Guest Piximatosis Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 How did you teach it, and how long did it take you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bordacollies4me Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 How did you teach it, and how long did it take you?:D * with a clicker * a very high rate of reinforcment, dog was a food vaccum for the first few paces... * then keeping the reinforcement high and clicking for all four feet on the ground head high and towards me... * gradually fade the rewards so you can heel in anywhere with minimal rewards , and only using rewards now and then to keep dog on its toes and never knowing when a reward is on the way... How long did it take??? Not completly sure but 6 - 8 sessions with my new puppies have them in a nice heel position which is when i start to fade the rewards... really all depends on how often you train and rate of reinforcement... Higher rate of reinforcement quicker the dog will learn the behaviour... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I train it TOT style in a static position, using a lure and word marker at first, before releasing to food bowl/target increasing focus time each session. When the dog holds unbroken focus for a good few minutes, I will then start to add hand signal and take one step and halt, before releasing to target. I then slowly increase the amount of steps while walking in a straight line before halt/release........and break off if dog loses focus and jog backwards and reward the dog for re-focus with the lure, before resuming original line. When the dog gets more advanced, I will release while on the move, and mix the reward time up. I no longer do block heeling other than in run throughs or trials. All turns are practiced off two or three steps before coming to a halt. I get dog to keep focus mid turn by dropping lure mid turn. All basic heeling practice is done in large circles in each direction to let the dog think about nothing but focus and postion. I find that this helps alot with teaching balance quicker, which I estimate can take up to a year for the dog to remain evenly balanced in all directions while looking upward. Try it yourself.......it is very hard walking around and turning with your head looking straight up. They put alot of faith in where you are leading them so I always practice on nice even ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiesrule Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I use the word "biscuit" ;) so much time in the show ring and my dogs know what it means so to get his attention while heeling I whisper the word as we are walking and occasionally flip him a treat.. works wonders !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 BUMPING this. Has anyone trained heeling using the method in Morgan Spector's book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I'm trying to teach this to my pup too... He's alright in sitting while in the heel position, but taking steps is difficult! I find it hard to continuously treat him because I am so tall and he is so small!! We're getting there though!! But my back hurts! :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Paws Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I'm trying to teach this to my pup too... He's alright in sitting while in the heel position, but taking steps is difficult! I find it hard to continuously treat him because I am so tall and he is so small!! We're getting there though!! But my back hurts! :rolleyes: TerraNik, what method do you use for your training?I saw your youtube,nice work for such a young pup.Did you follow a particular method,dvd or book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 How did you teach it, and how long did it take you? * with a clicker * a very high rate of reinforcment, dog was a food vaccum for the first few paces... * then keeping the reinforcement high and clicking for all four feet on the ground head high and towards me... * gradually fade the rewards so you can heel in anywhere with minimal rewards , and only using rewards now and then to keep dog on its toes and never knowing when a reward is on the way... :rolleyes: Very similar method to this I teach the turns and positions separately. Took them hardly any time to learn the behaviour and where 'heel' was... the main time consuming factor is proofing in all situations :p video's of my guys heeling are on my youtube channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I'm trying to teach this to my pup too... He's alright in sitting while in the heel position, but taking steps is difficult! I find it hard to continuously treat him because I am so tall and he is so small!! We're getting there though!! But my back hurts! TerraNik, what method do you use for your training?I saw your youtube,nice work for such a young pup.Did you follow a particular method,dvd or book? Thank you! :rolleyes: He's a smart little boyo! For the stuff on the video, I didn't follow any particular method/book/dvd (aside from C&T)... He just kinda picked stuff up and I tailored the training to how he was learning... I guess you could say "winging it" would be the right term?!! Most of it was food lures (but he does it all now with just hand signals) or just clicking the desired behaviour when he offered it (which is how I just taught him to "wave" this afternoon! SO CUTE!). In terms of heel, I have been experimenting with stuff, but nothing is really proving to be very effective! I have tried food lure in front of him, which makes him walk forward, but obviously the attention is on the treat (did not work when I held the treat to my hip). I have tried nose-hand targeting while we walk, which works but again creates the same problem. I think I will just have to teach it in 2 steps... The first being in heel position until he gets used to walking by my side and then get the attention part of it going! Suggestions?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 TerraNik, is it position or the focus you're working on? I taught position first, then added focus later. For position, I started in a very low distraction environment (i.e. the lounge room without OH and the cats), walked around the room and shaped the behaviour by c/t when Zig got curious and ended up on my left hand side. I trained "watch" separately. When we had that sorted out I took him to the park and he forgot everything :rolleyes: so we had to start at the beginning again. Does that help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 TerraNik, is it position or the focus you're working on? I taught position first, then added focus later. For position, I started in a very low distraction environment (i.e. the lounge room without OH and the cats), walked around the room and shaped the behaviour by c/t when Zig got curious and ended up on my left hand side. I trained "watch" separately. When we had that sorted out I took him to the park and he forgot everything :rolleyes: so we had to start at the beginning again. Does that help? Yup, thank you. I think I was rushing a little with him because he has been insanely quick to pick other things up. I am going to go back to basics with him and focus on positioning. I keep forgetting that he is only 11 weeks old!!!!!!!!! Poor thing!!! Blame the handler, not the dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Jedi's a hero! I showed my partner the video and he said "Why isn't Kivi Tarro like that?", which has inspired him to get into training. KT is doing beautiful sits, downs, stands, stays, and we're in the process of teaching him touch and roll over. Our trainer is telling us to teach heel by luring backwards, then kind of turning into the dog as you go around a corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 TerraNik, is it position or the focus