed the services of Pets at Peace once. I can't thank them enough...it was a busy time of year (just after Xmas) when Aussie passed and they were wonderful. I work at the RSPCA in Canberra and we refer ppl to PAP. The shelter uses them too for all the "shelter pets", that is, the ones that cannot be rehomed in the usual way...they become shelter pets and live out their days with us. We have three cats ATM. The shelter lost its dog in December, and the ashes are at reception along with another shelter dog that was PTS a few years earlier. I'm looking forward to us having another shelter dog at some stage... It's a difficult time and PAP just seem to know what we are going through. They made Aussie's loss a little easier to cope with.

Arsenic is the treatment for a dog infested with heartworm. It either works or it doesn't. That is, that the arsenic either kills the h/w and doesn't kill the dog, or the arsenic treatment doesn't kill the h/w so the h/w does kill the dog, or the arsenic kills the dog. A good h/w preventive removes the risk altogether. A "cheap" one, OTOH, can mean your dog gets h/w and then you have to either have the dog PTS, or treat it with arsenic and hope that the dog survives. Gee, so many ways to say the one thing.

Um, IMO any heartworm preventive is "cheap" when compared to the price of not using a preventive...or using a sub-standard choice. Either your dog dies a horrible death or you spend an absolute fortune on arsenic treatment and perhaps your dog doesn't die a horrible death. I know which scenario I prefer. BTW - Interceptor is "cheap"...as is most everything to do with small dogs. I have one who is very cheap to keep...IMO.

I would NEVER use nor recommend this product. There are too many unexplained deaths...particularly in the USA where they have to be reported. In Australia, it's supposed to be the same, but unfortunately, we have to rely on vets and dog owners to report "adverse outcomes" to the company itself and then it's supposed to report to the gov't regulator. I have to wonder how honest this process is b/c most vets apparently consider this product "safe" and the research I've done indicates almost the complete opposite: this product is dangerous and has resulted in canine deaths that cannot be otherwise explained. IMO you're much better off with a monthly tablet.

Ahem, I work in an animal shelter, earning a whopping $11.50 per hour. Or $24K per year...not exactly wealthy, am I? I still think my dogs are worth buying the best quality foods! My DH and I are vegetarian, hardly eat out or buy take away, and spend very little on ourselves in general...apart from running two family-sized cars, having a mortgage on a block of land, we live fairly simply and still manage to eat well ourselves. I don't think that spending $20 or thereabouts on kibble (a 2.2 kg bag) is expensive. I went to the butcher today and spent about $22 on RMBs, and I don't think that's expensive either. That will feed THREE DOGS for at least three weeks - hardly a budget-breaker IMO. But I also can't understand why anyone would choose to feed their dog on any food that's first (and therefore most prolific ingredient) is rice...dogs don't need to eat cereals or grains...but they're in dog food b/c they're much cheaper than meat. I would HAPPILY buy an Australian-made kibble if any Aussie company could make a comparable product for the money, but they either can't or won't. So my money stays with the superior quality of the USA-made DVPNBOF and perhaps my next bag will be Eagle Pack Holistic...just to see the difference. OK, so my ethics and my choices are different to yours. I can live with the choices I make b/c I know that as much as humanly possible, I am not contributing to animal suffering. That is important to me, in that I don't make a huge distinction between the life of a dog and the life of a cow or sheep or pig...they're all equally valuable to me. And each deserves to have a life that is as free from suffering/pain/cruelty as possible. But I can understand that my values are not shared by everyone and that too is fine. We each make our choices based upon what we know and what we seek to know.

Yes, apologies b/c my wording was not clear...Priceless Pets SELLS this kibble, but doesn't manufacture it...I hope that clarifies my previous post. And yes, I can only recommend three products and I think I've explained my choices and motivations. KK, didn't you used to feed using a BARF philosophy? Why has that changed? ETA - all a person has to do is decipher the ingredients listing and the nutritional panel on any dog food to see how the majority are inferior to the ones I recommend. It doesn't take much research to do that...and it makes life much easier when you can "compare apples with apples". If you're not concerned with animal welfare (as in you have no issues with supporting intensive [factory] farming of livestock), then purchase a product that uses intensively farmed livestock as an ingredient. But I prefer to use organic products that provide superior nutrition (both for us and our dogs). As I keep indicating, you get what you pay for...and I'd rather pay more for a better quality product than use something of a lesser quality just b/c it's a few bucks cheaper. My dogs are worth the extra money for their food...

