PomsNZ Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 10 week old pom puppy, will bite only when putting on the lead. Owner has tried to reward good behaviour, and is doing really well in other areas, but puppy has drawn blood when the lead goes on. A freind of hers put the lead on the dog today, after her warning her not too, and the pup bit hard enough to draw blood again. Shes fine when on the lead, and lets people pat her on the head and back, doesnt show any other agression, did growl a bit when picked up, but has calmed down now. Dog is fed last, waits for humans to go through doors, and owner is thrilled with the pup, apart from this real agreesive behaviour. Owner doesnt know wht else to do, she cant let this behaviour go on, does anyone have any ideas? She is really forcing the issue that the dog is not alpha, and the pup gets it, shes fine round people, other dogs, the cats, but its just when she goes to put a lead on. She has the collar on non stop, and owner has tried distraction, pup is getting better when she does it, but now shes gone backwards the owner feels, by biting the other person. Regardless whether its a pom or a 30 kg rottie, this can not be allowed to carry on and shes at a loss as to stop it. Please help, i dont know what else to suggest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leema Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 I would click and trick the putting on lead process. So rewarding perhaps the lead coming out... The lead moving towards dog... lead moving over dogs head... Lead moving over dogs head but "closer" to dog's head... ETC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Could be excitment rather then agression. My female pug gets so excited when I start putting on her lead or harness she will mouth my hands with her mouth. Does the owner tell the puppy off in a low deep growl when it starts acting like this? Or do they give a high pitched squeel? Also grabbing the puppy by the loose neck skin, like mother dogs do to their pups, might help in this situation. Maybe try a harness on the dog instead of a collar and lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony mazzeri Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 She is really forcing the issue that the dog is not alpha, and the pup gets it Could this be the problem? Alpha pack status doesn't apply until they are fully mature adults. Until then, the puppy's status is 'puppy', not 'alpha' or anything else. Maybe he's reacting defensively and scared and freaking out at whatever the 'forcing the issue of alpha' actually means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigsaw Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 You could even start with just having the lead on the floor and treating for going near the lead so positive association for the lead. I don't think I'd be trying to grab the dog while its growling it may only excite it further. I'd also be looking at the way the owner is approaching the dog and putting the lead on, the dog could well be reacting to the owner not the lead and has now generalised anyone approaching it to put a lead on. Go slowly starting with positive reinforcement of the lead on the floor would be my first step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PomsNZ Posted August 1, 2008 Author Share Posted August 1, 2008 Could this be the problem? Alpha pack status doesn't apply until they are fully mature adults. Until then, the puppy's status is 'puppy', not 'alpha' or anything else. Maybe he's reacting defensively and scared and freaking out at whatever the 'forcing the issue of alpha' actually means. sorry, it did sound rather horrid. Pup is not fed until theyve eaten, waits for them to go through the door first etc... I thought that if she was defensive and freaking out, it would be at every thing, not just that one thing they are doing. Pup is quite happy to wait till she is fed, but she is not allowed to be dominant etc. Pup is still a puppy and owner gets that she is still a baby. Forcing the issue is a bad choice of words on my behalf. But she isnt about to let pup rule the household. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PomsNZ Posted August 1, 2008 Author Share Posted August 1, 2008 You could even start with just having the lead on the floor and treating for going near the lead so positive association for the lead. I don't think I'd be trying to grab the dog while its growling it may only excite it further. I'd also be looking at the way the owner is approaching the dog and putting the lead on, the dog could well be reacting to the owner not the lead and has now generalised anyone approaching it to put a lead on. Go slowly starting with positive reinforcement of the lead on the floor would be my first step. the person doesnt live in my city, i cant say how she approaches it. i will suggest i come see how she does it. The owner is a vet nurse experienced with *bad dogs* so i would presume shed know what to do. But good suggestion, i will ask if i can come witness it. Might be something i see that she doesn't know she is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony mazzeri Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Ah, okay, my sincere apologies for misinterpreting it. I've just been hearing a lot of horror stories lately about enforcing alpha status with 'rollovers' and growling at them and such stuff being used on young puppies who don't understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Poms,first cab off the rank would be to see how the lead is actually being put on the pup.I mean the way in which the owner physically puts the lead on.Have others put the lead on and take note if the pup reacts the same way.That will tell a story.sometime's people will carry out a task with a dog in a way that spells out threat to the dog. