Jeff Jones

Damn, It is still alive.

Tarope I still fail to see the relevance of answering that question.

It's not a hard question to answer, how many ?

Neither is my question of its relevance?

I don't have a problem with telling people how many breeds I have owned, so why do you ?

Anyone else on DOL would have no problem answering this simple question, the relevance is I don't think you've owned the breeds I have am I right ?

I always thought you lacked intellect until your last post Tarope. I now realise you are incredibly intelligent and gifted. You will somehow be able to work out what breeds of dog I have owned by me giving you a numerical value. I am impressed. 12.

Damn, It is still alive.

Tarope I still fail to see the relevance of answering that question.

It's not a hard question to answer, how many ?

Neither is my question of its relevance?

Damn, It is still alive.

Tarope I still fail to see the relevance of answering that question.

Judging by her prefix I would have to give her top points.

Yes, I can see a need for trialing them as they are completely different to Belgian Shepherds...

20 years ago....we've evolved since then.

Nope, Lilli is still waiting for a trainer to complete the assessment on her dog. I quite frankly do not have the time or patience to chase up people who have not attended there designated training days / assessments.

I've not heard of a police dog anywhere in the world trained successfully with purely positive training, but that's not what we're talking about.

I guess it depends on your definition, but Steve White was doing what I would consider to be purely positive training.

I have seen Steve train dogs completing tracking and obedience but have never seen or heard about Steve completing bitework using purely positive methods.

AFAIK they can, they fall under the same category as the Belgian Shepherd. The list that has been put up in this thread is stating "recommended / common breeds" of dog that are eligible to compete in Schutzhund.

I don't think that Dutchies are an eligible breed for Schutzhund competition are they???.

Great looking dogs

Dutchies have now been recognised by the ANKC and so dogs with FCI papers can get them registered with the ANKC. I assume this means that they are eligible for SchH now in this country as they would fall under FCI eligible breeds?

Dutchies are not listed on the FCI eligible Schutzhund breeds overseas either to my knowledge???. Obviously they would have great sporting potential but I couldn't find any entered in the results of any overseas Schutzhund tournaments???.

BREEDS ELIGIBLE FOR SCHUTZHUND TRAINING

German Shepherd Dog, Boxer, Dobermann, Rottweiler, Giant Schnauzer, Airedale Terrier, Bouvier Des Flandres, Hovawart, Belgian Shepherd (Groendael, Malinois, Tervueren, Laekenois), Berger de Beauce, Berger de Brie, Berger Des Pyrenees A Face Rase, Berger Des Pyrenees A Museau Normal, Berger Picard, Lapinkoira, Suomenpystykorva

The breeds above are the current FCI listing???

So you can do Schutzhund with a Finnish Spitz and a Finnish Lapphund (which I have never heard of doing any sort of manwork) but not a Dutch Shepherd (which are famous for KNVP)?

It appears so???. Some KNPV Malinois are not eligible either I was told once, something to do with their pedigree???.

You can not title a KNPV line Malinois / Dutch Shepherd because they will not have FCI pedigree papers. KNPV line dogs are normally Mechelse Herder X Hollandse Herder (Belgian X Dutch Shepherds). It is rather funny though as having a Belgian / Dutch Shepherd with FCI papers is no guarantee it is purebred.

Hi Naive.

3 out of the 4 people involved have made appointments with trainers and not shown up to have their dogs assessed. (Some have made multiple appointments) I realise emergency and family situations can pop up but I fail to see how in one instance the person made 5 separate appointments claiming they could not attend each one on the day because of “family emergency”.

I have gone to the expense of finding independent and highly qualified dog trainers for people to get there dogs assessed by to end up with the trainers telling me to date no one has kept their original appointments.

Lilli has been patiently waiting to have her dog tested and will hopefully be booked in to have it done soon.

if you turn your speakers off and you ignore the over emotional messages at the top of the screen it isn't too bad.

Sadly this is the second story along these lines I've heard this week. The other one is to do with a failed police dog that my sister and brother in law took into their home.

They thought it was a good way to get a 'free' dog and because she was 'too lazy' to make a police dog it would be a good idea. The dog is beautiful, fantastic temperament, great with the kids and is bored out of its skull and is now chewing everything in sight.