This is NOT to be confused with the genuinely super-premium Dick van Patten's Natural Balance Organic Formulas from the USA - which is completely organic, GMO free, and contains only the highest quality ingredients. A 2.2 kg bag of this product is approximately $23.50. So please be aware that the Priceless Pets product is what I consider to be (based upon the ingredients and nutritional info) a hugely inferior product. I feed my dogs a raw, whole foods diet predominately. But my tiny dog is fed on raw plus the above DVPNBOF b/c she has to have two meals daily and my time is limited in the mornings...she takes around 30 minutes to eat a raw meal versus ten minutes to eat kibble. IMO, the right kibble is the one that is made with top quality ingredients, made without animal testing that involves keeping dogs in laboratories for years on end, made by an ethical organisation that has your pet's health and well-being as its primary motivator, and is NOT part of a multinational conglomerate that puts profits above all else. Having said that, you'll get a huge amount of conflicting "advice" b/c everyone thinks what they feed is the best choice or they wouldn't feed it...perhaps. I choose a raw, whole foods approach b/c it works best for my dogs even though it's a little more work than buying a bag of stuff every month. If you want to feed processed, then IMO the only products worth buying are the one above, one that is totally raw made by Innova (EVO) but you can only buy it at Pet's Paradise which also sell pets (I no longer buy this product for that reason alone, b/c it's unethical IMO to sell pets in pet shops and I stand by my ethics), or any of the Eagle Pack Holistic range. Yes, at first glance these might seem expensive, but you get what you pay for. If you want a superbly healthy dog that is receiving only the best in nutrition (that is, no factory farmed ingredients that simply roll off a "production line"), combined with supporting ethical manufacturers that genuinly care about animals not just profits, then these choices are for you AND your dog. OTOH, if you aren't bothered by animal cruelty (factory farming is by its very nature, very cruel), could care less that your money is lining the pockets of the already ridiculously wealthy multinational giants, and it doesn't matter that your dog isn't getting the best in nutrition, and you don't mind that the company which makes the product you buy tests on dogs that spend their lives in a laboratory environment, go for something else - any of the foods on your list are "adequate" in that they provide fuel for your dog...they go in the front end, and come out (copiously in most cases) the back end. I'm not trying to sound mean-spirited, but I have done extensive research over many, many years, and I'm opposed to all forms of animal cruelty...but I'm also realistic enough to know that dogs are primarily carnivores that need to eat meat and bones and organs...so that's what my dogs are primarily fed on. My choices and recommendations are based upon my ethics...humans don't have the right to treat other animals in the dreadful ways that we do sometimes, and factory farming in particular, is inherently cruel. If an animal cannot perform its basic movements and behaviours, such as standing comfortably, turning around, and lying down without restriction, then that's needlessly cruel. And that's how it is for many pigs today...just one example of how factory farming is inhumane. I hope this helps.

What is your vet's advice? Everyone will say what they think but the most important opinion is your vet's opinion. I do not use any supermarket brands...I use Interceptor Spectrum for all my dogs b/c it's safe, effective and affordable. It covers all intestinal worms and heartworm prevention.

Incontinence can be managed with medication - it's a simple tablet (daily from memory?) for the rest of the dog's life. :D

They do in Victoria. Legislation requires shelters to kennel dogs individually. What I meant was, and I'm sorry if it wasn't clear, is that the lab dogs are kenneled individually (that is, they do not live with any other dog, they live entirely "alone") and that this occurs for the natural life of the dog...a boarding kennel is a short-term stay, as is a shelter situation. Shelters do "double up" when needed or we couldn't take the huge numbers of dogs that turn up...but only after careful assessment as to temperament, health, and suitability to share. Often when you visit a shelter and see dogs sharing they have come from the one family or have been found together but not always (for example, if the shelter is already full and more strays arrive). I do not think that the lab environment is suitable for the dog's entire life. I certainly do not see any reason for this to continue...IMO it is inhumane. :D

How come you don't have them both on BARF? :D My thoughts exactly. Also, why would you feed one dog BARF and the other on "chum/pedigree/lucky dog"...these are dreadful in terms of the nutrition they offer, which is why they're cheap...and most dogs will "survive" on them but they surely won't thrive. Cheap foods mean that you have to feed a much larger quantity and you know what that means? Most of it passes right through the dog and you might as well not feed it at all.

