Jeff Jones

Hmm.. ok. Well i mainly wanted a Rotti because i like the temperament and i have children. (plus i just love big solid dogs )

But i mean what are my options here? Rotti, Dobe, Shep.. are any other breeds accepted as security dogs?

Dutch and Belgian Shepherds but as I said before I wouldn't recommend them to you as a new dog handler .

Although many other breeds could undertake the job and be trained successfully as a security patrol dog most companies will limit the breeds they want used to the ones already mentioned in this thread.

I recommend new dog handlers to go with either a German Shepherd or Rottweiler.

Trying to find a good dobe these days is getting very hard, unfortunately.

I agree, it would take a lot of time to find a suitable pup.

I have not heard of too many problems with Rotty's running out of puff when they are working, the majority of security dog handler positions in Sydney are for static sites so the dog just has to complete routine site patrols. I do not recommend Belgian Malinois to new dog handlers.

My personal preference would be a Rotti but this may change with experience.

I have no experience other than obedience and working with rescue dogs for about 6 years with differing levels of issues and raising litters.. not sure if that counts.

I am really keen to learn and become a competent handler.

Ihave to start somewhere experience wise so i'm willing to do whatever it takes.

http://www.seeuferhauserottweilers.com.au/

Laurie from Seeuferhause is on the Specialist Canines website.

The handler may know his dog, but the suspect doesnt.

All a suspect sees is an aggressive dog, he doesnt know what its capable of or what its going to do. Its a dog, a large one, which has been trained to attack, most people will do what it takes to defend themselves instinctively.

Having said that, I see your point aswell and understand that they have a role to play, but what im saying is that ultimately, when they get hurt its the police that are at fault for putting them in a danger. As you say

The handlers put these dogs in danger so police officers do not get hurt

So the chance of the dog getting hurt is pretty good and everyone knows that as soon as the leash is uncliped.

Yes and that is a risk the police officer takes in deploying the dog, Yes it may get hurt. Police dog handlers are responsible for the deployment of the dog and do not have to deploy the dogs if they do not believe it is safe and reasonable. I think it shows with the number of police dog deaths this is taken pretty seriously. Only 4 police dogs have died whilst working in NSW.

If the person complies with police directions the dog does not get deployed whether you are making an apprehension or performing crowd control duties 99% of the time you are able to give a verbal warning of what is about to happen. If you do not want to get bitten by a police dog I suggest you comply when an officer yells out "dog squad stop or I will send the dog" "move back or you will be bit" "come out / identify yourself or I will send the dog"

The more a dog is used to intimidate someone, and the harder it "bites", the more chance it will get hurt. Ofcourse the guy hit it.

The handlers put these dogs in danger and I dont agree with it. The other month there was a case (im sure it happens alot, but this one was reported) were a dog was kicked and hit with a baseball bat.

The handlers put these dogs in danger so police officers do not get hurt, risks assessments and use of force continuum need to be applied in a short period of time based on the situation. You can remove canines for use in apprehensions but you have to realise you are creating a smaller gap in the use of force continuum scale.

A dog is not a human police officer. You dont know what the dog is going to do, if its going to attack, and if it does attack how sustained that attack will be, its only natural to defend yourself against an aggressive loose dog, whether its a police dog or otherwise. Then when these dog gets hurt they turn around and blame the suspect, when they are the ones that have put the dog in the dangerous situation in the first place.

I feel pretty safe in saying, yes you do know what the dog is going to do, which is why it has been justifiable to use dogs in Australia for policing roles for the past 75 years. You are acting as if the people who police deploy dogs on are innocent people walking down the road to the local shops to buy some bread and milk.

Fortitude Valley detectives are investigating

Investigating what exactly??

An idiot belted a dog and it gave a warning snap?? Should of bitten harder in my opinion!

They would be investigating what charges can be placed on the people involved. It would not have anything to do with the actions of the police dog handler

Hang on a minute Aidan, I think Tarope is on to something. I shall create a new training program for Government Departments and Security Dog Handlers to implement immediately. The program will consist of morning cuddles and afternoon walks along the beach.

And I guess they should deregister all the sch titled dogs, imports including.

But then that would cost them money as they would not be receiving money for ongoing memberships and registration of litters.

ANKC regulation that it is not to be done and that any club or person found to be doing it is in breach of the regulations and can be kicked out.

Sorry Dracdog, but that's an "urban myth" that has been going around for years and is simply not true. If it were true then there would have been dozens and dozens of WL breeders (GSD) and Dogsport enthusiasts of all Schutzhund breeds who are also VCA/ANKC members thrown out years ago.

NEVER HAPPENED and never will.

I agree, if they were that opposed to it they would of banned current members of IPO/Schutzhund clubs from registering with the ANKC. It is not hard to find out who is competing.

Jane Harper has been recommended a few times by members on this forum. http://www.dogsontrack.com.au

2 people have dropped out. the 2 remaining are yet to have there dogs tested.

the trainer had to reschedule the January appointment to March.

I guess the dates on the website are wrong?

Mia Skogster

(Finland)

Obedience Seminar

26 & 27 February 2011

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Mia Skogster is a working dog trainer and active competitor who has podium placed for the last 3 years in either or both of the FCI or FMBB World Championships.

Mia and her dog Helge are the first and currently the only dog/handler team in the world to get a full score of 100 points in obedience in a World Championship.

Obedience training is Mia’s great passion and during the last 10 years she has given seminar and lectures on the subject, trained hundreds of dog handlers in camps and training weekends throughout the world.

