Jeff Jones

I would take her in a heartbeat if you were talking about a German Shepherd. I would contact K9 Force as other posters have recommended.

Contact Erny who is on this forum she will be able to help you out or she will be able to recommend someone who can. http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showuser=5887

Just bumping this back up for you. http://www.dogsontrack.com.au/index.htm I am not sure if Jane is in the same area but she normally gets recommended to people looking for a trainer in QLD.

I hope you like big mac meals. I will be in Melbourne in March, I will be traveling rather lightly as I wont be able to bring any of my favorite dog training equipment. Damn Mexican Laws.

Oh - going to the MDBA conference by any chance?

Would you include me on your dance card, please Mr Jones? .

And whilst I agree "Damn Mexican Laws" .... you can have, but you just can't use. But then again, what's the point?

ETA: To the OP - sorry for the OT . Jeff has made me forget myself ..... .

ETA:

Would you include me on your dance card, please Mr Jones? .

I just realised this might embarrass Jeff if he thinks that not everyone might know I'm a girl ...... teehee

No, not the MDBA conference. I am completing some training courses and attending seminars. (not to do with dog training). And I do not think you want to see me dance

why do I have this image of Jeff commando crawling through the salt bushes with a bag of dog training equipment on his back in the middle of the night, nimbly dodging the border patrol

;) yeah, that sounds like something I would be in to.

I am tempted to try and sneak in one of your classes now with a nylon cord.

Hahaha ..... If you tried that, not only would you not be permitted to train in class (I'm very good at spotting cord leads since the hand injury incident - funny about that ..... but that's operant conditioning for ya ) but you would also be made to shout me dinner .

ETA: BTW .... Isn't it about time you were paying a re-visit to Melbourne?

I hope you like big mac meals. I will be in Melbourne in March, I will be traveling rather lightly as I wont be able to bring any of my favorite dog training equipment. Damn Mexican Laws.

Pro-K9 sells 7m Syn-Tek long-lines. These are exclusive to Pro-K9 and they are the ones I use, which is why I favour and sell them.

Pro-K9 leads and long-lines

ETA: No way would I use thin nylon cord. Due to the stupidity of a handler at dog training many years ago (who insisted that he could make things 'do') and me jumping to save his runaway dog from exiting onto the road, I lost the tip of one finger and severely cut into a couple of other fingers all because the thin cord zipped through my hand as I made a grab for it. Saved the dog, but there was a lot of blood and a LOT of pain that lasted me a good couple of weeks or more. I was lucky. I healed.

If anyone fronted in any of my classes with thin nylon cord for training with, they would be denied entry.

I am tempted to try and sneak in one of your classes now with a nylon cord.

I would go for the lead Erny has recommended, I have in the past received burns/blisters on my hands from handling thin material leads.

I always wear gloves when handling dogs using any thin material leads. They can do a fair bit of damage to your hands when you have to grab them suddenly.

http://airdogs.com.au/agility/product.php?...=255&page=1 This might be what you are after?

from what i saw in the video the dog was over stimulated and mouthed the handler.

The lifting of the dog with a choker collar will remove drive in most cases.

but this dog appeared to be a very hard GSD and the level of correction would need to be high.

Even after being lifted and pined the dog still didn't appear to be worried so I would put this dog in the hard category.

When the dog was lifted by the collar it still turned on the handler so the next level of correction wold have to be higher so the dog would learn that the behavior is unacceptable.

But this sort of problem should have been avoided in the first place. I have raised a few hard GSD and I put them on prong collars from a very young age and the word "no" has to be taught as soon as possible. The correction needs to be hard enough to startle the dog and cause it mild pain but as soon as it stops the behavior praise follows and lots of it.

It seems that dog had incorrect training to begin with.

Were you watching the same video as everyone else?

As has been said several times before that is not a "hard" dog by any stretch of the imagination. I have a dog in my lounge room that would be considered a "hard" dog, he has sent several dog handlers to hospital and has been passed around between different government departments. I am fairly confident in saying you would be seriously hurt if you attempted to correct this dog in such a manner.

So in those circumstances as everyone is saying what's happening in the video is wrong, then how do you fix it "easily" Jeff, can you give us some insight how the situation should be handled correctly???

That would depend on numerous factors, Donegal. How the dog was trained in the first place (too much too fast ???); what and how much the dog receives by way of drive satisfaction and so on. If the historical training can be faulted, then IMO that needs to be re-addressed first, before addressing the actual mouthing which does seem to be re-direction out of frustration. There is so much assumption in the watching of that video footage, but I saw a dog that was not balanced and I do strongly suspect that to be the result of training fault. So rather than singling out the mouthing, I'd be inclined to back up with the training a bit. Making sure the dog received drive satisfaction and making sure the dog knew the rules of the game to achieve drive satisfaction would be one of the things I'd like to investigate. If all checked out and/or was re-addressed and fixed, but the re-direction continued, I'd probably use any one of "correct" and/or "quit the dog". This would depend on the dog and how it responded to one or the other.

Don't know if Jeff would agree with me and he does have far more experience than I in the training of protection work (of which my experience is fairly close to nothing other than observation and a smidge of practical), so my apologies to him for stepping in here as I see your question, Donegal, was addressed to him.

Great post Erny. I have no problem with you stepping in. I would do exactly as you have said. Redirected aggression occurs because a dog is over stimulated, you need to take the training process back to step one and slowly build the dogs confidence in working around the trigger. The handler should not be attempting to undertake training with the dog in such an aroused state. I would have ended the training session with the dog after it first mouthed my arm.