Animal shelters do not kennel dogs individually and continue to keep the dog for the term of its natural life in the shelter/kennel environment. It is widely recognised by behaviourists that any dog forced into living its entire life in a kennel situation is inhumane and to be avoided. However, many of these testing laboratories (not just Iams) do exactly that, and they use the excuse that the dogs are not fit to be rehomed. I have to wonder what came first: the unadoptable dog or the decision to keep it kenneled for experimentation purposes. While many without first-hand knowledge of such set-ups may find it difficult to believe, these things happen far too frequently and are in fact happening now. I am not one to side with "animal rights" activitists and I find many of their tactics irresponsible to say the least...but I do know of other research and evidence that supports many of the claims and allegations such groups have made public (and others that they were forbidden by legal action to make public). The bottom line is this: a dog should never spend its entire life shut inside a kennel environment, with the majority of its time spent in isolation from other canines and from human contact, and with minimal time spent outdoors (less than one hour per twenty four hours). If you have a humane bone in your body, then this type of experimentation is outrageous. And that a pet food manufacturer sees fit to treat dogs in this way is doubly outrageous b/c it ought to know what a dog needs to enjoy a reasonable quality of life. These (and many other) lab dogs had no quality of life to speak of.

GHs have problems with corn in all its guises, rice, barley, wheat and oats, particularly b/c they are used as "fillers"...the manufacturers use a LOT of them in the cheaper kibbles to save money. They figure that carbohydrate is a good substitute for protein which for a canine, is not right. But ppl buy their products...so they keep making them.

GHs generally don't do well with cereals or grains, which is why many pet GH owners opt for either raw or a high end kibble that contains minimal cereal/grain ingredients.

Perhaps your apology should be for the attitude you've just displayed? I would never be as rude as your above post came across. But perhaps I'm just thick and misunderstood your intention?

It's kinda like asking, "How long is a piece of string?" But here are some guidelines: 1. Raw foods can be as cheap or expensive as you like. If you buy in season, buy in bulk, buy from a wholesaler, and prepare it yourself, it's more affordable than many processed foods diets. I buy in bulk, from suppliers that buy huge quantities on a wholesale basis. I buy produce at markets late in the day when everything is reduced. I buy what is in season b/c that's a lot cheaper than out of season produce/meat. 2. A higher quality kibble is cheaper in the long run than a lower quality kibble. Your dog might be OK on a cheaper one, but will thrive on a higher quality one. And some GHs have very sensitive stomachs so please be prepared for that. The reason I stopped feeding processed foods was that Lilly couldn't digest them...she had liquid poo and vomiting on all but one and that one was almost impossible to buy (this has since changed). I know many GH owners from Australia and overseas who experience the same challenges with their dogs' diets and most opt for either raw diets or something like Eagle Pack Holistic or Innova EVO. Some use kibbles not available here that are even better than EPH or EVO. This includes Organic Timberwolf...something I only heard about last week...sadly it's not available in Australia. 3. The kibble I use ATM is Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Organic Formula. It's $23.50 for a 2.2 kg bag which I think is reasonable. I use it for my tiny dog Molly, and to bait the dogs' treat balls (they get the treat balls once or twice per week). I hope this helps. Congratulations on the potential adoption but be warned! GH pups are holy terrors! :rolleyes:

Yep, as I said, "with one tiny exception" Molly is only 3.5 kgs...but she is raw fed primarily - all my dogs are raw fed. Molly gets literally one handful of DVPNBOF every morning...no more than that...plus a small amount in her treat ball when she's alone. My greyhound and staffy cross get the same processed food in their treat balls too. However, I think that the amount I spend for a decent quality processed food is a small price to pay for a healthy dog. If I had to feed all my dogs on processed, I'd still choose the same product, I'd just buy a larger bag. I believe that organic ingredients are worth the small extra cost involved. I'm sure some ppl find that cost higher than average but IMO, you get what you pay for. :rolleyes:

Raw fed dogs with one tiny exception named Molly --- but she only gets a breakfast of processed foods (currently on Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Organic Formula). She likes it, it's cheap at $23.50 for a 2.2 kg bag, and it contains only organic ingredients.

As I've said, I have no problem with companies using dog food tests on dogs...it's the HOW they go about it that I have a problem with. Or has that escaped attention...again? It's not the actual feeding of the foods, it's the conditions under which those tests are conducted. Yep, I too saw the Iams logo on Cordy's website. But that has no bearing on her view of their animal testing...and she feeds all her dogs on BARF. OK then.

LM - There is nothing wrong with having an opinion (even an extreme one - not saying you have, saying in general) nor expressing it.....IF you express it in a pleasant, open manner. If however, you express your views in a way that makes people feel that you are beating them over the head with your opinion or that you are saying anything less than what you do is cruel/poisoning your dog etc then, no you shouldn't express your opinion and until you can express it better you should stay out of discussions. Perhaps your first post could have been more like your last one. Something like: "I only recommend these 3 brands which are made in the US because they don't use horse meat (which I have moral problems with) nor grains (which are of little use to canines) and because organic products are the best for dogs and I feel it is worth the extra cost. There may be options that work for your dog that are outside this range but due to the reasons above, I can't recommend them." Just a thought. :rolleyes: I'm sorry, but where did I say that anyone is being "cruel" or "poisoning their dog"?

So sorry to hear your views...obviously we can continue to to and fro on this, or we can decide the issue for ourselves. I choose to educate myself to the horrors that continue in so-called humane societies and if others choose not to, then so be it. I continue to feel very saddened that someone that rescues dogs from death row thinks it is acceptable to test on dogs at all. But each to their own, I suppose. A dog spending the majority of its life in a tiny kennel with minimal interaction cannot compare to a dog that is well-loved living in a family apartment. But why would you draw sensible parallels when you can draw a more extreme one? I really make the effort to bring balance to such arguments and then others simply go over the top in trying to counter what I know. I think I've said enough on the subject in this thread. I'm opposed to testing on animals in laboratory conditions. That's my position. It's not necessary and not humane, IMO. ETA: Which brands of foods do you feed your rescues, and how are your supplies of foods obtained? Do you purchase them or have them donated or both? Perhaps this is what is colouring your judgement? Please feel free to ignore the questions if you'd prefer. I'm only asking out of curiosity... :rolleyes:

Yep, cooking horse meat and horse by-products is a disgusting thing...ask anyone that lives near the Bush's plant in Rouse Hill (Sydney). They slaughter horses there at least twice a week...unless it's been shut down - I am talking about the last time I lived in Sydney, which we left in 1997, so things could have changed. Horses do not deserve to go into dog food...but they do in this country. I know that hoof trimmings are given to dogs...but you don't actually KILL the horse to trim its hooves now, do you? Again, factory farmed animals are inferior to those raised organically...and the foods I recommend use organic ingredients. If ppl have no issues with factory farmed ingredients, then products that use these ingredients would be fine. I happen to make a different choice and I recommend a different choice based upon my knowledge of the differences between such ingredients. If factory farmed doesn't matter to you, then choose a product that uses factory farmed animals and grains/cereals. IMO organic is of a higher nutritional value (for my consumption as well as my dogs!) but not everyone is willing or able to pay the slightly higher price to buy such foods. There is nothing wrong with that...but my opinion is that I would never feed those things to my dogs...surely I'm entitled to my opinion and to state it as such? Or perhaps I should bow out of any nutritional debate b/c my view are perhaps "too extreme"? :rolleyes: I thought the OP was asking for advice or information about the "best kibble". typo...