cactus

The trainer isnt associated with a club- he is a trainer with the 'Dog Tamers' franchise who apart from working training in peoples homes as dogtech does, also offers his services for dogs being boarded in the boarding kennel.

I dont believe they specified "only positive techniques used" to allay any fears the public might have that they were going to withdraw stimuli from the dogs environment during training. I really dont think the average Joe would even think such techniques exist. lol. I think it was deliberately misleading- as most people with a little knowledge of training would assume it was reward based training, and those without would probably think at the very least it avoids harsh methods. As it happens, I'm actually more annoyed by the deliberate misrepresentation than the rellie is.

I'd never heard a dog burp before the other night. I decided to use a new and irresistable treat at training- and boy, are kabana burps nasty! Right in my face too!

I agree Dianne. The rellie had to board her dogs for a week. Her Dane pup has been a real challenge for her- he is the boss in their relationship. She was almost at the point where she was going to get rid of him, because she just couldn't cope anymore. She thought while he was going to be boarded, he may as well get trained as well, so he would come back a little easier to deal with. The problem, is, that SHE needs the training. She doesn't understand the importance of the NILIF system and cant see how confusing and inconsistent her training is (she's pretty much trying whatever anyone says whenever she remembers). If I've told her once, I've told her a 1000 times... join an obedience class!!

Sad isn't it? If it were me, I would have met the guy and questioned him and asked for a demo of his techniques. Thats probably because I already got burned with Dogtech. This other guy was a Dog Tamer's trainer. The rellie is not one to make a fuss, but I thought I'd post about it as a reminder to newbs to really find out about the trainer they are thinking of entrusting with their dog.

I walk my girls together, and they are big, so I like a bit of discipline when we are walking. No pulling, no sniffing, no tripping me up, no straining to sniff passers-by etc. They are never onleash for long- mostly they play freely at a dog beach or park. They can sniff to their hearts content once we are there ed 2 remove empty space

A rellie booked a pup in for training at a boarding kennel. It was advertised as positive techniques only. But when she collected her dog, the guy said apart from herding dogs, ALL dogs should only EVER be trained with a check chain. Never use praise, pats or rewards- give a correction when wrong and say nothing when they do it right. Not so positive is it? Well what does one expect from a franchise? They do claim to tame your dog and give a life time guarantee. Well they sure whipped that dane into shape during that week, but of course the benefit hasn't transferred to real life, where said pup's owner wants to have a close and caring relationship with their dane and doesn't have the heart to be as cold as the trainers instructions require her to be. Not to mention that long slender puppy neck being yanked about... Now she has a guarantee, so she can take him back at any time for further *training*, but now that she knows what he was put through, she wont take him back there. Just shows how careful you have to be when selecting a trainer. She never even asked what system he uses- she saw the "positive techniques only" sign and went ahead with it. Funnily enough someone who had recommended this trainer said that he had done a marvelous job with her GSD, but that whenever they went back there the dog was terrified of the trainer. Good grief.

The way the poll is structured I cant answer honestly. :D I feed raw meat and offal, including chicken mince, lamb, pork, beef mince, liver, heart and kidneys (lamb chicken and beef), and chicken frames and necks as well as turkey necks. I dont feed dry food, but I add a fruit and vege mush that has a bit of fish and fish oil in it as well as ground seeds and wheatgerm) and they also have a weekly raw egg. I'm sure I'm missing out on something or other, but thats about it. ETA- I have had no food problems other than bones. I'd love it if the butcher could just grind me up a bag (I've stopped buying 'petmince as the fat content outweighed the benefit of the ground chook bone) Yeah I new I'd missed something- roo mince now comprises the bulk of the mince they get as its very lean and cheaper at $4 a kilo.

