Herr Rottweiler

How do you do this exactly? Loki won't touch toys, balls, food etc. Of course everyone's first reaction is "oh you just haven't tried hard enough" or "I bet I can find something he likes" The thing is, his nerves always get the better of him and he has such a low threshold, even working at a distance doesn't cut it. I have been desensitizing him for the 3.5 years I have had him and he is 100000 times better than he was, has passed advanced obedience etc. If I could just utilise drive to block fear then I feel it would help him immensely but his fear always blocks his drive. They would have to know Loki to really understand him. Internet diagnosis would never cut it for him

And miss all this fun?

Behave

Kelpie-i! Sorry for the misunderstanding. In no way did I wish to suggest that 4paws has acted inappropriately by poaching ADT staff. What I was eluding to was the fact that long term term ADT staff members do work for 4paws as required, which is a fact. With regard to the NDTF, they are a registered training body training dog trainers whilst ADT like 4paws (who are both paid up members of the NDTF and allow their students to achieve their practical requirments at their training centres) provide training services to their own individual members. Like Haven & Erny, ADT also regularly refer clients to 4paws when the options offered by ADT do not meet the clients needs. An example of this is that 4paws train on Saturday morning and ADT, (at this point in time ) do not have a training option in this area on a Saturday morning, (as yet ). I believe there is certainly room for both ADT and 4paws to exist cohesively within the dog training industry. As you would be well aware, the training principles adopted by ADT, revolve around showing the dog where it's advantage lies . This involves rewarding the dog with what the dog coverts, (desires) most. The philosophy is that the dog dictacts the reward not the handler. Praise, whether in the form of physical, verbal, food, tug of war, prey are all forms of reward that are promoted at ADT.

Well! Didn't I get put in my place

Tess32, for some reason they are quite and unassuming until they see a correction chain and then they strike

I have been telling people that for years!!! Finally someone in a labcoat backed me up.

It would be dissapointing to not be so excited wouldn't it?

Yep 4 paws borrows some of their best trainers from ADT

Some great answers there guys and I'm glad I got you all thinking! Tess32, of course there is a line, you're right but now, (some) poeple who are chossing to train with purely positive methods act like they have a licence to police how dogs are trained. Even a well known child psychologist who wrote several child rearing books based on positive parenting came back some years later and stated that best parenting was in utilising a combination of positves and negatives. I know this to be the case in dog training too. Not because i'm being bloody minded and suggesting that the method that I choose to use is best, because I base it on scientific fact not emotion. I'm sure that 98 % of trainers that are in the business do it because of the love of dogs. I certainly don't do it for the money as I don't know many, (if any) wealthy dog trainers.

Hardly think withholding 1 meal for 1 hour could possibly constitute "starving". Some people think it's not right! plenty of people think it's cruel to own dogs! So where is the line drawn?

Absolutely Yogi

No matter which trainer anyone goes to they're always going to have people that rave about them or people who find fault with what they are doing and sometimes that can just be a opposition in personalities. I am yet to meet the worlds best trainer as all trainers have a "method" and every trainer will have something to offer unless they are a complete bone head, which you'll discover in a very short amount of time. For the people who fear the thought of trainers or schools who use correction chains, don't be! Cruelty is in the control of the owner, not the piece of equipment the dog is wearing. Some food for thought. If some believe that it's cruel to use a correction chain, then why is ok to withhold food and leave your dog hungry?

Yes I periodically go to Heidelburg however, I'm usually at Springvale or Cesterfield farm then at Boronia in the afternoon. Jim and Claude are generally at Heidelburg

BRAVO!

I've trained plenty of deaf dogs before but I haven't used a vibrating collar. The concept is very usable though for incorporating focus or recall once the dog is conditioned to understand what you want. It's amazing how quickly deaf dogs pick up on training.

I agree. I'm not at all opposed to using positive training methods as I have mentioned in many posts. My belief is the purely positive can have as many undesirable effects as purley compulsive. Great trainers will utilise a combination of both positive and negative in their training schedule.

Yogi, I would have to agree with you there. I'm not Delta bashing because I do understand that some people are happy to look at different approaches with dog training and that's totally their prerogative. Totally Positive training is not the only way in training, it's just one way and it's not right or wrong but it won't always work. I had a lady who was "Delta accredited", (We knew this this as she gushed it forward so many times) giving me and my demo team a talking to at a festival because we had correction chains on the dogs! Mind you all the dogs were being food rewarded or had their toys, but Oh no! She was on her soap box good and proper. Sad thing was that she made an 'ass' of herself and discredited her organisation in front of a few hundred people, not to mention the fact that what she did was extremely rude. Now i'm not suggesting that this is how Delta educates people as this was based on the individual but she was clearly out of order and I don't need to justify to anyone why a dog is wearing a correction chain when there is no wrong being done to the dog. "The need to be right is the sign of a vulgar mind." Albert Camus

So what you're actually telling everyone is that there is only one way to train a dog and that's the way Delta trains? Funny because the people at NDTF and the students, (who look down their noses at eveyone (your words)) tend to be very open minded and excepting of all methods of training and they learn that not all dogs are the same, they are not human and they are not Dolphins. I'm pleased for you that you found a training method that suits you but don't personally attack NDTF people when it's based on your opinion.

Nope I haven't read or got the 3rd volume yet but it will sit in my collection soon

Nope not at Berwick on Saturday. I'm conducting a workshop for our trainers after Berwick but I will be at Springvale and Boronia on Sunday

It's for that exact reason that I don't lend books out anymore

Great news LL. You wont regret it!

Will you be giving out autographed photos? I'll ask my agent

That is a good book and so is Fogles book, the dogs mind