you're working on? I taught position first, then added focus later. For position, I started in a very low distraction environment (i.e. the lounge room without OH and the cats), walked around the room and shaped the behaviour by c/t when Zig got curious and ended up on my left hand side. I trained "watch" separately. When we had that sorted out I took him to the park and he forgot everything so we had to start at the beginning again. Does that help? Yup, thank you. I think I was rushing a little with him because he has been insanely quick to pick other things up. I am going to go back to basics with him and focus on positioning. I keep forgetting that he is only 11 weeks old!!!!!!!!! Poor thing!!! Blame the handler, not the dog Glad it helped - remember to enjoy the learning process too :rolleyes: When pup has started to work out position, try clicking and throwing the food out in front or to the side so pup has to come back and find the heel position again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Glad it helped - remember to enjoy the learning process too :rolleyes: When pup has started to work out position, try clicking and throwing the food out in front or to the side so pup has to come back and find the heel position again. Thank you - I tried heeling this afternoon with him after you had posted your suggestion. He heels very well with a food lure. I am going to try and reduce that down over a little while until he is walking by my side. Would you give a command to come back or just expect him to come back on his own? Corvus -- KT doesn't NEED to do any tricks! He is cute enough without them!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Glad it helped - remember to enjoy the learning process too :rolleyes: When pup has started to work out position, try clicking and throwing the food out in front or to the side so pup has to come back and find the heel position again. Thank you - I tried heeling this afternoon with him after you had posted your suggestion. He heels very well with a food lure. I am going to try and reduce that down over a little while until he is walking by my side. Would you give a command to come back or just expect him to come back on his own? Corvus -- KT doesn't NEED to do any tricks! He is cute enough without them!!!!!!!!! In the beginning, don't worry about a command as he doesn't know what "position" even means yet, let alone responding to a word. He needs to learn that being by your left side is very rewarding for him. That's the beauty of shaping - when he starts offering the behaviour you can introduce your command.....be patient, though - puppy is only young. My lad had the concentration span of a gnat at that age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 In the beginning, don't worry about a command as he doesn't know what "position" even means yet, let alone responding to a word. He needs to learn that being by your left side is very rewarding for him. That's the beauty of shaping - when he starts offering the behaviour you can introduce your command.....be patient, though - puppy is only young. My lad had the concentration span of a gnat at that age :rolleyes: Great, thank you so much for your help!! I'll let you know how we go! In terms of attention, Jed has his moments - I try and capture them. He gets in the 'mood' for training (often comes up to me and starts showing off a trick!) so I of course join in! But you're right - attention span is what you would expect! We do a lot of playing tug in the middle of training - it seems to keep him going! Meanwhile... I think I hijacked the thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 (edited) TerraNik, is it position or the focus you're working on? I taught position first, then added focus later. For position, I started in a very low distraction environment (i.e. the lounge room without OH and the cats), walked around the room and shaped the behaviour by c/t when Zig got curious and ended up on my left hand side. I trained "watch" separately. When we had that sorted out I took him to the park and he forgot everything :rolleyes: so we had to start at the beginning again. Does that help? There is no reason why you can't teach both position and focus at the same time. IMHO - if you teach them separate, it can give you more room for error (and a greater likelihood of your dog to gawk about)... not to mention - it gives you something else you need to fade out (the cue to get the focus). I don't start teaching proper heeling until they are at least 6mths++ as they pick it up really quick and I feel they need a little maturity to learn it and to cope with the duration as well as the build up of muscles etc to maintain the position (it's difficult - you try it! ). Focus should come naturally when teaching heel work in baby steps - don't go off walking and 'hope' that the dog comes into heel position - make sure they know where heel position is before even taking a step off.... won't take long - I promise! Keep the rewards high and coming in often. I like a dog that is able to 'find' the heel position comfortably This is the position and focus I expect before even taking a step off - I don't need to fade out any cheerleading etc. The dog is happy and knows her position well (as you can see - we still need to refine our turns) If you can ignore the annoying music - this is another clip of Miss K Edited June 3, 2008 by leopuppy04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 (edited) I just bought a book - Competition Obedience - A Balancing Act - breaks EVERYTHING down including how to teach 'power steering' type moves (in, close, out, back etc) for precise heeling. It's already helped me quite a lot. So far I've found Noah picked up the heeling aspect much quicker than he's getting "find heel". He's naturally putting his head up most of the time which is handy, I don't need/want to train 100% head up. ETA - Kinta looks great! Edited June 3, 2008 by Tess32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 I've been doing some work with Jedi now with off-lead heeling... Started using a food lure and now I only need to start with it in front of his face and then move it to my hip and he keeps heeling!! YAY!!!!!! He is holding attention when sitting in heel position and is looking at me most of the time when heeling! I am so pleased with how he is going! Mind you, this all disappears when we go outside, but that's the same with all the commands he knows!! He's getting better with his tricks and basic commands with distraction now though. I am relieved!!!! Thanks to everyone for their help!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:ange: Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 BUMP! I have a 7 month old Weimaraner puppy who I am REALLY struggling with heeling (it's me struggling not the Wei.. LOL) I have enormous trouble in getting her attention on me!! that is, head up focusing at me. She knows "look" and she knows where the heel position is. What I struggle with is keeping her attention on me. She seems food driven, but she is even more distraction driven (say a piece of fluff on the carpet :D ) same with toys. We have been doing heeling work inside in the loungeroom - the 2 attempts in the backyard have been useless - too much dirt/grass to get her nose into. She's just more interested in her nose being on the floor (which is naturally what she's been bred for) We have been to a few obedience lessons - our last one she pulled me over and made my hands bleed after taking the halti off her and then we got sent home for being 'off with the fairies' so I have been trying to get her attention on me ALOT better before returning. Any advice would be really appreciated!! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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