The solution - she has to go. Poor puppy will be bumped on to another home with no idea about whether the home is suitable or not. GRRRRRRRRRR...........I know it would be difficult for them to make the time to train the dog and I know that they know they have made a bad decision, but I just hate to see the dog suffer for their (and the original rehomer's) stupidity.

I would be interested to know the details and person involved with the re homing of this dog, I have known the person in charge of the QLD Police Dog Squad for quite sometime and this does not sound right to me.

ETA: Just to clarify things, did your friend get this "failed police dog" from someone working for the QLD Police Dog Squad or did they obtain the dog from someone not working for QP who said the dog tried out for the Dog Squad and failed?.

It sounds like William Koehler is back from the dead. I would be putting in complaints with the clubs involved.

Apart from Koehler's behavioral correction processes which were blatently stupid, I have always thought his leash training methods were not too bad when following his system from the beginning. I have seen the result of many dogs trained in Koehler methods with magical off leash obedience

Reliability off lead should always be the most significant criterion when evaluating and comparing training methods

It sounds like William Koehler is back from the dead. I would be putting in complaints with the clubs involved.

I would send it back as well. I have always received good customer service from Innotek.

But hang on a minute ..... there was a discussion ages ago about the "dog warning" signs. I think it was Jeff (DOL member) (not sure) who mentioned that if someone is told what could happen and that person still, knowingly, continues to do what they did, then there is NO argument against the dog. Something along those lines ...................

Hi Erny.

I can not remember that thread? I have done some searching but nothing useful turned up. I will have another scroll through later.

...and hi Danois.

I believe in SA, the security officer must hold a dog handlers certificate and any dog can then accompany them on patrol.

As far as I know it is the same all over Australia.

We are in the central west atm,but will be relocating,possibly just north of Newcastle.Hopefully with in a year.

The dog he hopes to use is terrific,but has only been a family dog and we would want her well prepared and assessed for such a role before she ever goes out into that situation.If she will have problems there is another he can raise and train specificaly for the job.

I do not know of anyone in Newcastle. I would suggest the person travels out to see K9 Force for a honest opinion of the dog's suitability.

I certainly don't want him going into this with a badly trained dog and he was told his dog itself needs no sort of accreditation?! eek1.gif

That is correct, there is no individual accreditation for security dog's.

Where about in NSW are you located, I might be able to recommend someone.

Having no accreditation for security dogs presents a problem where I have met several security officers in SA and one in NSW with untrained pet GSD's on the job for visual deterrent

I agree and have been recommending for quite sometime that the NSW Security Industry Registry implements changes so individual dog's need to seek accreditation prior to working.

I certainly don't want him going into this with a badly trained dog and he was told his dog itself needs no sort of accreditation?! eek1.gif

That is correct, there is no individual accreditation for security dog's.

Where about in NSW are you located, I might be able to recommend someone.

I have given traffic cones to my dog's in the past with no problems, the heavy duty traffic cones are made from rubber and polyethylene which is used in many dog toys.

I bet he is going to use his website to announce to everyone that he is running off and joining the French Foreign Legion.

To be honest I would look in to the work and research for at least 6 months before rushing out and getting your dog. Go along to training sessions, watch and learn. A working line Rotti is going to need an experienced hand and as you also have your kids and I think (?) other dogs, it's best you gain more knowledge first. Through this experience and research I am sure you will then gain more knowledge of breeders and the type of Rott you are after.

I agree with doing as much research as possible first.

Can anyone recommend where i might find a suitable Rotti?

I provided a link for a suitable breeder of rottweilers a few pages back for you to look at.

Rottis are not cumbersom or unfit ... maybe the fat ones. They were bred as a working breed

I say go with a rottweiler if that is what you prefer

How many Rotties did you see beat Nordenstamm Chiller on the long bite ;) The best Rotti will be slower on the field than the heaviest GSD.

This is not a factor worth considering when choosing a suitable breed of dog for Security work, Security dog handlers can not let there dogs go offlead. The main reason companies use dogs is to firstly act as a visual deterrent. ;)