Recall Too Fast

[ShirleyJ]

Hi all, I am new to the forum and wanted advice from the performance people. I am probably the only person in history to complain that my recall is TOO fast. My Boxer boy was ok during CCD because the recalls were shorter but now in Novice he is getting up too much steam and is going too fast to stop and generally runs right past and then comes back. It's not that he's running away or just finishing himself, it's that he is going so fast that by the time he thinks about coming in to stop in front he's going too fast to stop. You can see him thinking "DAMN - can't stop - be back in a minute " as he looks at me as he is going flying past. I use food rewards, but he is FAST. I have tried sitting on a chair and that makes him think and comes in straight but can't take a chair into the ring with me. I am going to try walking towards him to change the distance to make him slow down some but our next trial is in a week and half and I wondered if anyone had any other ideas that I could try. I am already training him to free drop from anywhere but his drop on recall is going to be a problem because he takes so long to pull up. Any ideas would be most welcome. Thanks.

Shirley & Raferty

[helen]

I would back chain and get the sit in front solid first then gradually recall from longer and longer.

For a while when the dog is doing a recall tell him to sit well before he gets to you to give him time to slow down enough to sit in front of you, just work on the timing

Also stand with a wall/fence behind you so he can't go past you.

Edited February 26, 2008 by helen

[MonElite]

stand against a wall so the dog cant go pass you.

[MonElite]

hehehehe Helen - we must have been typing at the same time

[helen]

I think so, I went back and edited to add the wall bit LOL

[PAX]

You could try throwing a bit of food back behind him as he is almost at you, a few reps of this should have him breaking a little earlier.

Sometimes taking a step towards him and stare at the spot you wont him to sit at.

Also really heavily reward the front position so it has a very high value for him to get there.

[kelpiesrule]

Where do you have your hands when you do your recall... If you have them at your sides, put them together in front, hanging down, with the treats in them, then the dog can focus on your hands as he comes in for the recall and hopefully that will stop him from running past. My kelpies have very fast recalls and this really helps them... I just hope your not a little whisp of a thing, as they can still knock you for six if they come in too fast !! LOL Brace yourself !!!

[Paula-]

I do that when recalling my greyhound - she comes in at an absolute sprint and skids into the sit in front. Hasn't hit me yet

[ShirleyJ]

I have my hands in front full of treats and as he gets to the point of no stopping I starting waving them in the air frantically in front of him But he's a boy - what can I say - he can't multitask. He's hit me once in a short recall and knocked me back a couple of steps.

Thanks for the suggestions - I will start putting them into practice tonight at training

[Rusky]

sit in a chair against a wall treats in hand knees open then gradually move the chair forward, perfect, then stand knees open treats in hand. Use short distances and lengthen you need to perfect the sit in front. He will gradually adjust his speed rather than going straight from a short to a longer distance. Reward for the sit, forget the finish for now just do your regular finish work separately.

[dogdude]

I wouldn't use a wall, but like Pax would release and throw food behind as soon as he is almost into position. The key is teaching him to stop on his back end rather than using his forehand to do the stopping. His head must come up in order for this to be possible. Use a large visible piece of food at first.

Teaching this way will still keep the speed. Dogs can stop on a dime if they really want to.

If it was a wall that he was about to hit I could guarrantee that he would stop in time.

The food thrown behind him will bring his head up. When he is used to using his back end to stop, you can then resume normal training. If he is not right for the next trial.........simple,....scratch!! There will always be another.

[Rusky]

I wouldn't use a wall

has to use for a chair or she may get knocked over. When the recall using a wall is perfected she can move away from the wall increasing distance either standing or sitting. It is the stop and sit in front that is not working, using short distance then increasing distance will work. She can do it on the heel too, throw food, run back and call.

[dogdude]

If this was a dog that I was training, I would want it to stop quicker.....not slow down.

[Rusky]

you want the dog to stop in front not run past?

or

do you want the dog to almost get there and then turn around to pick up food?

what happens when she advances with a drop recall?

do you then get one of those tennis ball throwers full of chicken necks and chopped liver to stop the dog halfway?

[ShirleyJ]

Throwing food behind him is not an option I want to try. This dog has had two knee reconstructions on one leg and I don't want him to suddenly twist and turn - I still fear for the other leg. I guess I want him to realise his own speed and learn to adjust to the stop in front regardless of the distance. He has spent most of his life not being able to run freely and now is too fast for his own good. I am hoping with a bit more age and practice that he will be watching more and hopefully judging speed and distances better and with time and practice on the free drops that we will get the drop on recall (I still have time to work on that). Don't always have the chance to use a wall or a fence but I thought I might try a wall of chairs. I tried sitting on the chair on Monday night and it was good because it was new and made him think instead of just running madly. Walking in towards him last night was also working well - again made him think - and reinforncing the sit command when he came in helped. Thanks for all the suggestions.

[Kavik]

Zoe has come in too fast on occasion, jumped on me to slow down, landed in a sit then anticipated the finish! Very naughty and but I couldn't help but laugh - she looked so proud of herself! Normally she was pretty good though.

[dogdude]

you want the dog to stop in front not run past?

or

do you want the dog to almost get there and then turn around to pick up food?

what happens when she advances with a drop recall?

do you then get one of those tennis ball throwers full of chicken necks and chopped liver to stop the dog halfway?

Rusky

Not sure how "you" teach D.O.R...........but you do not start off by training it at full distance anyway. You can teach it by throwing food back over dogs head, or, you move to a food target placed behind your dog. When it drops, you release dog back to food target.

Dogs will always gravitate towards the reinforcement. Food placed/thrown behind will get the dog to drop quickly and not come forward. The dog should not twist and turn or break from exercise until released. But as we have just found out........its a physically unsound dog so slowing it would be the best option.

[poodlefan]

Do you use the same verbal cue for both formal (sit in front) and informal (just come here) recalls?

If you do, train a fresh cue for the formal one and take a step back.

Start the dog much closer. Get the sit in front reliable nice and close. Then add distance.

Only reward when the sit is as close and straight as you want at any distance.

And get the food out of your hands. Waving food around isn't helping.

Reward from behind you (eg. bait belt) or behind the dog (eg sending to a bait plate) when and only when he has completed the sit.

If he's never rewarded for anything other than that sit, he won't be twisting around.

My initial view is that your dog doesn't understand that the exercise is "come to me and sit straight in front".

Edited February 27, 2008 by poodlefan

[Rusky]

I tried sitting on the chair on Monday night and it was good because it was new and made him think instead of just running madly.

glad it helped

[Rusky]

you want the dog to stop in front not run past?

or

do you want the dog to almost get there and then turn around to pick up food?

what happens when she advances with a drop recall?

do you then get one of those tennis ball throwers full of chicken necks and chopped liver to stop the dog halfway?

Rusky

Not sure how "you" teach D.O.R...........but you do not start off by training it at full distance anyway. You can teach it by throwing food back over dogs head, or, you move to a food target placed behind your dog. When it drops, you release dog back to food target.

Dogs will always gravitate towards the reinforcement. Food placed/thrown behind will get the dog to drop quickly and not come forward. The dog should not twist and turn or break from exercise until released. But as we have just found out........its a physically unsound dog so slowing it would be the best option.

I was joking about the tennis ball thrower, in fact I am now thinking not a bad thing for some training, might try it for send away :rolleyes: I don't like the throwing the food behind as they twist and with a really fast dog they can damage the cruciate. I didn't know the dog was a little unsound I also didn't realise you were suggesting to slow the dog as I was. The chair will slow the dog and find a perfect position plus makes the dog think.