I was going to order that really cheap from an online pharmacy, but my pc has been playing up and I was at the chemist, so I got one called MSM joint formula. I hope it works, because she's becoming quite an irritable little biatch (just like her mum). :D Thanks for that info Annedal, I know what NSAIDs do to me, and I wouldn't want the worry that she was going through it and I was oblivious I'll cross that NSAID bridge if and when she ever gets so bad that the natural stuff doesnt work. They both get a little cod liver oil in their diets, but not enough to treat arthritis. I always try to err on the side of caution with supplements, and would rather give too little than too much ( they are on a very nutritious diet as well anyway). Do you know how much would be considered a therapeutic level?

Thankyou Janelle! That information is very interesting, thankyou for sharing it :D Unfortunately I've had computer woes since posting, and I went and bought a tub of powder at the chemist this arvo. There was one that had more glucosamine, but it had far less chondroitin 1000/200 per 15grams this one has 750/600 per 15 grams. I didnt have the information you gave in your post at the time, but I had a feeling I should go for the higher chondroitin. Oh its got MSM too750 per 15g. I dont know how much I should be giving her- her condition would be classed as mild I guess. I gave her 10g tonight, and figured I'd giver her 5g morning and night hereafter. She weighs about 34kg. I'll keep my eye out for your product when this one has run out

Also, do you need chondroitin? I notice some come with and other without it.

Oh Yay! What great news Pampa! :D

I notice it comes in different forms, and some have extra additives, eg: Are there any that dogs cant have? Does it matter if its human grade? I have only just started looking, because my vet has suggested NSAIDs for my old girl, but I'd rather go natural if I can, as its not like she's crippled or anything.

I have large dogs, I give them Chicken necks, Chicken frames and Turkey necks. They are given as part of their meal and not as treats. Anything else poses a problem for my dogs either of choking, puncturing, or breaking teeth. Many are also just too fatty. I get the frames in bulk from a butcher for $5 a box (approx 25) and the necks from woolies.

Oh dear. Would you say overall she is progressing? Be it ever so slowly/slightly? If so that has got to be a sure sign that she will recover, even if she is doesn't get back to being 100%- something like this surely has to take a toll. Does the vet not think mild sedation and/or crating is worthwhile to keep her calm? If not does that mean there is no harm done by the bruising and that its just a sign of the extent she has or hasnt healed? Sorry Pampa...too many questions too late at night

Thanks blacklab Why is it that others can express what I want to say better than I can? I reckon buckets and other plastics must leech as well- because you get that awful plasic taste. :rolleyes:

Except that in my post I specifically said I wasn't referring to real behavioural issues. I would also like to clarify that I 'm not saying that highly trained dogs are robotic, but that to an average dog owner whose dog has just had average training and enjoys his daily romps at the dog park and naps on the couch, a dog that doesn't show their personality through their likes/dislikes, quirks, choice of play etc etc because they have been highly trained to respond only to the trainers likes and dislikes, will seem, *by comparison* to be robotic- ie. programmed to respond on cue. I'm not making a value judgement, just trying to explain why some people may well decline to go further with training- it may not be laziness, lack of time or money. They may just prefer their diamonds in the rough state Yup- that's exactly right. :rolleyes: edited coz I stuffed up the quotes I understand that you mistook the poster lablover, but did you actually mistake my meaning when I used the term robotic? If so maybe my answer to K9 has clarified that for you

I'd heard that plastics, particularly when warm, can leach chemicals into the water, and I think bacteria are better able to grow but I'm not sure about that one. They warn about re-using spring water bottles for that reason- and say not to drink it if it has been lying around in the heat -even if you chill it :rolleyes:

Pebbles, apart from anything else, the check chain was useless for my needs because the dog was constantly straining at the end of the leash so there was no opportunity to apply a check. It was also removing hair from her throat and the skin was becoming quite raw (from her continual straining/choking herself which I was unable to stop because I couldn't apply a check...) Once she is able to walk perfectly on leash under all circumstances, *then* I might consider one as a collar (but not a chain- I'd go for leather), but I think I'd prefer a martingale anyway.