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PomsNZ Posted August 2, 2008 Author Share Posted August 2, 2008 Poms,first cab off the rank would be to see how the lead is actually being put on the pup.I mean the way in which the owner physically puts the lead on.Have others put the lead on and take note if the pup reacts the same way.That will tell a story.sometime's people will carry out a task with a dog in a way that spells out threat to the dog. Tony Thats what i thought would be the next step, go up and see how she puts the lead on... We may be able to pick something up.. we thought it might be fear agression, where the pup is *misreading* the situation, and getting like that. I do apologise for my bad choice of words! i blame the pain meds im on.. failing that i blame it on the poms distracting me lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PomsNZ Posted August 2, 2008 Author Share Posted August 2, 2008 Ah, okay, my sincere apologies for misinterpreting it. I've just been hearing a lot of horror stories lately about enforcing alpha status with 'rollovers' and growling at them and such stuff being used on young puppies who don't understand it. Oh, i can understand your query, she doesnt do the rollover, or anything like that~ lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valby Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 I wonder if there could be some irritation near the head so that it hurts when the lead is being put on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Alpha status does not apply until the puppy is a mature adult? Where did you get that from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 (edited) Start with a vet check.. I'd be wanting to eliminate a pain reaction. Could leaving the collar on all the time be causing knots? Remove the collar, and perhaps try a slip lead that has a stopper so it can't tighten too much.. that way you can open the slip lead, and put it on without having to attach it to a collar. I'd also be working hard on pup tolerating handling.. how much is puppy handled other than to have it's lead attached? It's possible puppy is being a dominant little shite who bites when thwarted.. in which case, if the vet rules out pain, I'd be summoning a decent trainer. What some thinks is "firm" may not be getting the right message through to the pup. Alternatively, it could be a fear based reaction - you need to see what's going on. Edited August 4, 2008 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony mazzeri Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Alpha status does not apply until the puppy is a mature adult? Where did you get that from? From several books. Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell I think was one. Could be mistaken about that though. From what I recall reading, alpha status as derived from captive wolf studies does not apply to infants/juveniles. Alpha is and can only be a fully sexually mature adult. Betas and juveniles squabbling for rank amongst themselves is just that, betas and juveniles squabbling. Alphas do not squabble. If a wolf has to snarl or bite to get his way, he's not the alpha. Ergo, a dog snapping is not doing it because he thinks he is the alpha, it's because he thinks you are not. Makes sense, don't you think? PS. Sorry for hijacking the thread with alpha talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willow Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 if the pup is behaving "normally" in other day to day situations, and this behaviour only happens when the lead is put on, it sounds like she has, for whatever reason, built up a bad association with the lead.I agree with the advice posted by a couple of people here, in that she needs to learn to make positive associations with the lead, and yes, neck pain, or the fear of neck pain could be one thing (maybe her hair got caught in the clip of the lead one time and it hurt, and now she is anticipating that .....obviously I have no clue what sparked it, but that's just an example of how a tiny, seemingly insignificant event may have coloured her view of the lead) There could be a million & one reasons why she is uncomfortable with it. Is she ok with having her collar handled, without the lead being involved??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
husky princess Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 10 week old pom puppy, will bite only when putting on the lead. Owner has tried to reward good behaviour, and is doing really well in other areas, but puppy has drawn blood when the lead goes on. A freind of hers put the lead on the dog today, after her warning her not too, and the pup bit hard enough to draw blood again. Shes fine when on the lead, and lets people pat her on the head and back, doesnt show any other agression, did growl a bit when picked up, but has calmed down now. Dog is fed last, waits for humans to go through doors, and owner is thrilled with the pup, apart from this real agreesive behaviour. Owner doesnt know wht else to do, she cant let this behaviour go on, does anyone have any ideas? She is really forcing the issue that the dog is not alpha, and the pup gets it, shes fine round people, other dogs, the cats, but its just when she goes to put a lead on. She has the collar on non stop, and owner has tried distraction, pup is getting better when she does it, but now shes gone backwards the owner feels, by biting the other person. Regardless whether its a pom or a 30 kg rottie, this can not be allowed to carry on and shes at a loss as to stop it. Please help, i dont know what else to suggest! Hi PomsNZ, yes that is not something you want as she gets older and might mistakenly bite someone. But does she like going for walks with the lead or has it deter from going for walks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
je33ie Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 I'm no expert, but maybe she could try putting the lead on when the pup's really tired and going to sleep? Then just leave it on her in the house while she's sleeping. I tried brushing Geordie when she was excited and didn't get anywhere, so I had a go when she was really tired and dozing off. She now lets me brush her every day without fuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PomsNZ Posted August 9, 2008 Author Share Posted August 9, 2008 She LOVES walkies.. She will be ok if the owner does it, but if anyone goes to pat her, she gets a bit *antsy*. worse when shes tired. She said some days are great, others is like taking a step backwards. i wish i could give her a magic cure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
husky princess Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 She LOVES walkies.. She will be ok if the owner does it, but if anyone goes to pat her, she gets a bit *antsy*. worse when shes tired. She said some days are great, others is like taking a step backwards. i wish i could give her a magic cure! Hmmmm sounds like a real problem alot of dogs don't like anyone touching them but their owners. So sorry I don't have that problem thank goodness but good luck finding a resolution. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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