Cosmolo Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 The charges aren't hidden in any way different to any other product or service!! When i go to coles- they sure don't tell me that the bottle of milk i am buying for $3 only cost them 0.70 cents! With your electrician example, if i felt the cost was unreasonable, the next time i needed an electrician i would try someone else- but thats because i don't particularly care who fixes a fuse in my house. I do care who is dealing with my animals medical needs. There seems to be this thinking with some people that those who work with animals should do certain things for 'the love of it' and not be focussed on making profit. Its possible to love animals and make a profit- they're not mutually exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 It is interesting that some people do not care what the mark up is and that is a personal choice but he point of this post was to highlight that many do.I don't like making comparisons with other professions but as an example if an Electrician claimed his hourly rate was $100 and he arrived at your house to do a repair that took him 1 hour and the bill was $500 that is $100 time plus $400 for materials. Would this be acceptable? The answer is yes if you believe the material cost is reasonable. If you were then told the cost of the material to the Electrician was $50 would you still feel the same? The fact is most people have a sense of justice and fairness in our society and they resent being ripped off with hidden charges. If that was what was needed, then I'd be fine with that, because I needed to call an electrician to use his skills and expertise to do a job that I was unable to do myself. Poodle - can I ask what you are basing your mark up examples on? Are you comparing the cost of the same eye ointment from a chemist and a vet, and concluding a huge mark-up on the vets side? Without working in the industry yourself, where are you getting this information from to make these assumptions about massive mark ups? Or is it all second or third hand information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mum to Emma Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I don't get what all the fuss is about, every business charges a mark up on their stock in addition to any service/labour charges. Only a fool would mark up at a % that does not stand to make them a profit.If they mark an item up 400% so be it, I'd rather have my vet earning a nice healthy living and providing me with excellent servce and a smile , than go broke and leave me without vet care. I've worked in a vets too and the overheads are huge and the cost of the equipment required would leave most people gasping for breath And they perhaps unnecessarily dispense medications to increase that profit. No one on this board wants their animal given unnecessary medicines to improve a vet's bottom line. Yes, the equipment is very expensive. And they recoup the cost when they use that equipment. That's why an MRI for a dog is (and I can't remember exactly) about $1,800. So that argument is gone ... What people want is open and honest and voluntary disclosure. A lot of people on this board are breeders who are vet savy. They know what something is going to cost, and know what questions to ask. Most people simply have their family pet and probably would be surprised to know that their chemist can even fill a prescription for an animal. Don't you remember the days when you couldn't visit the vet without them suddenly whipping out a flea collar and slapping it on your animal, and shoving a worm tablet down their throat without bothering to ask if you'd wormed them recently? Well since the proliferation of supermarket pet care products, that profit line is out the window. Oh, and another example of a medicine sold at a wildly inflated price is Trental. $38 for 50 at the chemist, $120 for 60 at the vet. They actually had the gall to comment how expensive the medication was going to be, without suggesting there was a way I could get it cheaper!! Only research on the net led me to find out how much cheaper it would be if that drug was prescribed to ME. I'm more vet savy now too and once I know long term medication is required, will ask if I can get a script. Vets (with the exception of the eye specialist) don't readily volunteer this information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I don't really see why vets should point you in the direction of something cheaper elsewhere? No other business would do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I think it comes back to the same thing, do your reseach , know your animals and if you are unhappy with price then shop around, the alternative is not to own a pet full stop. No business that I know of tells their customer their mark up on items Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I find all this vet bashing really sad. What is the world coming to? Vet is one of the most difficult subjects to get into you. You need a higher HSC mark than you do to be a human doctor. They're not just learning about one species either - they have to learn about them all - small and large animal. Then then they go into practice, they're dealing with patients who can't talk to them and tell them what the problem is. And if that patient needs surgery, they don't get referred to a surgeon - the vet does it themselves. Soft tissue, orthapaedics, dental etc etc. Vet is one of the lowest paid professions. I'm sure there are some vets and also specialists out there earning a