Mia’s seminars will tell you how to work your dog in obedience, starting from when he’s a puppy and continuing to a perfected trial performance. The goal is to create a dog that enjoys working with his master and is technically faultless, energetic and reliable. She will also cover preparing for trials and recovering from them, as well as maintaining a certain overall level.

Seminar attendance is unlimited however; handler & dog teams working with Mia at the seminar are limited to10 per day. To make application please fill out a registration form.

err actually you would be surprised how much damage a dog can do to a car, especially a modified police car

Having flashbacks to your joy riding days?

Whatever it is, it felt like 50 kg on me

My army friends have a Freddy (or is it Fred) brand and its well over 20kg.

I take it they are not from Australia? are they from Belgium? Yes the brand is freddy.

I wouldn't put on any bite suit that weighs over 20 kilos that is ridiculous.

Yes its heavy from what I understand about 20-25kg,

I highly doubt it is 20 - 25 kilos, most EOD (Bomb) suits weigh less than that.

Oh yeh rightio. He might be a fool to try and play with a police dog but is this some kind of joke or what ? He was charged with assaulting a police officer for patting and kissing the dog ?

Police allege the man became aggressive when asked to leave the dog alone and capsicum spray had to be used to subdue him.

He was charged with assaulting a police officer, resisting a police officer and failing to leave licensed premises when directed.

Sounds lke maybe the bolded part was what made them charge him, if he'd just been like "shorry offishers" and trundled off they prob wouldn't have given a crap. Just my opinion though I wasn't there.

I dare say it would be, seeing as the charge is for assaulting a police officer. He has not been charged with any offence for interfering with the police dog.

The dog is a police officer and the charge of assault police applies equally to the dogs (or horses) as it does to the human cops. My guess is the assault charge is for the initial offence against the dog, the resist is when they applied the spray and the refuse to leave is just so they could get the daily trifecta

No a Police Dog in NSW is not considered a "Police Officer" under any legislation in NSW. If a person was charged with "assaulting a police officer" for assaulting a police dog the case would be thrown out of court.

Oh yeh rightio. He might be a fool to try and play with a police dog but is this some kind of joke or what ? He was charged with assaulting a police officer for patting and kissing the dog ?

Police allege the man became aggressive when asked to leave the dog alone and capsicum spray had to be used to subdue him.

He was charged with assaulting a police officer, resisting a police officer and failing to leave licensed premises when directed.

Sounds lke maybe the bolded part was what made them charge him, if he'd just been like "shorry offishers" and trundled off they prob wouldn't have given a crap. Just my opinion though I wasn't there.

I dare say it would be, seeing as the charge is for assaulting a police officer. He has not been charged with any offence for interfering with the police dog.

Thanks for that info Jeff

So would an FCI line dog be softer than a KNPV line then? Is there a noticable difference between the two?

I dont suppose that having an FCI "pedigree" would make much difference here in Australia being that they're not a recognised breed here anyway?

Yes, The FCI line Dutch Shepherds are generally softer in temperament and smaller in size than KNPV line dogs.

I believe the ANKC will issue papers for the FCI pedigree Dutch Shepherds, the guys from CK9SAS would be the best to ask though.

I met two on a weekend from ck9sas.

As Jeff said - not for the faint hearted. A lot more serious then the malinois, larger and scarier looking too!

But after I had seen them work they have grown on me a bit.

Wow, I read somewhere that they are slightly smaller and slightly calmer than a Mal - guess that proves that you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet

Whats the go with crossing the Malinios and Dutch Shepherds though? I was under the impression that while they are similar they are still seperate breeds? Yet there seem to be a few Dutchies that have Malinios in their parentage

They do look awesome in action though! And stunning looking dogs to boot!

In the Netherlands the only difference between Dutch and Belgian Shepherds is the colour of there coat. You can get Dutch and Belgian Shepherds in the same litter. All Belgian Malinois have Dutch Shepherds in there pedigree, you just need to go back far enough.

The KNPV line Dutch Shepherds / Belgian Malinois are regularly crossed with the aim of breeding a superior working dog, the main aim of the KNPV program is to breed and train dogs suitable for police work. The KNPV is considered to be the best working dog breeding program in the world.

The FCI Dutch Shepherds hold pedigree papers and are able to compete in dog shows and various forms of dog sports due to there "pedigree papers" . Magically some KNPV line dogs are able to get FCI pedigree papers which get used in breeding programs to add size and hardness to the lines.

KNPV line dogs are more suited to police and military working roles, FCI line dogs are more common in Schutzhund/IPO events.

There are 2 main breeders in Australia with dogs from different working lines.

http://www.ck9sas.com.au/

http://www.workingdutchies.com/

They are not a breed for the faint hearted .

Yes you can have Audio/Visual recording.

if you want further details send me a pm and I can provide you with the sections of legislation that enable you to do so.

Having cameras put up finally to ensure Sasha's safety against the pigs next door (of the human kind - I'd rather the animal kind any day though)... but just wanted to know if it's possible to get them that have sound as well... or if it is even legal to have surveillance cameras with sound too attached to the house (looking in own yard only but along the fenceline)?

Thanks

Why do you want to have Audio as well as Video recording?

How absurd!

Are you being literal, Jeff? I just meant that no tool should be used as an alternative to training, as in, no one should just chuck a tool on their dog without really understanding how it works and knowing how to use it properly. I see too many people chuck tools on their dogs without understanding how to use them.

i.e. people who put head collars on their dogs and use them as a bandaid, with no understanding of how to use it properly - where as soon as the head collar comes off the dog starts pulling again and they become dependent on forever walking their dog on a head collar.

Sorry post was made with tongue in cheek.