ETA:

Saying perhaps that dog is prone to turning back on the handler and biting him when the dog gets ramped up, the other guy in the video instructing says "hold him down, don't let him win", so it looks like an alpha roll type thing to teach the dog that attacking the handler will result in the dog being overpowered and will loose the battle.

The problem is the handler lacks the experience, knowledge and competence in completing an effective correction / alpha roll to the dog. The trainer who is instructing the handler has put him in a dangerous situation with a dog that is known to redirect its aggression. This is not a smart training choice and not one I would use on a dog in such a high state of arousal.

It looks like the dog is trying to get someone outside of the video shot. When the handler holds the dog back it mouths him.

It isn't pleasant to watch but I am thinking the guy is more traumatized by it then the dog.

You can see the dog mouth the handlers arm in the first 4 seconds of the video. It is something that can be fixed quite easily and by using a lot less effort than what the handler is using / being told to use.

what was the dog actually doing wrong?

It was mouthing the handlers arm. You can see the dog doing it several times throughout the video.

I don't think any of us unless knowing the circumstances with that dog and what is trying to be achieved by the training could totally say that the training is wrong, could we, I don't know???

I do not care what the circumstances are regarding the dog, what the handler is doing is wrong.

I am assuming from watching the video that the handler is trying to correct the dog for mouthing his arm. The handler is an idiot and is obviously trying a new technique for correcting the dog to break this behaviour, the handler is listening to and following instructions from someone else, you can hear someone telling the handler what to do during the course of the video.

I may be completely wrong but I guess the handler was attempting to complete firearms training / tactical handling scenarios with the dog. The video starts with the handler in a tactical shooting position when the dog begins to mouth his arm.

I recommend you contact Erny who is a member on this forum. I am sure if she can not help you she will direct you on to someone who can.

Does anyone know how to contact her?

Thanks

Click on either of the below links:

Erny

prok9 contact

I recommend you contact Erny who is a member on this forum. I am sure if she can not help you she will direct you on to someone who can.

Customs overall has a fairly poor pay comparison compared with other government departments.

''Customs dog handlers love their dogs and they love their jobs. But they can't understand why management are treating them like second-class citizens.''

You work for the government, get used to it.

It is not needlessly getting injured, the dog is completing a task, one which it was trained and deployed to complete. This was done as the handler believed the dog would be the best tactical tool to be used at the time. The officer would have taken in to consideration injury to the dog, injury to the offender and injury to colleagues and community members. I fail to see how you can call injuries sustained to a police dog during the course of its duties as needless, obviously there was a need to deploy the dog otherwise the handler would not have unlatched the leash.

The handler does have the option of not deploying the dog if they believe it is not safe to do so. This officer obviously believed it was the best tactical option available for the apprehension of the offender and I fail to see how anyone can criticise his choice in doing so. It assisted with the apprehension of the offender without serious injuries to the officers involved, an outcome that might not have happened had they chosen to use a different tool or means for apprehending the offender.

If the offender was compliant with police instructions or not committing an offence at the time he would not have had a police dog deployed on to himself. The offender is responsible for his actions which made police believe the dog was the best tool to use at the time to assist with the apprehension.

The Police/Council and Vets have all been contacted but there has been no results.

They have been missing for 2 weeks now with no help from Brisbane Police, Council or Vets so I am just trying to get the word out...

So the police are not investigating the theft? or they are not producing results?...

Brad, i'm not getting anyone to make calls on my behalf, u're all trying to get a picture and u have no idea what's going on, so get ur facts straigh, the pups are not mine and they're not from working lines.

I think you have a case of foot in mouth disease. I did not mention in my previous post to whom the abusive / threatening phone calls were made...

I dare say you should be the last person to be giving opinions as to what is stupid and what isn't. If you are worried about the breed receiving bad publicity maybe you should put a lot more effort in to finding suitable homes for the mongrels you have bred. Do not try and claim the moral high ground as the breed would not have received any publicity if it wasn't for your poor judgment and breeding practices.

Speaking of people with too much time on there hands, How come you have had people make abusive and threatening phone calls on your behalf?

maby if he does something wrong should i growl at him? should i stare at him through the glass until he backs down?? should i not be scared? can a dog sence my fear, and use it to its advantage?

Wow is all I can say. You will only make the situation worse if you do any of those things and you will be extremely lucky if you do not get hurt in the process.

I hope you contact the owner asap and make alternative arrangements for the housing of this dog as you are clearly not ready or qualified to be looking after him.

Hey Jeff. Long time no speak. Good to see you.

Do you mean yours will ONLY eat chicken? (If so, this is similar/same as Mandela.)

Or do you mean yours will eat everything BUT chicken?

He will only eat chicken frames - wings - necks - legs. He will not eat chicken mince or any other type of meat or bones.

Erny, I have the opposite problem, I have a dog here who wont eat anything but chicken. To Mandela

I stand by my statement that doing obedience alone is not enough work for most good working line belgians. They want to really work. Some people get lucky (or unlucky) and get calm WL dogs that might cope with only a walk and an obedience training session per day, but I feel it's borderline irresponsible to suggest a person get one simply for obedience work.

I agree.

I'd like to see a police dog trainer get a reliable heel out of a Basenji.

Yes that seems like the ultimate challenge. I have seen a Basenji trained by a police dog handler to indicate on TNT - Primer Cord - C-4 - Ammonium Nitrate- Black and smokeless powders and different form of water gels but I did not notice whether this dog had the level of training to perform a nice heel.