good living, but it's definitely not easy money. They work long hours. And often they go from work to continuing education seminars. I've lost count of emergency surgeries we've been back till late at night doing, or saturday or sunday afternoons. We don't get paid any extra for this. And what about wildlife? Who do you think pays for the care and treatment of wildlife that we fix and treat? No one. Vets also have one of the highest rate of suicide. Dealing with difficult clients who are impossible to please is probably part of the cause. That and dealing with so much heart break of not being able to save everything. So like I said before, for all of you who have such a problem with vets and how they do things and what they charge, go to uni yourself and get your own vet degree. But till you do, why not try appreciating the knowledge that inside your vets head that enables them to know how to treat and fix your animals. If you don't think what they do is invaluable, then I find that really very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) I don't get what all the fuss is about, every business charges a mark up on their stock in addition to any service/labour charges. Only a fool would mark up at a % that does not stand to make them a profit.If they mark an item up 400% so be it, I'd rather have my vet earning a nice healthy living and providing me with excellent servce and a smile , than go broke and leave me without vet care. I've worked in a vets too and the overheads are huge and the cost of the equipment required would leave most people gasping for breath And they perhaps unnecessarily dispense medications to increase that profit. No one on this board wants their animal given unnecessary medicines to improve a vet's bottom line. Yes, the equipment is very expensive. And they recoup the cost when they use that equipment. That's why an MRI for a dog is (and I can't remember exactly) about $1,800. So that argument is gone ... What people want is open and honest and voluntary disclosure. A lot of people on this board are breeders who are vet savy. They know what something is going to cost, and know what questions to ask. Most people simply have their family pet and probably would be surprised to know that their chemist can even fill a prescription for an animal. Don't you remember the days when you couldn't visit the vet without them suddenly whipping out a flea collar and slapping it on your animal, and shoving a worm tablet down their throat without bothering to ask if you'd wormed them recently? Well since the proliferation of supermarket pet care products, that profit line is out the window. Oh, and another example of a medicine sold at a wildly inflated price is Trental. $38 for 50 at the chemist, $120 for 60 at the vet. They actually had the gall to comment how expensive the medication was going to be, without suggesting there was a way I could get it cheaper!! Only research on the net led me to find out how much cheaper it would be if that drug was prescribed to ME. I'm more vet savy now too and once I know long term medication is required, will ask if I can get a script. Vets (with the exception of the eye specialist) don't readily volunteer this information. And what about the GA for the animal while its having the MRI? And the monitoring equipment? And the skills of the specialist to decipher the images? That's not worth anything to you? If you go back and actually read the rest of the thread, you'll see that vets aren't actually allowed to write scripts for medication unless there is no veterinary equivalent. Those who do, are risking their careers. Edited June 7, 2009 by stormie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mum to Emma Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I don't really see why vets should point you in the direction of something cheaper elsewhere? No other business would do that. Because they should be working in the best interests of themselves AND the animal. A lot of animals are put down or dumped because owner's cannot afford the ongoing medical care. Other businesses DO do that! I work for a major international law firm and we regularly tell new clients to go to smaller firms because we can't do the work in a way that would be economical to them. We could "screw" a client thousands for a debt collection, but don't. We tell them to go to a debt collection firm who can do the job quickly efficiently and economically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mum to Emma Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 If you go back and actually read the rest of the thread, you'll see that vets aren't actually allowed to write scripts for medication unless there is veterinary equivalent. Those who do, are risking their careers. I think you mean unless there "isn't" a veterinary equivalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodle3081 Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) It is interesting that some people do not care what the mark up is and that is a personal choice but he point of this post was to highlight that many do.I don't like making comparisons with other professions but as an example if an Electrician claimed his hourly rate was $100 and he arrived at your house to do a repair that took him 1 hour and the bill was $500 that is $100 time plus $400 for materials. Would this be acceptable? The answer is yes if you believe the material cost is reasonable. If you were then told the cost of the material to the Electrician was $50 would you still feel the same? The fact is