Shampoo

[poodlefan]

Peachie how big is your client base?

If you don't want to wash a dog in a product you know is harmful and you don't want to wash a dog and not blow dry it... why don't you "just say no"?

I know my groomer (before I started doing my own dogs) gave her clients a choice - have them done the way she wanted to do it (which in her professional opinon was best for the dog) or take the dog elsewhere.

If you are doing things that you don't believe are in the dog's best interests, it's your reputation you put on the line.

I honestly believe that there are some clients you'd probably be better off without.

[Peachie]

I know what you are saying Poodle, however i feel that if i dont do it, they are only going to get somebody else to do it. As i have learned from this thread, Woolmix isnt a good product to wash a dog in. I hadnt known that it was harmfull before, and havent seen this client since then (due next week). I will definately be talking to them and i think they will probably discontinue having me use woomix. This will bring back the other issue of him getting smelly shortly after a bath, which will allow me to bring up the blow drying suggestion/solution. I honestly feel this was the problem in the first place. If i explain it to them properly, and approach it tactfully, i think they will agree that the dog really needs to be blow dried. The other benefit, to them, is that i can get a really good look at his skin by blow drying him, as well as the obvious benefit of getting rid of extra hair. They do brush him regularly, however as we all know, nothing works as well as a good blow drier on that type of coat.

My client base is certainly big enough to drop this one client, but i do care about the dog, if i am doing him i can be sure that if any issues arise they will be told about it.

To be honest i have just let it go till now, but if that woolmix is causing irreparable damage, then it is time i talked with them about his wellbeing. I have suggested blow drying so many times, and perhaps they thought i just wanted to raise the price. It isnt an easy job, he doesnt really love his bath, and is not happy about the blow dryer on the occasions i have done it, but he will get used to it.

The easy option yes, would be to say no and drop the client, but they are a long term client, i washed their previous dog, and they like the job i do (and of course, they are nice people).

Now i can go to them with a definitive reason not to use WM, and as to why he should be blow dried. IF they then say no, keep using the woomix and we dont want him dried, i will consider dropping them. (love to see somebody else put up with this dog's antics....)

Thanks for that tho Poodle, has given me something to think about. I will let you know how it turns out next week.

[poodlefan]

I hear you Peachie.. sometimes you have to balance the dog's interests against the client's idiot factor...

You must feel like saying... you'll follow the practices of your neighbour.. .but not the advice of me, the professional groomer?? Gee if the neighbour washed the dog in caustic soda would you do that??

My groomer started out pretty accomodating but while she's very pleasant, she's very assertive. Don't want the dog groomed (this is poodles or schnauzers) a maximum of every six weeks? Find another groomer. Don't brush the dog between visits? I'll charge you double for the dematting this time and next time find another groomer....

You'd be amazed how many of her clients start to toe the line.

ETA: Oh, and the dog misbehaves?? Start working on that or... find another groomer.

Edited July 12, 2007 by poodlefan

[espinay2]

Peachie, why don't you offer to blow dry once for free so they can assess the difference for themselves. Then they can make the choice of whether they get their dog blow dried or not from then on.

Personally for fluffies (actually for all dogs) I don't offer blow drying as an 'added extra' - it is factored in as part of the base grooming price.

[Poodle wrangler]

The wealthy ones are probably the worst to extract $ from. Friends of mine are multi-millionaires and had about 8kg of puppy food left over (pup became adult). You'd have thought I had 2 heads when I suggested they donate it to rescue .

I think you'd be surprised how well you do with being firm with people. They'll respect you for it. Once they come around, they'll be more loyal than ever and will give you excellent word-of-mouth business. Those that don't come around? You're better off without them. Can't you hear it now, "Why didn't the groomer insist I didn't use Woolmix?". (Hope they don't read this thread).

[Ari]

I vote for the lack of blow drying being a factor in him getting stinky too. Ask them what the point in washing a dog is, if they are going to leave him wet to pick up every little bit of dirt on his wet coat before its dried. Add to that the fact that leaving some dogs wet can contribute to them getting skin problems/fungus which means SMELL. You'll turn them around!!

[Peachie]

Espinay, as mentioned, i have done free blow dries several times in the past. I dont think they realise what a difference it will make doing it one off. We shall see what happens after i talk with them next week.

