BrunoBella Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 (edited) Nice to see an intelligent and semi-civil thread on e-collars on DOL. These threads are generally swamped with so much emotional BS and ignorance that they quickly become worthless. Have been trying to keep this topic nasty free with some success Mark - GREAT POST. IMO clicker is great for some dogs and in some situations. High distraction recalls (eg chasing rabbits) with game driven dogs isn't one of the those situations in my experience.I've trained with a clicker/total positive instructor that could not recall her GSD from running deer (deer are everywhere in that part of the USA), the instructor had been working with her dog and the clicker for 3 years without success, her refusal to use an e-collar meant the dog never dog any off-leash running. My poor, e-collar abused, birddogs on the other hand where romping through the woods off-leash on a daily basis. Some people just don't want to listen or to change their mind. I am happy to see your ecollar abused, birddogs romping off leash in the bush . That's what I want for mine. BP Good on you for getting past the ignorant rubbish that abounds on the internet and trying e-collars for yourself. Going through a knowledgeable pro is the best approach. As you've discovered e-collars can be a great training tool for the real world, where your recall is challenged constantly. Having 100% recall will enable you to give the dogs so much more freedom and off-leash exercise - they'll love it. A thought you might like to consider, I also train 100% sit. I use a whistle, which I think carries better than human voice. Everytime my dog hear that whistle they sit. Then I have the choice of either recalling, or going to the dogs. There have been times, such as when I've seen a snake near by for eg, that I want to pick the dogs up quickly, but don't want them to come back to me (toward the snake). So I sit them, then go to them and get the heck out of there!! Thanks for the encouragement and success story working_setters (and pointers) . I'm a step ahead of you on the whistle to sit. My setup has a vibration pagers . I plan to use this to teach them to sit in place, drop in place (for granny's jumping out of the bush) and to recall. I will use different repeats on the pager. eta - typo Edited January 16, 2008 by BellasPerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 ..the reason I use a clicker over a voice marker is because I coordinate better that way. I click more accurately than I remember to say 'yes' and it also means I won't accidently mark something I dont' want by getting excited and using my vocal marker! I do use 'yes' when I can't have the clicker just in case though. Some people will be the opposite and click late, just depends on the handler. I am much better on voice than clicking . I agree I was expecting all clicker trainer to be purely positive only cause that's the only ones I've seen. Fortunately, Kavik knew the correct answer. Happy clicking and Happy ecollaring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Working_Setters Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Thanks for the encouragement and success story working_setters (and pointers) . I'm a step ahead of you on the whistle to sit. My setup has a vibration pagers . I plan to use this to teach them to sit in place, drop in place (for granny's jumping out of the bush) and to recall. I will use different repeats on the pager. Sounds good. Just be careful with the vibration feature, some dogs react negatively to it. Introduce it gradually with your guys and carefully judge their reaction. Talk to K9, I recall him posting that he'd experienced something along these lines with the vibration feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 Will do. K9 said to introduce it after proofing at all distraction levels. So not today!!! We're going along very well. Adding in new levels of distraction with very few problems. I think it helps that I know exactly what will distract my dogs the most . Back to my vino...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpielover Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 BP Just for interest Which approach did you go with on introducing the collar ? (I know this is of more interest/relevance in the weaning off stage but I am curious) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share Posted January 17, 2008 I decided my goal was to have the dogs trustworthy off lead in any situation and to leave the collar on even when they no longer need it. To fit this scenario I put the collar on and use it straight away. I leave it on most of daylight hours if I'm training twice a day. Today it has not been on at all..... more rain. Do you use an ecollar as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpielover Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Yep, more so to add reliability at distance. Spent a fair amount of time (2-3 wks) doing nothing but letting her wear it and finding the lowest possible working level (about 16-17 on the dogtra, I tested it and couldnt even feel it till it got to 19-20) Recall was 100% within 3 sesssions and it meant at christmas she could go for a swim off leash at the river, with me still being confident I could call her back if a ski boat was