most people have a sense of justice and fairness in our society and they resent being ripped off with hidden charges. If that was what was needed, then I'd be fine with that, because I needed to call an electrician to use his skills and expertise to do a job that I was unable to do myself. Poodle - can I ask what you are basing your mark up examples on? Are you comparing the cost of the same eye ointment from a chemist and a vet, and concluding a huge mark-up on the vets side? Without working in the industry yourself, where are you getting this information from to make these assumptions about massive mark ups? Or is it all second or third hand information? As stated in an earlier reply I have friends in the industry. I note that no one has disputed the quoted cost price figures to Vets. Edited June 7, 2009 by poodle3081 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicestman77 Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) I don't really see why vets should point you in the direction of something cheaper elsewhere? No other business would do that. I always point my customers in the right direction for cheaper clippers, if I see them, my concern is for my customer, not my pocket. That is why I am called the nicestman77 I have high principles. Edited June 7, 2009 by nicestman77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 It is interesting that some people do not care what the mark up is and that is a personal choice but he point of this post was to highlight that many do.I don't like making comparisons with other professions but as an example if an Electrician claimed his hourly rate was $100 and he arrived at your house to do a repair that took him 1 hour and the bill was $500 that is $100 time plus $400 for materials. Would this be acceptable? The answer is yes if you believe the material cost is reasonable. If you were then told the cost of the material to the Electrician was $50 would you still feel the same? The fact is most people have a sense of justice and fairness in our society and they resent being ripped off with hidden charges. If that was what was needed, then I'd be fine with that, because I needed to call an electrician to use his skills and expertise to do a job that I was unable to do myself. Poodle - can I ask what you are basing your mark up examples on? Are you comparing the cost of the same eye ointment from a chemist and a vet, and concluding a huge mark-up on the vets side? Without working in the industry yourself, where are you getting this information from to make these assumptions about massive mark ups? Or is it all second or third hand information? As stated in an earlier reply I have friends in the industry. I note that no one has disputed the quoted cost price figures to Vets. which cost price figures??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 If you go back and actually read the rest of the thread, you'll see that vets aren't actually allowed to write scripts for medication unless there is no veterinary equivalent. Those who do, are risking their careers. I think you mean unless there "isn't" a veterinary equivalent. Yes, if you have a look, you will see I edited my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I don't really see why vets should point you in the direction of something cheaper elsewhere? No other business would do that. Because they should be working in the best interests of themselves AND the animal. A lot of animals are put down or dumped because owner's cannot afford the ongoing medical care. Other businesses DO do that! I work for a major international law firm and we regularly tell new clients to go to smaller firms because we can't do the work in a way that would be economical to them. We could "screw" a client thousands for a debt collection, but don't. We tell them to go to a debt collection firm who can do the job quickly efficiently and economically. PTS or abandon is an OWNER choice. Vets are there to provide a professional service to those who can afford to have an animal and want to treat that animal. It would be nice to think that have some form of moral obligation to treat every animal at cost price and go bankrupt in the process, but this is the real world and it's a job that they have the right to be paid for and make a profit from , just like any other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Poodle - can I ask what you are basing your mark up examples on? Are you comparing the cost of the same eye ointment from a chemist and a vet, and concluding a huge mark-up on the vets side? Without working in the industry yourself, where are you getting this information from to make these assumptions about massive mark ups? Or is it all second or third hand information? stormie - its coming from her friends who happily load the bills of clients they don't like. A lot of people on this board are breeders who are vet savy. They know what something is going to cost, and know what questions to ask. Most people simply have their family pet and probably would be surprised to know that their chemist can even fill a prescription for an animal. Actually most on this board are not breeders but just pet owners who seem to have the common sense to be able to ask questions of their vet re cost of medication. I do not care if my vet marks up medication - if it means that he can continue to provide me with service then so be it. Poodle3081 - I can't comment on vet prices but I note that you have ignored my example of the price of cup of coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Other