I can understand where Tess is coming from. Some of us really value our dogs personality to the point where we accept their foibles as part of them and look at perfectly trained dogs as somewhat 'robotic'. By foibles I dont mean real behavioural issues. But I guess its all a matter of perspective. Sure we all want our dogs to have the basics down pat, but beyond that, some of us enjoy seeing our dogs reveal their personalities and enjoy the world through unstructured (but supervised) play. Maybe its just that we are attributing human values to them- maybe they dont share that sense of freedom at all. Maybe it isnt mentally unhealthy for them to be utterly dependant and servile as it would be for us. I just enjoy the fact that my dogs can be happy without me. Geeze I might croak tomorrow so they'd better like playing with others!

Unfortunately there are still trainers out there who teach that you must yank on that chain very quickly and very hard in order for it to be effective. In fact, they advise that when the dog pulls, you turn quickly and yank real hard on that chain so that it HURTS. They say if you dont hurt the dog, then you are using it wrong and the dog will always pull and choke itself. Cruel to be kind I guess.. I tried one, and was shown what to do, but I wasn't strong enough to use it 'effectively' and it was very upsetting and making me sick doing it. I was told if I didnt have the guts to use it the way it was intended I shouldnt use it. So I stopped

I have a stainless steel bowl and two ceramic bowls. Stainless gets too hot outside in summer- even though its kept in the shade. I wouldn't drink hot water and I wouldn't expect my dogs to. I wash the bowls everyday before I fill them. Besides, they drink more when its fresh and clean. Its a small thing to do in the scheme of things, and I see it as my responsibility to provide fresh water at all times. One of my girls pushes her face into the water to drink, and has to blow out through her nose, so if I didn't clean the bowl out everyday it would be gross. I wouldn't wait till it went green. I know when my girls drink the water at the lake (which has algae in it) they get slight tummy upsets.

Fastgals, he does acknowledge the benefit of whats attached to the bone- he pretty much says its *that* which is of benefit and not the actual bone itself. In my case there were no dental benefits to feeding bones. She had been fed kibble for around 5 years of her life and had near perfect teeth. After a year of bones, she has undergone a tooth extraction (dont know the name of the tooth but its one of those big suckers on the side that are used for crunching the bones). I'm not saying WoW! Bones are bad! Dont feed them! But according to this guy's analysis of bone content they are not necessary, so that leaves us with the free choice to give them to our dogs purely because they enjoy them, if they are suitable. Those who cant or dont want to feed bones need not feel bad about not feeding them.

I dont accept the assertion that this article is anti raw food feeding. It states that the nutritional content of a bone is calcium and phosphorus. There is nothing more magical about bones than that. The bulk of the nutritional value of "raw meaty bones" comes from the *raw meat* and other soft tissues attached. You can serve that up without serving up bones. There *are* risks associated with eating bones, and dog owners must decide whether its appropriate for *their* dog given the available information. I feed my girls NOTHING but raw food. But my naughty girl swallowed small (by her standards) bones whole. She snapped medium sized bones in half and swallowed them. She gnawed and crushed large bones. She didnt care how big or jagged the pieces were- and I know she swallowed shards because I would find little pools of bile with bone fragments in it. She is not like most dogs when it comes to bones. I haven't heard anybody else complain that their dog swallows large turkey necks whole. Thats why I have to give them frozen. My understanding of this article is that she is missing out on exactly NOTHING as a result of not eating bones- meaty or otherwise. So that one more thing I can strike off my list of concerns....

I stopped feeding raw meaty bones a few months ago, because my girl broke them into shards, and I worried that she'd puncture her innards or break a tooth. (I was a bit late- today she had a broken tooth removed because it had gone bad). I give her fresh chicken frames and necks and frozen turkey necks- I freeze them to stop her swallowing them whole but have often wondered if she is missing out on anything important by no longer having those meaty bones. Well tonight I found this article which dissects the nutritional content of a raw bone.... http://www.thepetcenter.com/xra/bonecomp.html its interesting reading