coming near. Having spent two years trying alternatives but still having limited sucess around moving objects at distance and she is so fast there is never a large margin for error, I am comfortable it was a good investment. (the manual from Steve has some nice straight forward instructions that were very effective) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 (edited) Yep, more so to add reliability at distance. Spent a fair amount of time (2-3 wks) doing nothing but letting her wear it and finding the lowest possible working level (about 16-17 on the dogtra, I tested it and couldnt even feel it till it got to 19-20) Recall was 100% within 3 sesssions and it meant at christmas she could go for a swim off leash at the river, with me still being confident I could call her back if a ski boat was coming near. Having spent two years trying alternatives but still having limited sucess around moving objects at distance and she is so fast there is never a large margin for error, I am comfortable it was a good investment. (the manual from Steve has some nice straight forward instructions that were very effective) Sounds like you made fantastic progress fast. It was a good investment :p and I agree, steves manual is straightforward. My FridayUpdate: I had a fantastic ecollar day today. Both dogs are up to nearly their top distractions - Possums at night for bella and butterflies for Bruno. Tonight, as we were coming home bella spotted possums above us and started her beautifull highpitched screaming. I corrected her with the martingale and made her sit. I then pulled out my remote and let her out on her long lead practicing recall, sit and saad. She did them all! Bit of a delay, of course, as its her first time. But this is all 2 weeks into training and we are already working on her highest level of distraction. I repeated the exercise with bruno, but he does not have as many distractions as Bella so he was great from the first moment. On low distraction, both dogs are doing avoidance rather than escape. Once we have them both sorted we just have to do Proofing which is gradually removing the stimulations for the commands. I love my ecollar ;) Just as a general information, both dogs will recall while we're walking now so I very rarely have to correct using the martingale, and, Bella has moved from her prong to a martingale without resorting to pulling eta--- I have also been working very hard on leadership. Edited January 18, 2008 by BellasPerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriment Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Hey BP, You know this "velcro dog" thing?? Well how's this - was doing some recall work with Norman the other night while my OH was swimming. Used him in the pool as distraction, to create some distance, to get an opportunity to guide him on the recall!!! Anyway, that worked, and we did some work around the pool. Then I put the remote down, took my thongs off, etc and got into the pool via the steps. Norman got on the top step to bite at the water - as he always does. I then dived off the steps under the water and when I came up, my OH said "he's behind you". I said yeh, I know. He said "No, I mean he's RIGHT BEHIND YOU". Velcro??? You bet - he dived off the step at the same time I jumped and was right behind me. Well... I guess I had just spent the last 10 minutes telling him to come, he was just doing as he was told... :rofl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 A velcro swimming JRT.... I love it I have been practicing inside as well and find both dogs now follow me to the bathroom and to my bedroom which are normally out of bounds . Much better than the previous run away dogs. We have been working on distraction levels out in the big wide world so today I ran both dogs through all the exercise in the backyard again and they were spot on! Next I have to find a bigger yard or a longer lead cause this is getting too easy for them. They also follow all the commands without their collars/leads on . Week three coming up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Carthy Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) Deleted at OPs PM request. . Edited January 21, 2008 by Denis Carthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) deleted.. Edited January 22, 2008 by BellasPerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emily Howard Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Hello Just thought I join in on this, in support of ecollars (being used correctly of corse). I also have dog who without the help of this torture device, would never have been allowed to run off leash. Now I can let her off in the presence of horses, I can take her on trails where there are often wallabies, goannas and all sorts wildlife and know I have complete control of her and she has as much freedom that I consider safe for her and all the other animals. Just the other day at the park a Boxer came charging towards us with the owner yelling out after it. I was about 20m from my dog, I told her to sit, she did. I called to the owner and asked if her dog was friendly. He was, so I released my girl and they had a good run. It was just really nice to have a perfectly behaved dog and not once did I have to stim her. BP and MM It's great to hear of your progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 Just thought I join in on this, in support of ecollars (being used correctly of corse). I also have dog who without the help of this torture device, would never have been allowed to run off leash. Now I can let her off in the presence of horses, I can take her on trails where there are often wallabies, goannas and all sorts wildlife and know I have complete control of her and she has as much freedom that I consider safe for her and all the other animals. Just the other day at the park a Boxer came charging towards us with the owner yelling out after it. I was about 20m from my dog, I told her to sit, she did. I called to the owner and asked if her dog was friendly. He was, so I released my girl and they had a good run. It was just really nice to have a perfectly behaved dog and not once did I have to stim her. BP and MM It's great to hear of your progress. What a fantastic result you had being able to control your dog in the presence of animals . That's my aim as well but I'm not quite there yet. Another couple of weeks. The sit at a distance is fantastic. My two picked this up very easily because of the training course we're following. I am doing this to give my dogs more freedom :p , as you said, without endangering the safety of other people and animals. Can't wait to try it out in the real world but I have to be patient or Steve will beat me up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 MM: Norman got on the top step to bite at the water - as he always does. I then dived off the steps under the water and when I came up, my OH said "he's behind you". I said yeh, I know. He said "No, I mean he's RIGHT BEHIND YOU".Velcro??? You bet - he dived off the step at the same time I jumped and was right behind me. K9: I do have a pic of 3 or 4 of my dogs swimming with me in a heel pattern... I must dig that out... lol.. EH: Just the other day at the park a Boxer came charging towards us with the owner yelling out after it. I was about 20m from my dog, I told her to sit, she did. I called to the owner and asked if her dog was friendly. He was, so I released my girl and they had a good run. It was just really nice to have a perfectly behaved dog and not once did I have to stim her. K9: Great to hear your still going very well EH... BP: Can't wait to try it out in the real world but I have to be patient or Steve will beat me up K9: well your reasonably safe way up there, but I am working on a long distance e collar so I can keep those doing Distance Learning Packages in line.... lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 BP: Can't wait to try it out in the real world but I have to be patient or Steve will beat me up K9: well your reasonably safe way up there, but I am working on a long distance e collar so I can keep those doing Distance Learning Packages in line.... lol.. Thank goodness I'm safe . I won't be purchasing a long distance ecollar for myself :D We had another success today. It was finally time to add my last level of distraction at home - possums. I left the dogs in the backyard and waited for 6pm for the possums to appear. Both dogs started making their possum racket and running in circles. I called them and stimmed them and they ran over to me. It has never never been this easy to remove my dogs from the possums . Bruno usually takes 15 minutes of coaxing and bella can take 2 hours. Also, both dogs are so worn out from all the mental stimulation that they spend heaps more time sleeping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriment Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 We had another success today. It was finally time to add my last level of distraction at home - possums. I left the dogs in the backyard and waited for 6pm for the possums to appear. Both dogs started making their possum racket and running in circles. I called them and stimmed them and they ran over to me. It has never never been this easy to remove my dogs from the possums . Bruno usually takes 15 minutes of coaxing and bella can take 2 hours.Also, both dogs are so worn out from all the mental stimulation that they spend heaps more time sleeping Hey BP - congrats, that's BRILLIANT news!!! You must be absolutely thrilled. I'm grinning for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Wow! This sounds like a fantastic course. I would really love to give it a go with Daisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 Daisy is even the right type of dog - has lovely pointer ears Better warm up your credit card cause there's a bit of a cost incurred... Go on, sign up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Daisy is even the right type of dog - has lovely pointer ears Better warm up your credit card cause there's a bit of a cost incurred... Go on, sign up Beagle ears are better than pointer ears :p and way cuter too :p I think I will ask our trainer about the e-collar, it sounds like a great training tool to use on a hound doggie. Can the e-collar you use for training your GSPs be used as an anti-bark collar too? There is one thing about beagles, they love the sound of their own voice! I am almost at the end of my tether with the barking, I feel like I have tried everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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