businesses DO do that! I work for a major international law firm and we regularly tell new clients to go to smaller firms because we can't do the work in a way that would be economical to them. We could "screw" a client thousands for a debt collection, but don't. We tell them to go to a debt collection firm who can do the job quickly efficiently and economically. Major international law firm - did not realise there were any of those (jurisdictional/ different legal system issues and all). What you tell clients is part of your professional obligation on costs disclosure. You are required (by law) to disclose your costs. The client can still instruct you to do the work or go elsewhere. No comparison between lawyers and vets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodle3081 Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Other businesses DO do that! I work for a major international law firm and we regularly tell new clients to go to smaller firms because we can't do the work in a way that would be economical to them. We could "screw" a client thousands for a debt collection, but don't. We tell them to go to a debt collection firm who can do the job quickly efficiently and economically. Major international law firm - did not realise there were any of those (jurisdictional/ different legal system issues and all). What you tell clients is part of your professional obligation on costs disclosure. You are required (by law) to disclose your costs. The client can still instruct you to do the work or go elsewhere. No comparison between lawyers and vets... You seemed lack continuity in your case for vet charges. You want me to reply re a cup of coffee and the claim there is no comparison between a vet and lawyer. I would think there is more in common with a lawyer who has similar professional charges than to a cafe operation. But I will reply to your coffee example. The cafe does not charge me for sitting at the table, there is no hourly charge and their entire profit comes from the products they sell. I know when I stay at a hotel the prices of goods in the mini bar are marked up excessively. I have a choice to buy or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mum to Emma Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Other businesses DO do that! I work for a major international law firm and we regularly tell new clients to go to smaller firms because we can't do the work in a way that would be economical to them. We could "screw" a client thousands for a debt collection, but don't. We tell them to go to a debt collection firm who can do the job quickly efficiently and economically. Major international law firm - did not realise there were any of those (jurisdictional/ different legal system issues and all). What you tell clients is part of your professional obligation on costs disclosure. You are required (by law) to disclose your costs. The client can still instruct you to do the work or go elsewhere. No comparison between lawyers and vets... To clarify (since I obviously need to) an international law firm has offices in a number of countries <sigh>. The people I'm taking about are those who get the firm's name from the phone book and call up unannounced. That's long before the engagement letter stage which includes full cost disclosure and estimate of total fees. Clients only receive that once we agree to take on the matter. Perhaps vets should be forced to disclose their costs and charges too, eh? At least make them readily available without the client having to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) Other businesses DO do that! I work for a major international law firm and we regularly tell new clients to go to smaller firms because we can't do the work in a way that would be economical to them. We could "screw" a client thousands for a debt collection, but don't. We tell them to go to a debt collection firm who can do the job quickly efficiently and economically. Major international law firm - did not realise there were any of those (jurisdictional/ different legal system issues and all). What you tell clients is part of your professional obligation on costs disclosure. You are required (by law) to disclose your costs. The client can still instruct you to do the work or go elsewhere. No comparison between lawyers and vets... To clarify (since I obviously need to) an international law firm has offices in a number of countries <sigh>. The people I'm taking about are those who get the firm's name from the phone book and call up unannounced. That's long before the engagement letter stage which includes full cost disclosure and estimate of total fees. Clients only receive that once we agree to take on the matter. Perhaps vets should be forced to disclose their costs and charges too, eh? At least make them readily available without the client having to ask. A vet will disclose their costs and charges - just ask them. I have never had an issue when I have asked my vet and he is more than happy to tell me. In fact, many times he has even told me unprompted. There is a significant difference to costs disclosure for lawyers and vets - even at the telephone consult stage and apply whether you are at Deacons or a small suburban practice <sigh> Edited June 7, 2009 by Danois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 It's the customers responsibility to ask the price not just jump in feet first and whinge about the price later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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