Poodle, i hear ya.... do i what.

I have always been the one with the problem with putting prices up, charging what i am worth etc.

More recently tho, i am very much more stick to my guns than i used to be. I am very 'calm assertive' with my clients and with their dogs. (yes, i have been watching dog whisperer - i dont take what he says as gospel, however i have picked up a lot from him).

If i cant do what they require for their dog in the grooming area (only do basic stuff) then i will tell them straight off, and with new clients with fluffies, noodles or dogs that i know need a blow dry for the best result, i factor it into the original price.

[anthony mazzeri]

A very interesting thread as I've always wondered myself why special 'dog shampoos'! From Poodlefan's provided link:

The pH of human skin typically ranges from 4.5 to 6.0

Canine skin is more alkaline than human skin, with a pH range of 5.5 to 7.2

A few thoughts of my own to add if I may - 7.0 is neutral pH, so I read that as both humans and dogs skins are 'acidic'. Only the very uppermost of the dogs range can be considered 'neutral to a tad alkaline'. So from these quoted figures, it's a matter of humans just being more acidic than dogs, with some crossover between the two.

Then again, being a serious aquarium hobbyist, I'm wondering now about the water itself? The water coming out of your tap varies in pH from area to area depending on the carbonate hardness levels of the water. My own tap water pH is 6.6 for instance, which is slightly acidic. So according to all the arguments about dogs needing alkaline shampoo - simply rinsing my dog in plain water from the tap/shower would be bad for his skin!

But shampoo is all about the hair, isn't it? Alkaline shampoos raise the hairs' cuticles, which makes the hair look dull and lifeless on both man and beast, which is not a good look. So the only thing I suspect to really avoid regarding dogs' skin is shampooing with special 'neutralising' or 'low-pH' shampoos. A quality human 'pH-balanced' shampoo (which means it contains a buffering agent to keep it slightly less than neutral pH 7.0 as it binds with the more alkaline dirt and grime) sounds like it should be perfect for dogs, and make the hair look shinier, softer and healthier. I'm sounding like an advert now!

PS. Baby shampoo is made more alkaline simply to avoid stinging if it gets into the baby's eyes. It's a marketing thing, eg, the 'no more tears' thing, not a scientific thing to do with skin or hair or anything. The same way they add foaming agents to shampoo to make it foam like soap. Detergent doesn't actually foam, and nobody bought it for that reason when they first introduced it. No science, just marketing - what can we do to it so we can sell it?

[Koza]

As a chemist I think this argument about pH 6 or 7.5 is crap... as Anthony mentioned, water will wash it all off. If the dogs skin is dry, the shampoo shouldn't be too harsh. I wash both guys in "non-soap" hand wash from pharmacy, its very mild and leaves some coating on hands. Works OK, especially with sardines :rolleyes:

[Poodle wrangler]

I'm having trouble with 'dog shampoo is better' argument, too. How can you even assess when there's no ingredient list?

I don't see a better result with "pet" shampoos. I can't believe the prices at pet shops, either :rolleyes:. $12.99 for 250ml and that's the cheaper stuff.

Sorry, dogs, but you're still getting the human shampoo I don't like any more or something "on special" at the supermarket .

[Benji's Mum]

I suspect I ended up with a few dominance probs from my youngest bitch when I used human products on Benji.

Sticking to dog shampoo, she seems to prefer the smell. :rolleyes:

[poodlefan]

I'm having trouble with 'dog shampoo is better' argument, too. How can you even assess when there's no ingredient list?

I don't see a better result with "pet" shampoos. I can't believe the prices at pet shops, either :rolleyes:. $12.99 for 250ml and that's the cheaper stuff.

Sorry, dogs, but you're still getting the human shampoo I don't like any more or something "on special" at the supermarket .

You need to shop around a bit PW.. I pay about $11 per litre for the shampoo I use most frequently.

[Jed]

It;s amazing, isn't it? The woman who owns the dog down the street recommends Woolmix, or Pears or something, so they use it!!

Like going to a gardener for advice on dog breeding!!

I tell my puppy buyers I'll smack them upside of the head if they use Woolmix or human shampoo on their dog!!

All dog shampoos don't suit all dogs either, so you need to make sure the dog isn't scratching or anything after his bath.